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Reshiram used V-Create! Wait, WHAT??

Discussion in 'Older Gen RMT' started by loco1234, Jan 3, 2013.

  1. loco1234


    Balanced Hackmons is FUN. It's something I decided to try COMPLETELY on a whim (temporarily halting my Monotype project, but oh well), but I'm glad I did. Anything can do anything! Well, almost anything anyway. Pure/Huge Power, Arena Trap, Shadow Tag, Wonder Guard and OHKO moves are illegal ('cause think about it. Deoxys-S, No Guard, Sheer Cold, Scarf. No Sturdy, next to no chance). This leads to some really cool possibilities that are obscenely fun to abuse. Like the aforementioned V-Create Reshiram. With Contrary. And Leaf Storm. And everything gets 252 EVs in all stats too. Which pretty much just makes everything a lot bulkier. Oh yeah, and the usual clauses do not exist, so Spore goes from being a great move to one of the best there is.


    Deoxys-S @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Turboblaze
    Jolly Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    - Spore
    - Magic Coat
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock

    Everyone leads some form of Deoxys-S or another and for good reason. If it can do anything you want it to, why not use the fastest Pokemon in the game? This set is complete Taunt bait but given most leads are Deoxys-S and they don't seem to run Taunt much, I win there. Lum Berry is by far the most popular item in Balanced Hackmons because Prankster Spore exists at least once on just about every team. Although Magic Coat's a kind of joke's-on-you for them. Deoxys's 3 most common abilities also form a kind of Rock/Paper/Scissors game in that Mold Breaker and its equivalents beat Magic Bounce, Magic Bounce beats Prankster and Prankster beats Mold Breaker. I've used Turboblaze because the message is not as clear as with Mold Breaker and because I like it better than Teravolt. No, I do not show favoritism to abilities in anyokaymaybeIdo=P. I learned after about two matches that hazards are practically a necessity in this tier. Most of the matches I've played thus far have been decided by hazards. Because of this, Deoxys carries Rocks and Spikes as well. It's pretty easy to get them up seeing as with 252 HP, Def and SpD EVs Deoxys is bulky enough to not get OHKOed by most things in the tier. It is 2HKOed by a lot, but I can still get some hazards up before that happens.


    Groudon @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Prankster
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    - Heart Swap
    - Nature Power
    - Spore
    - Recover

    Remember how I said just about every team has a Prankster Spore user? Here's mine. Groudon's got one major role in Balanced Hackmons: checking Contrary abusers. I run one, and so do a lot of other people. They're seriously dangerous, but an Imposter blob (Chansey is 1.5 times better than Blissey for that, but I've seen both) can do that as well. Groudon can also check said Imposter blobs though - Priority Spore puts 'em to sleep (and only Blissey can carry a Lum Berry to counter it - Chansey needs Eviolite), Priority Heart Swap steals their boosts and Priority Nature Power (Read as: Priority Earthquake, which is completely awesome) destroys all non-Levitaters (which is pretty much everything) and non-Flying-types. It actually sweeps pretty often, if I can pull it off. Recover exists so Groudon can stick around longer. It's more or less the same as Roost, Moonlight and Morning Sun but Groudon with Roost seems completely bizarre to me and though weather isn't that common Rain and Sand are the most so, so Morning Sun and Moonlight aren't as reliable. And I like it better than Milk Drink (I'm allergic... Once again, I may discriminate somewhat...), Softboiled and all those.


    Reshiram @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Contrary
    Hasty Nature (+Spe, -Def)
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    - V-Create
    - Superpower
    - Overheat
    - Draco Meteor

    Ah, Reshiram, the shining star of Uber Sun. In Balanced Hackmons, Reshiram is even more staggeringly powerful. With Contrary, all stat changes are completely flipped. The given set allows me to boost any stat I need to and still attack with a very powerful move. 120/150 offensive stats is amazing, so even without boosts these moves hurt despite the bulk of the entire tier. V-Create smashes everything with STAB and boosts my Def, SpD and Spe stats, always great. Overheat gets STAB and doubles my SpA stat, meaning that if something survived the first hit nothing will be the second. At which point the Imposter blobs are about all that'll stop me if I have even one hazard up (Sturdy Shedinja can also be added to that list if I do not). Superpower is a nice little addition that I overlooked at first, but it boosts Reshiram's Atk which makes a stronger V-Create/Groudon. Draco Meteor breaks opposing Dragons and the Imposter blobs provided I win the Spe tie and have accumulated a couple of boosts. And if that fails, I have Groudon to deal with them.


    Regigigas @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Rock Head
    Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    - Extremespeed
    - Head Smash
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - Flare Blitz

    Let me tell you a story. It's a story about a Legendary Pokemon. It was a colossal being with frightening base stats. Leading up to the release of Diamond and Pearl, people saw its base stats and immediately declared it broken. That is, until its ability was revealed... Slow Start was to be this legend's downfall, cutting its two most important stats in half for the first five turns of the match. This behemoth became the butt of many jokes. All was lost, it seemed. But then the Hackmons tiers were created, and this monster could once again see the light of day not only without its hindering Slow Start, but with an ability that could turn it into a true horror on the battlefield. Quiver in fear Hackmons, Regigigas has awoken...

    I debated for a long time about what set to give this Regigigas. I started with Adaptability, then quickly changed it to Sap Sipper for absorbing Spores. I nearly went for Sap Sipper, but then I realized how many truly powerful recoil moves there were in the world of Pokemon. Regigigas's Spe stat is at a not-so-terrible Base 100, it has considerable bulk (110/110/110 is actually really solid), and it has a whopping Base 160 Atk stat capping at 419 with a neutral nature. Coming off that, Extremespeed hurts a lot with STAB and Priority. Head Smash is my theory on the real cause of dinosaur extinction. Hi Jump Kick is just a brutal Fighting move with no recoil chance with Rock Head and Flare Blitz round out the set with nice coverage and burnhax. I considered Rampardos after deciding on this set, but I decided it was just too slow and frail, even with the Hackmons EVs. Regigigas may not have the earth-shattering power of Rampardos's Head Smash, but it isn't far behind Atk-wise at all.


    Giratina @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    - Rapid Spin2
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Dragon Tail
    - Recover

    I seem to remember a Giratina very similar to this one on Jesusfreak's BH team and I can certainly see why he uses it. It is literally the king of hazard control. It's got Rapid Spin to deal with existing hazards, it's got Toxic Spikes (another fantastic move in the BH metagame due to the lack of Poison-types) to throw down its own, it has Magic Bounce to reflect incoming hazards and Spore, which is very handy, and it has Dragon Tail for phazing. I've used it over Roar for the damage and because I'm not abusing Prankster (one of the most popular Giratinas I've seen is a Copycat/Roar set with Prankster). Recover is here to add to Giratina's INSANE bulk and to be generally annoying. Especially as this set laughs at all forms of status and Leech Seed courtesy of Magic Bounce. Timid because it makes me faster while leaving Dragon Tail with its maximum possible power. The main reason I went for this set over the Prankster one is that I wanted a Magic Bouncer. They're such trolls.


    Lugia @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    - Magic Coat
    - Substitute
    - Leech Seed
    - Spore

    Prankster Lugia is a TROLL. I learned that the hard way. I used to run a Chansey here but I've never been a huge fan of Imposter users and I have Groudon to mess with set-up sweepers and Contrary abusers, so I decided to use the thing that gave me such headaches. Whimsicott has Priority SubSeed, which can be annoying.. Now add Priority Spore to the picture, and remove the Sleep Clause. And give the SubSeeder insane bulk on both ends of the spectrum. And Magic Coat, so no Spore for the opponent. They do my work for me half the time. I think we all know what SubSeed does, so I'm pretty sure I don't need to go into more detail about how this flippin' TROLL works. Recovery in any form isn't really necessary since by the time something awake is in, I've recovered the Sub damage from Leech Seed and Lefties. It only takes 2 turns. The biggest thing is to make sure I Spore before they Sub. If I don't, I have to break it with something else first. I also have to be pretty sure their Magic Bouncer (if they have one, or two, or three....) is gone, since it laughs in Lugia's face. This also has the added bonus of destroying Safeguard Shedinja.

    Anyway, this is my first Balanced Hackmons team. It's probably pretty imbalanced, but it's done alright to start. Rate away!​
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2013
  2. Atrocious

    Atrocious Well-Known Member

    Well, I was in top 5 for BH on PS hehehe. Opposing Magic Bounce Giratina seem to be a problem as well as Prankster Giratina. Reshiram is really the only thing that can stop it and Contrary users aren't very reliable IMO. HeaTrap on your Giratina and everything else can be picked off.
  3. OrbrunnerX

    OrbrunnerX That Guy

    ^ I was #1 at one point.

    Anyway. Gotta love that Heart Swap Groudon. I ran Spikes in the fourth slot, but Recover probably works a lot better for sustaining your sweeps and such, especially since you aren't banking Prankster Giratina for autowin condition. I'll give Recover a shot and see how many more games it wins me. ^_^

    Have you considered a different move than Leaf Storm on Reshiram? You already have perfect coverage (and dual STAB) with Dragon/Fire. It doesn't necessarily matter, though; it's just an option, i.e. Protect, Substitute, Magic Coat... The only things that can resist that are the Flash Fire guys like Ferrothorn and Escavalier, and Leaf Storm is worse than Draco Meteor against them.

    Curious: why Regigigas > Slaking? Slaking's faster, and you aren't running +Speed stuff OR XSpeed. The same set would work, of course. (IIRC it sacrifices some of one defensive side and gains some of the other, but I forget which) Also, why no XSpeed?

    And that Lugia is evil, sir... most evil. >:)
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2013
  4. MetalSonic

    MetalSonic Orderan' Defendan'

    Wait, Timid on Giratina? Don't you mean Jolly? Unless Hackmons changed that around....
  5. loco1234


    Hm, I could go for Superpower over Leaf Storm for the Atk boost that Groudon may end up with from dem Imposters, or a supporting option.

    As far as Regigigas goes, it ties with Slaking IIRC. I chose it for the defenses, Base 110 across the board. They have the same typing, Atk and Spe, but Slaking has better HP while Regigigas has better SpD. Looking back on it though, the HP is probably going to be more helpful. I'll give Slaking a try. The story and descriptions can be tweaked really easily too xD. My Prankster Giratina answer at the moment is my own Giratina, provided they have no Sub up of course. Otherwise, they give me lots of problems.

    I wasn't aware XSpeed had an effect when held? Like I said, new to Hackmons xD

    .....DERP..... Yes, it's supposed to be Jolly, thank you for pointing that out. I seriously cannot believe I just mixed those two up.
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2013
  6. OrbrunnerX

    OrbrunnerX That Guy

    Superpower sounds good; not only does it kill Ferro and dent Esca, it boosts you ATK and DEF against them, AND the power of your V-Creates. I can't believe I forgot about that one.
    Magic Coat, after testing on my own Resh, is often funny but just as often a failure, since it can't stop Heart Swap; Substitute is the only good option for support move that I see though, if you want to try that out.

    Ah, okay, so you gain (subjective) Def and lose some SDef... and gain Speed. Frankly, I'm not sure which defense is the better in the current BH meta, however, I can guarantee that that extra speed will save you at some point (probably against a base 100).
    By XSpeed I meant ExtremeSpeed; sorry for the confusion. No, the standard "X Speed" doesn't have any effect.
  7. loco1234


    AAAAH haha, Extremespeed is definitely worth a look. What're your thoughts on an Adaptability set with Extremespeed? Or should I stick to Rock Head and recoil armageddon?

    And checking Smogon, Regigigas and Slaking are both Base 100 themselves so wouldn't the question then be defense-related?
  8. OrbrunnerX

    OrbrunnerX That Guy

    Adaptability... no. While it can work well for that purpose, you might as well Belly Drum, because then you'll get lots of boosts on Drain Punch and Crunch too.
    If you just want an attacker in that slot, No Guard is quite fun, because then you can use Inferno, Zap Cannon, DynamicPunch, HJK, etc, with impunity. Rayquaza and Mewtwo are fan favorites for that role.

    Having checked their base stats again, they are the same speed. Never mind. Ignore me there. -_- Yes, it's defense-related. I honestly don't know which is really better. Slaking is better IMO since he has easier set-up (against physical opponents, obvs) but Regigigas is probably superior if he isn't running set-up moves. There's always Illusion Belly Drum, but that almost requires you to run Shedinja, and that in turn requires weather (rain/sun) support and much Rapid Spinning, with one or two Magic Bouncers.

    Personally, I've never tested Rock Head. I'd think that No Guard is better, because the moves it in turn allows are inherently better, excepting HJK, which both abilities can abuse. Speaking of which, where's your HJK on Gigas?
  9. loco1234


    Oh yeah, HJK's recoil would be negated! I was only thinking in terms of the Take-Down-styled moves. Definitely need to use HJK. Replacing Double-Edge or Wood Hammer? Hammer has better coverage but Double-Edge is STAB.

    I'll also try a No Guard abuser after school, that's another idea I wanted to try. I'll update the OP then too.
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2013
  10. silverangel

    silverangel Metal Fairy

    You want a Blissey/Chansey counter. The minute Reshiram sets up and attacks, it's all over once they switch in. Maybe substitutes can work. Also, why do all your pokemon have 25 EVs in Sp. Atk?
  11. loco1234


    25 was a typo, I thought I fixed it xD Forgot to click Save Changes I guess.

    Groudon can take Chansey pretty well but it takes both Groudon and Lugia to beat Blissey. Prankster Spore makes it a lot easier, and then either Heart Swap or SubSeed. But Blissey with a Lum Berry is a huge problem if I don't have both of those. I basically hope Reshiram wins the Spe tie.
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2013
  12. OrbrunnerX

    OrbrunnerX That Guy

    Hammer. You never see anything weak to it around here... at least I never do.

    Ahem, Heart Swap Groudon.
    And I use Sub on my Resh now... works wonders.
    I also lead with Chansey, because I'm awesome like that.
  13. loco1234


    I'll try a Sub too but the Atk boosts have been awesome so I'm a bit hesitant to give that up.
  14. Atrocious

    Atrocious Well-Known Member

    Imposter Chansey pretty much beats all Contrary users unless a random crit as if someone had an Imposter Chansey, no one would let it set up to 3x SpA just to take one straight to the face unless they plan on sacking a mon to safely bring it in.
  15. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Well-Known Member

    I've never played Hackmons but wouldn't this be damn near unbeatable?

    Deoxys-S @ Lum Berry
    Timid - Prankster
    -Skill Swap
    -Stealth Rock

    Beats both Mold Breaker AND Magic Bounce Deo-S. In Magic Bounce's case, use Skill Swap to steal its Magic Bounce and beat it. After that, throw Rocks down and sleepshuffle their entire team.By the time you either run out of PP or your opponent gets a lucky 1st turn wake-up, their team should be weak enough for a Reshiram sweep.
  16. azeem40

    azeem40 Pokemon is fun!

    I'm pretty sure the hack only applies to the Pokemon, not the clauses.
  17. Jazz™

    Jazz™ Not exactly Orthodox

    No, he mentions in the first bit that there's no sleep clause

    Overall, very good team. can easily sweep with Reshiram. It's a lot better than my hackmons team...
  18. OrbrunnerX

    OrbrunnerX That Guy

    This works only if you know they have Magic Bounce. However, if you DO know that for sure, then it's a great counter set. Thing is, you almost have to lead with Spore, and if you do, and they do as well, then you end up asleep and useless. Magic Coat > Roar perhaps?

    Only clause is OHKO clause, and that's because it was easier to tick on that box than to individually ban the moves. No Sleep Clause + Prankster Spore = Fun times.
  19. loco1234


    REALLY fun times xD It's part of why that Lugia's such a pain to deal with. They can't just switch something else in and break it down.

    The Deo set looks interesting, but if they carry Prankster over Magic Bounce their Spore ties mine and if I go for the Skill Swap I get a little nap. It seems a bit risky.
  20. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Well-Known Member

    Yezh, I guess you're right, it would be useless without some way to scout abilities. XDBut why Mold Breaker Deo-S? You still Speed tie with Magic Bounce Deo-S. At least Magic Bounce Deo-S always beats Prankster Deo-S and Prankster Deo-S always beats Mold Breaker Deo-S. The best you can do is beat Magic Bounce Deo-S half the time.

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