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*Revamped RNG Discussion/Help Thread [Do not ask about Gen 6 RNG]

Kailassa

Nanna Ninetales
Thanks, Jolteon. I'll give it a try, and fall back on a frame 8 seed I've found if it proves too difficult.

(My frame 1 seeds are crap, either 30 HP or 30 speed.)

I figure if I include a Ninjask in the party and evolve it with a rare candy, that should be as simple as a frame 1 seed.
 
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Lulu_used_SunnyDay

Petal Blizzard
Also, have you calculated your starting frame? (Or is that what you're trying to find?)

that's what i'm missing....damnit. Is there any 100% accurate way to calculate it? Can't the program itself do it somehow?

EDIT: I think I got it. Basically I have to just walk the steps, catch the thing, check the actual PID frame it's on (how?!) and adjust the chatots to that. Correct?
 
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Kailassa

Nanna Ninetales
that's what i'm missing....damnit. Is there any 100% accurate way to calculate it? Can't the program itself do it somehow?

Just generate the list of PIDRNG frames for your seed, and compare the nature, ability and sex of the pokemon you've caught with those listed.

To be more accurate, you can use the %6 method.

%6 is for finding the characteristic a PID will generate for a pokemon with 2 or more IV stats tying for the highest. Using this you can eliminate many PIDs from the list when trying to find where you are on the list of frames you have generated from the seed in the main Reporter window.

Use Windows calculator. Under View, choose Programmer.
Set it to hexadecimal.
Paste in a full seed.
Set it to decimal and seed is converted. Copy the converted seed.
Next, under View, choose Scientific.
Paste in the converted seed, key in Mod, 6.
The calculator will display the remainder.

Loop clockwise: HP(0) - Attack(1) - Defence(2) - Speed(3) - Sp.Attack(4) - Sp.Defence(5) to make a hexagon.

Mark which IVs are perfect on the pokemon you've caught. (Ask the judge.)

The number of the remainder is the number of the stat which the characteristic will refer to, unless that stat is not perfect. In that case, travel clockwise around the loop to the first perfect stat you come across, and that one will determine the characteristic.

If the PID gives a characteristic other than that your pokemon has, it cannot be for the frame you've hit.

There's also a way to get Reporter to do this, but I haven't got my head around that yet, so I'm still using the old way.

Jolteon might explain the more up to date method if you're interested.

However, before you bother with the above, give Jolteon's formula a try, and see how you go with it. If it doesn't work straight off, at least you'll know the area in the list to start looking in.
 

cannibaleyes

Holier Than Thou
that's what i'm missing....damnit. Is there any 100% accurate way to calculate it? Can't the program itself do it somehow?
Well, the program can calculate it, but since you're walking/turning, the initial PID won't be the one you actually start on. Luckily, Cobalion is in a place with no NPCs, so you should get consistent results if you walk the EXACT same way each time. In that case, you can hit the seed, do the steps, catch Cobalion, check it's nature. I'd recommend switching your synch to a position that is not the lead, so that you'll be able to tell which PID fram you're landing on more quickly. Then, check that nature against the RNG program's results to see which frame you're on. You might have to repeat this process using 1,2, and 3 chatters to accurately see which frame you're actually starting on. Also, using the formula jolteon gave can help you approximate what range of PID frames you'll be in (and for that, you have a point, doing number of steps x2 + 50 usually gives a fairly decent range to look at, just not 100% accurate like the actual formula. It usually tells you what 100's of frames range you're in, though.).

Wow, sorry for the wall of text, but I'm not sure how to break it up. XD

But yeah, do that and see what frame Cobalion is starting on. Unfortunately, it is possible that the Cobalion you're getting is already passed your shiny frame. =/

EDIT: Or do what Kailassa says... Personally, the %6 method is a bit over my head; I'll have to teach myself how to do it just so I don't feel like a complete idiot for being confused by it. XD
 
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Lulu_used_SunnyDay

Petal Blizzard
Thank you all for your help. I'll try looking harder into this when my mind will be a bit cleared XD.

Seriously now, I appreciate it :)
 

Benefactor

Collector
Is the 128 steps to advance the IV frame just a catch-all to guarantee that it will advance? I have a good reason to believe that in most cases you really need less than 128.

To confirm I hit my seed when RNG breeding, I use the method of catching something and checking its IVs, and then comparing it with IV frame 14 or frame 14 + # of Pokemon in my party. However instead of going to Victory Road and sweet scenting, I go the lazy route and bike around the patch of grass next to the daycare (then compare the HP type in Mistralton and check the best IV in Nimbasa). Due to the nature of this I would take a different number of steps every time before I would run into a wild Pokemon, since I was not sweet scenting; however, whether the IV frame would advance or not would be completely random. I could run into something in the first patch of grass and find the IV frame advanced to 19, or circle around the grass several times before running into something, and the frame would not advance, remaining at 14.

There's a few explanations for this, but my theory is that the game actually keeps your modulo 128 step counter from when you last saved. 128 steps would guarantee an advancement, but theoretically you could leave the counter at 125, take a few steps, and advance the IV frame. Of course this is all based on anecdotal evidence. Feel free to tear this apart if I missed something important.
 

Kailassa

Nanna Ninetales
Personally, the %6 method is a bit over my head; I'll have to teach myself how to do it just so I don't feel like a complete idiot for being confused by it. XD
I'm as thick as three bricks, really, so if I can learn it anyone can.

Just open calculator and work through the steps. You'll find it's actually quite quick and straightforward after you've done a couple of PIDs.

***************************************************

Is the 128 steps to advance the IV frame just a catch-all to guarantee that it will advance? I have a good reason to believe that in most cases you really need less than 128.

To confirm I hit my seed when RNG breeding, I use the method of catching something and checking its IVs, and then comparing it with IV frame 14 or frame 14 + # of Pokemon in my party. However instead of going to Victory Road and sweet scenting, I go the lazy route and bike around the patch of grass next to the daycare (then compare the HP type in Mistralton and check the best IV in Nimbasa). Due to the nature of this I would take a different number of steps every time before I would run into a wild Pokemon, since I was not sweet scenting; however, whether the IV frame would advance or not would be completely random. I could run into something in the first patch of grass and find the IV frame advanced to 19, or circle around the grass several times before running into something, and the frame would not advance, remaining at 14.

There's a few explanations for this, but my theory is that the game actually keeps your modulo 128 step counter from when you last saved. 128 steps would guarantee an advancement, but theoretically you could leave the counter at 125, take a few steps, and advance the IV frame. Of course this is all based on anecdotal evidence. Feel free to tear this apart if I missed something important.

Good observing; you're close.

The step counter is a cycle. Once every 128 steps the counter ticks over. However you don't necessarily start on frame one of that cycle when you turn your game on. You might start anywhere on it, even step 127. So walking 128 steps guarantees the counter will have ticked over once, but it's likely to tick over before you've completed those steps.
 
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hazey

Konigsberg ~7
THIS IS FOR DPPt, specifically Platinum I figured, I'd post here since these threads aren't too active. Also, I took a look and did not see a RNG thread for 4th gen.

Here, is my problem. I'm at that last stage. I got the nature and ability all set. I did 8 trail runs to see what frame I was on and it was 6. My target frame was 18, so I did the following calculation in doing flips in my journal: (18-6)/2=6 flips.

Now, I know you have to flip to a page where you have killed or caught a Pokemon. I have been just flipping back and forth to a page where I caught a Pokemon and a page where nothing happened--hitting that page with the caught Pokemon 6 times. And yes, the page starts with the caught Pokemon recorded and I counted it as one of my 6 flips.

So, I set the time 1 minute before it says on the chart and start a stopwatch as soon as I start the time on the DS. Also, set the date. Wait till the 59th second. Smash A to the journal. Do my flips. Press start and smash A as fast as possible.

I use an AR that calculates IV's by pressing start+select in the summary section and then the IV's appear in the stat section in the Pokemon's summary. I also use a quick egg hatch cheat, where my egg hatches in few steps. These cheats didn't harm the first part when getting the ability and nature.

I am not landing on the spread at all, I even widened it to a huge state.

What am I doing wrong here?

EDIT: I used a newer AR strategy. I used the cheat to fill my bags with all the TM's so I can calculate IV's by TM. This way, I am able to calculate IV's of an egg before it hatches. I did this and found myself on the spread and missed the correct delay.

So, the question is; do IV's change if you hatch the egg using a cheat that hatches the egg quickly and then check the IV's by looking at them in the Pokemon's summary?

I went to the 4th gen thread, and a guy told me to come here since it's a "help" thread. Where can I get some help, man.
 

cannibaleyes

Holier Than Thou
I went to the 4th gen thread, and a guy told me to come here since it's a "help" thread. Where can I get some help, man.
The cowgirls/NPCs might be throwing off your frames. Have you checked to see if the IVs you're hitting are on a different frame on the same seed?

I've never used an AR so I wouldn't know, but I don't think it should affect anything in this case.
 
If I am breeding for a DW ability poke do I have to check the box that says "Dream World egg only" or is Clicking "Dream World ability only" in the Time finder tab ok?
 
ok thx and one more question, I havent been able to find any shinys in the main window I've found about 11 diffrent seeds and on all of them I cant find a single shiny any suggestions as to why this might be happening?
 

Too Funk to Druck

I am America
ok thx and one more question, I havent been able to find any shinys in the main window I've found about 11 diffrent seeds and on all of them I cant find a single shiny any suggestions as to why this might be happening?

Did you find a seed in time finder that gives you a shiny? Because as long as you copy the seed in the main window, putting in the same method, you should find some.
 
Yup. I found about 12 seeds input them all into the main window and it gives me the list of possibilites but not o ne of them is shiny
 

Kailassa

Nanna Ninetales
Yup. I found about 12 seeds input them all into the main window and it gives me the list of possibilites but not o ne of them is shiny
Did you check "search for nearby shiny frame" when you were searching for seeds?

If you're looking for shinies with good IVs on frame 1 you might need to enable key-presses.
 

jolteon135

Well-Known Member
ok thx and one more question, I havent been able to find any shinys in the main window I've found about 11 diffrent seeds and on all of them I cant find a single shiny any suggestions as to why this might be happening?
Are you sure you're using the same ID/SID in the time finder and the main window?

To get the correct ID/SID in the time finder you need to enter the ID/SID in the main window, click generate (generate anything) and close/reopen RNG reporter. When you open the time finder your ID/SID should already be there.
 

hazey

Konigsberg ~7
The cowgirls/NPCs might be throwing off your frames. Have you checked to see if the IVs you're hitting are on a different frame on the same seed?

I've never used an AR so I wouldn't know, but I don't think it should affect anything in this case.

Yeah, I check the frame I am on like 10 times to make sure. Then, when I do the final stage, I hit the wrong delay every time, but I hit a delay that is on the spread.

I guess I need tips hitting a consistent delay, and another question: if I load my AR without any cheats and RNG, will the RNG'ed Pokemon be considered legit? I ask this, because I imagine without an AR the seconds and delay would be different.

In other words, let's say you're using an AR to load the game. If you load the game without any cheats with the AR that you put in the cartridge slot, take out, then put in the game; does it make the RNG'ed Pokemon legit?
 

kaiser soze

Reading ADWD
Yeah, I check the frame I am on like 10 times to make sure. Then, when I do the final stage, I hit the wrong delay every time, but I hit a delay that is on the spread.

I guess I need tips hitting a consistent delay, and another question: if I load my AR without any cheats and RNG, will the RNG'ed Pokemon be considered legit? I ask this, because I imagine without an AR the seconds and delay would be different.

In other words, let's say you're using an AR to load the game. If you load the game without any cheats with the AR that you put in the cartridge slot, take out, then put in the game; does it make the RNG'ed Pokemon legit?
What cheats are you using? Are you trying to use the AR to encounter pokemon you're trying to RNG?
 

Shadow_Assailant

Success is Bliss
This is sort of off-topic, but you know...

Kaiser, do you think you can take a look at the VM I sent you and either reply here or via VM/PM?
 
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