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Remainder Of Paul’s Best Team

Discussion in 'Animé Polls' started by Genaller, Sep 9, 2018.

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Which 2 Pokémon would form the remainder of Paul’s best team?

  1. Aggron

    20.0%
  2. Froslass

    53.3%
  3. Gastrodon

    6.7%
  4. Gliscor

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Hariyama

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Honchkrow

    20.0%
  7. Magmortar

    53.3%
  8. Nidoking

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. Ninjask

    33.3%
  10. Weavile

    6.7%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Genaller

    Genaller May 16th 2016 - October 12th 2019

    As all of you know Paul was Ash’s rival in Sinnoh and had around the same expereince as him as a trainer. When making a hypothetical “best team” for him it is nearly unanimously agreed on that Electivire, Torterra, Drapion and Ursaring would be on that team; however, the remaining 2 slots are far more debatable. Which 2 Pokémon do you think should make the cut based on factors like on-screen feats, hype, team synergy etc...?
     
  2. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Standby for Battle!

    1.Honchkrow/Magmortar

    2.Nidoking/Hariyama/Gliscor

    3.Aggron/Froslass/Ninjask/Gastrodon

    4.Weavile
     
  3. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Standby for Battle!

    There's no debating on whose the strongest for the final 2 of Paul's best team,it's Magmortar and Honchkrow.They're stronger and more durable compared to the others on this list,pokemon like Froslass,Weavile,Gastrodon,and Ninjask would be dead weight if you placed some of them in with the likes of Torterra,Electivire,Drapion,and Ursaring.

    Froslass,Aggron,Gastrodon,and Ninjask are decent battlers that are really good to use for strategy purposes but they are not juggernauts/tanks that are capable of consistently taking out 2-3 pokemon in full battles as well as taking a lot of damage without fainting.

    Honchkrow's Haze eliminates all status changes on the battlefield,Sky Attack and Night Slash can cause an opponent to flinch and can increase the chances of a critical hit when used multiple times,Super Luck increases the critical hit ratio.

    Magmortar's Rock Tomb is good for defending against attacks as well as doing a surprise attack.Attacking Magmortar with physical moves can cause the opponent to get burned.Smog has a chance of poisoning the opponent,Will-O-Wisp can inflict burn damage on the opponent.

    Honchkrow/Magmar in mid DP swept through gym leader Maylene's pokemon,Honchkrow easily defeated Ash's Turtwig/Grotle on two different ocassions,KOed a previous champion's Dragonite in a Pokeringer contest and shrugged off blows from Ash's Staraptor's Close Combat.Magmortar took a Quick Attack/Iron Tail and a Aqua Jet from Ash's Pikachu/Buizel without fainting in one battle and took a Hydro Cannon from Barry's Empoleon without fainting in another battle.

    Aggron and Ninjask got taken out by one Mach Punch,it only took one Iron Tail and one Volt Tackle to take out Froslass.All it took was an Elekid to take out Ninjask and get captured by Paul.If you truly believe Magmortar/Honchkrow aren't capable of doing what Ninjask/Froslass/Gastrodon/Aggron did and more then you're a f*cking idiot blind sheep and need to do more research.

    https://forums.serebii.net/threads/pauls-best-strongest-team.660816/

    https://forums.serebii.net/threads/pauls-unbeatable-team.464010/

    https://forums.serebii.net/threads/pauls-choice-of-pokemon.462083/
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018
  4. blizzardblaze

    blizzardblaze Comp. Battler Who loves The Anime

    But you need not only brute force with powerhouses like those, but speed and defense.
     
  5. 345ash-greninja

    345ash-greninja Leader Of The Dai-Gurren

    Ninjask and Froslass are stronger than Magmortar and Honchkrow because of the simple facts: a) Their efforts/how well they fought against far stronger oppenents compared to Magmortar and Honchkrow, and b) Paul considered them worthy of using in his rivalry climax battle with Ash, a a battle of extremely high stakes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
    Ash-Pikachu and blizzardblaze like this.
  6. blizzardblaze

    blizzardblaze Comp. Battler Who loves The Anime

    Also, it was to switch things up since Ash probably expected the same old Pokemon such as Magmortar and Torterra, so he brought in the Pokemon that Ash didn't know about.
     
    345ash-greninja and Genaller like this.
  7. Genaller

    Genaller May 16th 2016 - October 12th 2019

    Yeah I need to set things straight. I’m not going to try convincing PBF though I do feel the need to illustrate where he’s implementing bad reasoning and/or making factually incorrect statements. The following post is addressed to PAD readers in general rather than just PBF.

    Let’s start here since the first 2 paras are just PBF making a bunch of assertions without justication and the next 2 paras are just factual descriptions of Honchkrow and Magmortar’s (H&M’s) skill set. The problem with using this statement to establish H&M’s superiority is that we know for a fact that Maylene was completely out of sync with her Pokémon at the time hence the Maylene Paul faced was far weaker than the Maylene Ash faced. In case there’s still any doubt as to the credibility of this feat Paul flat-out states that Maylene was the weakest gym leader he had ever faced, so Paul himself thought nothing of that battle. In conclusion H&M’s feats in that battle practically mean nothing.

    There’s nothing impressive about easily KOing a Pokémon that had battle style and emotional issues respectively.
    Wow the previous “champion” of a small town competition... how is that meant to be impressive? Okay now he’s just being factually wrong; Brock confirms that Staraptor’s Close Combat was dealing major damage on Honchkrow, so Honchkrow most certainly wasn’t merely “shrugging-off” Close Combat. PBF also conveniently excludes mentioning that Honchkrow couldn’t finish off Staravia/Staraptor despite landing several blows. It’s very clear that Staraptor was at least competitive with Honchkrow (didn’t get taken out after getting hit by several attacks with the intent to KO and dealt significant damage with its own attacks) which like or not does provide an upper bound for Honchkrow’s battle viability.

    I’ll admit it’s comparatively more difficult to rate Magmortar. For starters Magmortar lucked out thanks to Pikachu getting burnt right at the start which a) lowered his Attack power and b) stopped Pikachu from building battle momentum since he had to frequently deal with crippling burn damage. With this in mind I’ll admit that blocking Volt Tackle with Rock Tomb was still impressive; however, due to b) Pikachu wasn’t able to follow up with subsequent attacks after getting the upper hand on Magmortar on 2 separate occasions (the first was after hitting Magmortar with counter-shield Thunderbolt and the 2nd was after hitting it with Iron Tail; Pikachu won both of those move interactions but couldn’t make much of it due to burn damage constantly getting in the way). My point is hat I don’t think we can conclude from that battle that Magmortar was even necessarily better than Pikachu (and of course that Pikachu was nowhere near his peak). Magmortar did seem to have the upper hand against Buizel though it’s not like Buizel is all that impressive himself (without Ice Aqua Jet and/or Swift Swim). Also tanking counter-shield Thunderbolt (which actually does less damage than regular Thunderbolt since counter-shield isn’t exclusively focused on offense) and Iron Tail from a Pikachu with lowered attack power + Aqua Jet from Buizel isn’t exactly what I’d call a great tanking feat.

    As for vs Barry. Barry himself implies that Skarmory’s primary job in that battle was to set-up Spikes; however, Ash and Brock did seem impressed that Skarmory got OHKed and Barry probably wouldn’t want to use a Pokémon that was too weak against his idol, so I don’t mind giving the benefit of doubt here and saying that the feat was meant to at least be somewhat impressive (worthy of a B or “tier 2” rating). Now against Empoelon yeah it tanked Hydrocannon though Pignite tanked Samaroutt‘s Hydrocannon after sustaining both damage and fatigue from facing Hydreigon and Ferrathorn in vs Cameron. Yeah Empleon is probably stronger (though I doubt it’s substantially better), but it’s still worth keeping in mind. What’s particularly interesting is that Paul only chose to switch after Magmortar got struck by Hydrocannon. If Paul merely switched out due to type match-up then he should have done so immediately after Empoelon entered the battlefield. My interpretation here is that Paul wanted to see how well Magmortar could handle attacks from Empoelon, so that he could then decide whether switching and taking damage from Spikes was worth it. Since Paul does switch we can conclude that Paul considered enduring the cost of Spikes damage being a better course of action then having Magmortar stay in battle which does seem to indicate that he doesn’t seem to think Magmortar could’ve beaten Empoelon 1 vs 1. Since Empoleon did have type advantage this doesn’t mean that Magmortar necessarily was outright worse though at the same time it’s a stretch to claim that Magmortar was outright better since it doesn’t have any feats to warrant that conclusion. While Magmortar’s case is far more debatable than Honchkrow’s (who has no business being anywhere near Paul’s TOP 6), I don’t think it has a feat warranting a B+ rating where I have the likes of Froslass and Ninjask placed due to their feats.

    Factually incorrect; it took Thunderbolt + Mach Punch (from Ash’s 2 Best Pokémon in that battle) to take out Aggron and Ninjask took a game changing underground Flare Blitz + a Mach Punch after concentrating. PBF again conveniently excludes the fact that Aggron and Ninjask were able to force Pikachu (who later while weakened was competitive with Base Electivire) and Gliscor (who later dealt the majority of the damage in taking out Drapion) respectively to retreat.

    Yeah... and? Froslass still made Pikachu struggle and that same Pikachu went on to fight Base Electivire competitively. Froslass would’ve also been far more deadly had she faced a Poisoned foe due to her incredible evasion skill.

    All it took was a fairly weak Chimchar at the time (compared to how strong Ash made it) to catch Ursaring... so what? We can safely assume that every Pokémon Paul caught got stronger thanks to his intense training regiment.

    No it’s more like PBF is throwing a temper tantrum because other people aren’t just blindly agreeing with his views and are actually looking at the evidence presented in the show.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
    Ash-Pikachu and 345ash-greninja like this.
  8. keepitsimple

    keepitsimple Marth

    Froslass and Magmortar probably.

    except the part in bold taken to its actual conclusion would mean aggron and gastrodon are stronger than ursaring and torterra because he considered them more worthy of using in that battle. unless you would accept that they are, using it as a reason for why Ninjask is better than Magmortar doesn't work
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018
    Dragalge and Genaller like this.
  9. blizzardblaze

    blizzardblaze Comp. Battler Who loves The Anime

    Also @Genaller, it could just be bias for Paul.
     
  10. Genaller

    Genaller May 16th 2016 - October 12th 2019

    Well I mean they are all Paul’s Pokémon, so a bias for Paul shouldn’t change how you’d rate his Pokémon. Maybe he has a bias for Honckrow (can’t get enough of that dark fat juicy bird ;)).
     
    blizzardblaze likes this.
  11. blizzardblaze

    blizzardblaze Comp. Battler Who loves The Anime

    Lemme rephrase, maybe it's a bias for Pokemon that only got one battle and Honchkrow. I really don't see how Hariyama and nidoking did any good against brandon, even with the type advantage. he destroyed them all because Paul wasn't going for strategy, just brute force. Ash managed to win with a combo.
     
    Genaller likes this.
  12. Aduro

    Aduro Mt.BtlMaster

    Feats: Gastrodon and Magmortar. Maylene's Lucario and Ash's Staraptor were no jokes. And that magmortar was a very bulky boy.
    Frankly Paul's Honchkrow's main feats revolved around taking out Grotle, the biggest joke of Ash's sinnoh team. Ninjask's best feats were in annoyance and defence, but Froslass had those traits along with more powerful offense. So Honchkrow and Froslass are a close third and fourth respectively.

    Hype: Magmortar and Honchkrow. Honch was setup as a total monster in the poke ringer competition and was quite manueverable for a bulkier flying type. Magmortar was the mon Paul chose as a substitute for Chimchar, it caused Maylene PTSD.

    Team Synergy: Electivire, Torterra, Ursaring and Drapion... they don't actually share many weaknesses. Magmortar is probably the 5th strongest, which gives them three ground weaknesses. So he should throw in either Honchkrow or Froslass. Froslass would be better since it can deal with fighting types for Ursaring and dragon types which resist Torterra and Electivire. Plus he already has at least four really bulky pokemon.

    One thing is for certain. Its not his freaking stupid special weavile. I'm pretty amazed he didn't release it after losing to Staraptor.
     
  13. 345ash-greninja

    345ash-greninja Leader Of The Dai-Gurren

    Except that Reggie made it more or less clear why Paul used Aggron and Gastrodon in that fight. By using those 2 Pokemon of him Paul wanted to unveil Ash's strategy/reveal the lineup Ash's gonna use in that battle. For we all know, if Paul revealed early on that he was using 2 of his major powerhouses like Torterra and Ursaring, Ash could've come up with a strategy to counter them, since he battled them before. Paul knew that Ash brought many of his reserves back in the Sinnoh League, so he had a wide range of Pokemon in his arsenal. Paul's had to be sure about what strategy + what lineup Ash was gonna use for that battle.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
  14. blizzardblaze

    blizzardblaze Comp. Battler Who loves The Anime

    Ash also had no idea Paul had these Pokemon, and so did the viewers(excluding Ninjask) for Froslass, Drapion, and Gastrodon
     
  15. keepitsimple

    keepitsimple Marth

    lol that doesn't make any sense. there's no reason why he couldn't have done that with torterra or ursaring if he just used them differently so if Aggron and Gastrodon are weaker why bother using them? Aggron only forced one return anyway so it's not like he even did his job well

    either his use of his pokemon in the league battle against ash justifies them all being in his top 6 or it doesn't
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
  16. 345ash-greninja

    345ash-greninja Leader Of The Dai-Gurren

    Aggron and Gastrodon both forced a recall so they together did a good job in revealing 4 Pokemon of Ash's lineup in that fight. Ash had a wide range of Pokemon in his arsenal during Sinnoh League due to the reserves he brought back in the League, about many of which Paul didn't have any knowledge about. With all that, is it really that difficult for Ash to come up with a counter strategy if Paul send out Torterra and Ursaring at the beginning of the battle, 2 Pokemon which Ash has seen and battled multiple times before?

    Using 2 Pokemon about whom Ash didn't know much about/didn't battle before (yeah he he saw Aggron as a Lairon in the Brandon battle but it got knocked out so quickly that Ash hardly got to know much about it) is a better ploy of revealing someone's lineup in a battle. Paul very likely would have thought about all this because he's one of the best pre-planners in the history of Pokemon battlers we have seen in the anime.
     
    keepitsimple likes this.
  17. keepitsimple

    keepitsimple Marth

    I can see where you're coming from but whether he battled them before or not, I don't think it should make much of a difference. Like even in that league battle, Ash was even seen falling for previous strategies that Paul has used against him before. Pikachu using Iron Tail or whatever to block Thunderpunch from Electivire while leaving the other arm free comes to mind
     
  18. Ash-Pikachu

    Ash-Pikachu Well-Known Member

    Ninjask and Frosslass come to mind. Because of their incredible evasion, they're easily able to oustall their opponent after being poisoned by Drapion's Toxic Spikes, Ursurang for his ability to stay strong after battling several pokemon, and Torterra who can stall via Giga Drain. Paul benefits more from these two because they synergize with the rest of his team the best who're mainly powerhouses in need of speed.

    Not only that but they certainly have the feats to prove it. Ninjask literally ragdolled Gliscor leaving him significantly exhausted to the point where recalling him against Drapion caused him to flinch before the battle had begun. It then continued to battle Ash's ace, almost blitzed him despite being crippled by the underground, super-effective Flare Blitz, and left Infernape visibly exhausted. Magmortar in comparison one-shots a pokemon with no notable features due to type advantage and is immediately recalled after being left in the battle a few seconds with Barry's ace who is evidently inferior to Infernape and yet somehow Magmortar is better at sweeping than Ninjask is lol? Featswise, Ninjask is stronger.

    Let us not forget that Frosslass stayed and battled competitively with Pikachu for a few minutes and inflicted a couple hits that staggered Pikachu both times and Pikachu whilst exhausted could compete with Electivire astonishingly well without electric type moves. Said Electivire beat Empoleon decisively who crapped on Magmortar.

    Don't get me started with Honchkrow. It lost to Staraptor who has no business being in the same room with Infernape, Gliscor, and Pikachu which both Ninjask and Frosslass could actually compete with.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
  19. ash&charizardfan

    ash&charizardfan Humanity's greatest soldier

    In addition to that, magmar couldn't even scratch registeel with flamethrower and got afraid of it during match with brandon same registeel who was brught to knees by ash's probably considered weakest fire type torkoal, I have never understood the hype behind magmortar I think it was around aggron's level. Hunchkrow on the other hand could be considered as his 5th strongest since hw caught it in different region and was with him from the start of sinnoh and had experience and it evolved in early period of sinnoh.
     
  20. 345ash-greninja

    345ash-greninja Leader Of The Dai-Gurren

    Well Staraptor was going toe to toe with Honchkrow and going by feats Staraptor is likely Ash's weakest DP Mon, so TBH Honchkrow doesn't really have any buisness being in Paul top 6 (else it would have overwhelmed Staraptor easily). We honestly also can't really confirm whether Honchkrow truly has more experience than the likes of Froslass, Nidoking, Hariyama, etc. or not since we have no idea when Paul caught it as a Murkrow.
     

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