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Rival Showdown! Ash VS Bea!! (1174)

Soniman

Break the Limit
man with the way you guys talk about this animation so much you'd swear it was friggin Dragon Ball Super episode 5 it's fine, servicible like to me this felt like they were obviously saving it for next week where the meat and potatoes of the battle will take place
 

Yuugis Black Magician

Namaikina Imouto
man with the way you guys talk about this animation so much you'd swear it was friggin Dragon Ball Super episode 5 it's fine, servicible like to me this felt like they were obviously saving it for next week where the meat and potatoes of the battle will take place

The irony being that there were several good animators on Super #5, they just didn't have time to do any complex animation because the series had nearly no animators on it at all and kept being delayed by other forces.
 

Mr.Munchlax

Great Ball Rank Trainer
After seeing the subs I love Bea & Korrina's friendship even more. They both respect each other's skills and positive traits while not letting their different ideals bother them (which was basically why Ash & Paul hated each other so much throughout DP).

It shows that even though their training styles are different they have a mutual respect for each other and formed a unique bond.
 
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Lucario didn't Mega Evolve here because he knew it wasn't the right moment to do so yet. Satoshi was going to blow his one chance at Mega Evolution too early on because he was worried about Lucario but Lucario kept his cool and it helped calm Satoshi down.
So that still leaves the switching issue for Ash.
 
Starting off, man, bears repeating, but seeing Bea both train her Pokemon and even offer to train with Ash while Ash blows her off really did not sit well with me. The fact that there's been essentially zero onscreen training is bad enough, but I really feel like Ash would jump at the opportunity to train with Bea and if I was in charge of that specific scene, I would have had Ash get all excited and want to train, but Goh would remind him that they couldn't cause they had to meet up with Korrina. In a perfect world, Ash would have had onscreen training, but if that's what all I had to work with without meaningfully increasing the episode length, that would be the way to go I think in not making that scene kind of offensively annoying.

Moving on, some genuinely nice interactions between Bea, Korrina, and Ash. I actually didn't realize the actual meaning of what Bea said when she called her soft, but that twist makes perfect sense and made for a really cute scene there with her and Korrina. The build-up was nice and the mini-tension with how Goh and Ash were worried before realizing the truth was funny. That and their friendship was also nice to watch on screen with their differing perspectives on training, but ultimate understanding of the different approaches.

Some real nice Pokemon interactions to along with that(where is this regularly Journeys?!?!) made for a overall very comfy couple first half.

Alright, so with the battle, the only meaningful strategies from Ash were the Quick Attack -> Electro Web feint at the very beginning before Pikachu returned and the more underwhelming Shadow Clone -> missed Aura Sphere before the Octopus returned. Neither " battles " were especially tension filled and were both animated and written very blandly.

Kind of funny to here the announcer call the Hawlucha - Lucario cut a " marvelous exchange of blows " when it was incredibly weak tea and their exchange literally had zero impact and was undercut by pretty boring repeated animation and still frames. Genuinely the battle has been both flat from a writing and animation perspective thus far.

None of what Bea and her Pokemon are going in this episode comes across as impressive besides I guess the octopus attacking inside the electro web so Ash feeling like he's on the backfoot doesn't come across as gripping tension the way that Volkner v Ash did even with my problems with how Ash and his Pokemon were characterized cause of the lack of build-up of his Pokemon. Ash in general in this episode is very unimpressive.

Finally though, some really impressive and impactful cuts in the episode courtesy of Yusuke Oshida. Great use of smears, impact frames, and ESPECIALLY timing to create a series of exchanges that really convey how badly Lucario got pummeled there. Those cuts did more of than enough to really sell Machamp as Bea's ace so definite props there.

Now the scene with Ash brandishing the ME as Lucario is clearly being manhandled. I actually think this is completely in-character and makes sense and would be a great opportunity to really add depth to Ash and Lucario's relationship. Remember, Ash with Ash-Greninja had a similar inclination to try and rely on a boost for power. In XY, Ash is obsessed with winning and views AG as something to get more powerful and win which of course, leads to the set of consequences that I really think added substance to their relationship.

With Lucario, it's characterized as Ash being foolhardy and losing his temper with something that Lucario doesn't want to do just yet. My actual concern is not that, but with how quickly it's seems to be brushed off. Again, my main problem with the Ash and Lucario relationship is a lack of depth. Dissimilar with AG, whose boost problems were built up before it came to climatic disasters, not only does this really seems like it came out of nowhere, but comes off as incredibly unsubstantial and it feels like a momentary blip as Ash apologizes and Lucario just gives him a grin.

Leon talking about the bond potentially too deep and how meaningful that blip was feels both tone-deaf and divorced from what was actually shown, which is a Journeys special in how dialogue is handled.

All in all, a bit disappointed with how Lucario and Ash's relationship was handled here. I still think there are some definite opportunities for the next episode to both strengthen this moment from coming across as a momentary blip like flashing back to it before they finally Mega Evolve and go ham and in general add more to their relationship and I expect them to try to do so , but ultimately, I don't think the base they created here was good.

The episode was still just very " okay " for me.
 
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Zweilous

Gohst Train
The Good
  • Corni and Saito are actually friends. When I heard about this, I was worried it'd com off as forced, given how Saito talked about her before. But it was fairly believable, and pretty fun.
  • Pokemon often get seriously ignored in week-to-week episodes. But for whatever reason, they're always great in side-scenes. Every one of Ash's Pokemon showed personality or did something fun while eating.
  • The first half was honestly great. They nailed the friendship and chemistry of the cast.
  • Pikachu dabbed after tricking the octopus with Electroweb.
  • Lucario resisted using Mega Evolution for the easy-out button it is. And this was seen as Ash trying to take the easy way out of a bind. Lucario helped Ash keep his head here.
  • Of course, they could Mega Evolve at any time without any actual drawbacks. But the show gave us a sort-of reason to justify not using it right away.

The Meh
  • Take off your damn helmet, Korrina.
  • Stop giving us spiky-haired men with red headbands, anime.
  • The anime establishes that you can use Z-Moves, Megas OR Dynamax in a match. You can't use all three. While I appreciate that balance was taken into account, having Ash wield all three in a match would have been boss. Maybe the rule will be waived for the final match with Leon?
  • Pikachu leads in the fight, but gets recalled. I like that they've been recalling Pokemon in matches this series, but it feels like it's been happening a lot.
  • After Leon came in and expositioned, we got this splitscreen of Ash and Bea. But Ash's eyes have more light and detail to them, so Bea looks like a soulless shell of a person in comparison.

The Bad
  • Ash doesn't have to use Pikachu in every multi-Pokemon match, right? Aside from the Iris one. I get that Pikachu fought against Bea before, and muh rematch, but this little thing's gotten so much use already.
  • Damn, Ash actually used strategy with Electrowe- Oh, Pikachu's using Iron Tail on a slippery Pokemon that has shown to be absolutely killer in close combat. And why would you even use Iron Tail on a Fighting type, anyway? At least he smartened up by the time he brought in Lucario.
  • Honestly, Ash got styled on by Bea this match. I get that they wanted to make Lucario look like an underdog, but since he had almost no strategic plays, Bea looked way more competent than him.
 
Lucario resisted using Mega Evolution for the easy-out button it is. And this was seen as Ash trying to take the easy way out of a bind. Lucario helped Ash keep his head here.
Assuming that it'd survive the bind without it in the first place, that is. If it got taken down for not using it, it would render the whole point useless.
 

Zweilous

Gohst Train
Assuming that it'd survive the bind without it in the first place, that is. If it got taken down for not using it, it would render the whole point useless.
Being the one in the bind, I think Lucario would be the better judge of the situation. It was struggling then, but if it genuinely thought it couldn't get out, it might have had a different response.
 

mehmeh1

I don't feel safe!
The irony being that there were several good animators on Super #5, they just didn't have time to do any complex animation because the series had nearly no animators on it at all and kept being delayed by other forces.
surprisingly enough Tate did have one or two great cuts in between all the.......not so impressive rest of the episode. It's a shame a lot of people know him just as the "DBS ep 5" guy when he has done some outstanding work both in DB and other series (heck, he was in charge of Luffy's iconic punch in Sabaody as well as the final episode of said arc, both which are some of my favorite moments in the entire series.....though where has he been lately? Haven't heard of him since DBS Broly)
 

masdog

The good old days weren’t always good…
Thoughts on the episode:
  • Character dynamics that were lacking in previous episodes were on full display here. I really liked the interactions between Ash, Korrina, and Bea.
  • They really did a good job of humanizing Bea in this episode.
  • Like Dawn and Zoey, Bea and Korrina's friendship definitely felt like it could have some subtext to it.
  • Korrina and Ash are definitely cut from the same cloth.
  • I loved the XY call-backs in the first half of the episode. Pokepuffs, Lumiose Galletes, and even a version of the "Who will you root for" scene. These were all great touches.
  • The battle could have been done better. But I do like that Lucario was like "Yo, I got this. Save Mega Evolution for later."
I found this episode to be very enjoyable, and I look forward to next week's thrilling conclusion.
 

mehmeh1

I don't feel safe!
  • I loved the XY call-backs in the first half of the episode. Pokepuffs, Lumiose Galletes, and even a version of the "Who will you root for" scene. These were all great touches.
though something weird is how much they've been shying away from flashing back to XY, unlike with OS/DP/BW/SM
 
Journeys Ash: You're right, Lucario. It's too early to use Mega Evolution. We should save it for a special occasion.

*meanwhile XY Ash*

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(As you can tell, that is a smile of approval.)
 
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CupidKirby

Well-Known Member
Did Pikachu just dab after putting an Electroweb on Grapploct? 10/10

It looks like the Pokemon World Championships have a rule that each trainer is only allowed one use of Gigantamax/Dynamax or Mega Evolution or Z-Moves per battle. That should really even out the playing field since Ash won't just be spamming all three within the same battle. At the same time though, I kind of wanted to see a match where he ended up using all three.
 
at least we got confirmation that trainers are only allowed to use one of the gimmicks at a time (Z-Moves, Mega Evolution, or Dynamax) so I guess that means we won't be seeing Ash use all three in a single battle at the very least. But does this mean once he gets to the inevitable Ash vs Leon battle, he'll use gigantamax Pikachu as opposed to other dynamax/gigantamax?

I'm kind of not too fond of Dynamax/Gigantamax... But I guess that's what we'll be seeing in the Leon vs Ash battle if what the announcer said is correct. Unless they go the Sun and Moon route where it bypasses the rules we knew (Ash using two z-moves in one battle thanks to Tapu Koko) but in this case, Leon agreeing that the both of them can use all their gimmicks instead of being limited to just one.
 

Animac

Well-Known Member
Writing is hard, you can only make a character act as clever as you yourself can be, and here in pokemon it shows. We had some episodes where Ash was smarter than his opponent, now he is the one to be outsmarted; if the writer can't figure a way to top what was already shown in past battles, he doesn't have much more options than to make him be a bit of a dumbass to make his rivals look better. That being said, Bea wasn't really that impressive either this episode, if it really was made by Tomioka, he certainly wasn't at the top of his game...


Thanks, Tomioka, for making Ash dumber for no reason. You sure are a swell writer.
Lets just hope he doesn't make Taichi appear out of nowhere to beat Bea on the next episode now that Adventure 2020 ended.
 

pardusco

Well-Known Member
Satoshi has displayed skill countless times over the years. He doesnt need to do it every battle.
I think everyone is cool with him bodying nobodies like those PWC randos, but it's fair to expect some more strats out of what is the most hyped battle of Journeys so far
 
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