So it's the argument on subjectivity again. Alright, I'm game.
Well, it's either stay on neutral ground with subjectivity as the topic for consideration, or slather on the Bible verses and references, which correct me if I'm wrong, but as an atheist, I'm sure you don't really care for that.
Like I said earlier, you can argue about whether my ideas of particular rational judgments are right. Obviously my understanding of rationality has been formed in my mind and all knowledge originates in the human mind. However, it doesn't imply that I have to consider everyone equally right unless they can provide me with some reasoning I find plausible.
Right, and that happens on a daily basis with people. Factors like bias, favoring, prejudice, all of that comes into play, even if we are trying to kid ourselves. Often people make assumptions based on patterns and memories they've seen before. They may not always be right, but experience tells them the probability of certain events happening usually follow certain conditions.
After all, if we adhere to all-out subjectivism, I hope you realize that anyone could also dismiss your arguments with a simple "I disagree" in full legitimacy. You say that religious dogmas offer legit knowledge? Anyone could throw it right back at you. That wouldn't be much of a debate.
Bingo, that's pretty much the reality of the situation. I mean, I could argue the Bible as fact until I'm blue in the face, but in the end, it's your call to accept that or just feel it's pure poppycock. You know how you feel in your heart and in their end, it's your perspective and your perception on it. Sure, outside influences are always surrounding you, but in the end, you decide what is accepted and what is dismissed. And that differs from everyone else.
So could you tell more specifically about what evidence has lead you to believe in Christianity in particular? There are countless religions out there. If in your judgment there's no less evidence of Zeus or Thor, for example, why don't you believe in them as well?
Christianity seems the most logical to me. I believe in God because given the nature of the world, the planets, and the entire universe, something of that extreme expanse is the work of a divine creator, planner, engineer, and architect. I look at the world, its oceans, forests, mountains, skies, and all of the interesting creatures that inhabit it, and I see that as the work of a divine creator, the same way that an artist or sculptor creates their work with aspects like balance, symmetry, and creativity, but on an incredibly large scale that takes balance, ingenuity, and meticulous construction. Even planets that have no living creatures on them are all still unique, whether it's Saturn with its signature orbiting rings, or the gigantic Jupiter with its myriad of mixing gasses that in turn create an object of fascination, very much like art. To me, all this couldn't have possibly been accidental or coincidence. I appreciate all of these as God's miracles and creations, because mankind, even with all of our technology and knowledge, still can't even come close to replicating such creations, and we've barely even scratched the surface when it comes to exploring the entirety of the universe.
Why do I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God and the savior? There's plenty of evidence of Jesus walking the earth and teaching others, and I find the multiple gospels, eyewitness accounts, and the wisdom in the Bible are inspiring and assure a message of peace, hope, and friendship. I also feel Jesus Christ taught a message of real strength: To love your enemy even when they hate you. To be generous to even a thief, and not to seek wealth or materialism, but to live a humble life in peace and friendship the way he did. If everyone did that, there would be no war, no hate, and no greed. And to do that is extremely hard, but to me, given the miracles he performed and the fact he lived among the poor and humble even when he could have easily lived in splendor and power, that takes incredible, heroic and admirable strength and heart. Given his selfless sacrifice to destroy sin and give us a second chance at salvation, that's something I find admirable and is someone I can believe in.
Last October, my mother passed away from cancer. We were gathered around her deathbed in her last few moments of life, but before she passed away, I saw a brief, short vision of her rising from her bed, looking anew, relieved, and alive again, so much so that I looked up totally in shock and awe, but then I saw it was just that. A vision, but it gave me comfort in a way despite the extreme grief I was facing. Now, you may consider that a daydream or a hallucination, but here's the kicker of the story.
My brother and sister, who were gathered around her deathbed at the same time, had the EXACT SAME VISION. That, to me, could not have possibly been just a coincidence.
As another instance, it was late at night and I was closing things down to head to sleep, and I looked toward the chair where my mom spent her time taking an afternoon nap or having a casual family discussion. Right where the chair was, there was this unusual glimmer of light that should have been impossible at that hour. Now, you could say it was from something outside, or maybe an eye trick, but then I would return the same question and say why would it be right there, so soon after she had passed away?
So yeah, take all that as you'd like, but to me, all of that affirms my faith. You may see things differently, but to me, that's more than enough evidence. Also, I know you're an atheist and don't feel the same way, but please, out of respect for a loss that was extremely close and personal to me, don't nitpick all that. I even had trouble typing that out. You asked why and that's my answer. Please, let's just leave it at that.
Agnosticism is not like that at all. If you don't have sufficient evidence to make a judgment, you should openly admit that you don't know. If you don't have evidence of God's existence, why don't you just admit that you don't know whether he exists? I don't have to provide 100 % certain evidence (if such a thing even exists) that God doesn't exist to question whether he exists. If you claim that God exists, the burden of proof is on you.
Even without sufficient evidence to make a judgment, eventually you will have to come to a decision. And yes, running out of time is also a decision. If the building is on fire and you're not sure whether to try climbing out the window or make a break for the stairs, well, you don't have much time, and even though you question the safety and chance of survival of both options, you have to decide even without evidence to confirm the outcome, nature, and circumstances of the decision you're faced with. It's more of a matter of making a choice given what you have to work with as opposed to striving for a clear-cut confirmation.
And hey, it's that familiar burden of proof statement! I was wondering when that was going to show up. Hello there, I was ready for ya.
Pointing back to what I said before, it depends on the person and what they personally feel is enough proof (gotcha!). For some, the Bible itself is enough proof. For others, they don't believe until they have a brush with death, or possibly a situation where they were clinically dead for a while and were revitalized. For others, it may be not until they pass away or the second coming of Christ, and only when they are a firsthand eyewitness will they believe. And everything in between. In your perspective, you simply haven't seen enough. I don't know when you will, if you will, nor do I know what exactly it would take. Same thing goes for John Doe if he's an atheist/agnostic person, or Sam who believes in an entirely different religion. That's pretty much the reality of the situation, take it as you please.
I find hope and inner peace poor criteria for the truth. A man can find hope and inner peace in thinking that he is Alexander the Great; it doesn't mean that he actually is.
Well, again, that's going on the basis of what you personally think is rational and what I think is rational. Again, you're entitled to your opinion, but hey, just know that's still an opinion and not a universal truth everyone can accept. To each his own in this situation. You may think my beliefs are nonsense, and okay, again, you're entitled to your opinion, but in the end, I'm entitled to my own opinion too. That's just how things work.
