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Rmt vgc2017

Discussion in '7th Gen RMT' started by REMARCABLE, May 28, 2017.

  1. REMARCABLE

    REMARCABLE Well-Known Member

    [*IMG]
    Goodra @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Sap Sipper
    Level: 50
    EVs: 204 HP / 188 Def / 76 SpA/ 36 SpD/4 Speed
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Thunderbolt
    - Flamethrower
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Ice Beam


    it's strong, incredibly specially bulky and very good defensive typing seeing as the VGC17 metagame lacks physical Fairies and Ice types. It laughs at Alola-Ninetales Blizzards, at Tapu Koko's Dazzling Gleam and Fini's Moonblast, it walls Arcanine and Tapu Bulu for days and it's movepool makes it able to do hit everything for super effective damage.
    Its moveset is to cover against threats, especially Pokemon with x4 weaknesses

    Ice Beam is for Garchomp, Dragon Pulse does not ensure OHKOs and the presence of Misty Terrain means Dragon as an offensive typing is obsolete in this meta imo
    Flamethrower is for Kartana
    Sludge Bomb is for all the Tapu's and Alola-Ninetales
    Thunderbolt is for Rain teams with Pelipper and Golduck

    The EVs are an adjustment to a Dark_Psiana's Goodra, this Goodra was made with one thing in mind: Wide coverage that can OHKO things with 4x weaknesses that are present in the meta, or hit frailer ones with 2x weakness so that they still OHKO while still retaining bulk against all the dangerous special attackers in the meta:

    252 Atk Kartana Smart Strike vs. 204 HP / 188 Def Goodra: 81-96 (42.4 - 50.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
    252 Atk Garchomp Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 204 HP / 188 Def Goodra: 162-192 (84.8 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
    252 Atk Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 204 HP / 188 Def Goodra: 146-174 (76.4 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 204 HP / 188 Def Goodra: 56-66 (29.3 - 34.5%) -- 9.5% chance to 3HKO
    252+ Atk Arcanine Flare Blitz vs. 204 HP / 188 Def Goodra: 53-63 (27.7 - 32.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    180 Atk Celesteela Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 204 HP / 188 Def Goodra: 85-102 (44.5 - 53.4%) -- 28.1% chance to 2HKO
    252+ Atk Mimikyu Play Rough vs. 204 HP / 188 Def Goodra: 140-168 (73.2 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



    Special Defense:

    252+ SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 204 HP / 36 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 55-65 (28.7 - 34%) -- 0.4% chance to 3HKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Lele Dazzling Gleam vs. 204 HP / 36 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 62-73 (32.4 - 38.2%) -- 87.8% chance to 3HKO
    252+ SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 204 HP / 36 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 84-98 (43.9 - 51.3%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO
    84 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 204 HP / 36 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 54-66 (28.2 - 34.5%) -- 0.7% chance to 3HKO
    252+ SpA Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 204 HP / 36 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 62-74 (32.4 - 38.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after hail damage
    252 SpA Ninetales-Alola Blizzard vs. 204 HP / 36 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 48-56 (25.1 - 29.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after hail damage
    156+ SpA Porygon2 Ice Beam vs. 204 HP / 36 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 44-52 (23 - 27.2%) -- 30.3% chance to 4HKO
    252+ SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 204 HP / 36 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 118-140 (61.7 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ SpA Torkoal Eruption (150 BP) vs. 204 HP / 36 SpD Assault Vest Goodra in Sun: 27-32 (14.1 - 16.7%) -- possible 6HKO
    252+ SpA Golduck Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 204 HP / 36 SpD Assault Vest Goodra in Rain: 49-58 (25.6 - 30.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    252+ SpA Golduck Ice Beam vs. 204 HP / 36 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 44-52 (23 - 27.2%) -- 30.3% chance to 4HKO

    [*IMG]

    Garchomp @ Groundium Z
    Ability: Rough Skin
    Level: 50
    EVs: 188 HP / 236 Atk/ 4 Def/44 SpD/36 Speed
    Adamant Nature
    - Protect
    - Fire Fang
    - Poison Jab
    - Earthquake


    Garchomp has always been a very good member of my VGC17 teams, honestly I forgot what the EVs were for... but I did some calcs to see what they could've been for, I focused more on bulk rather than sweeping because whatever outspeeds it in the VGC17 meta usually can outspeed and hit it hard anyway so even with maximum speed it would be in vain (eg Ice Beam Pheramosa, Hidden Power Ice Koko, Alola Ninetales...)
    Fire Fang for Kartana and Celesteela
    Poison Jab for Fairies like Fini, Lele and Bulu
    Earthquake because it's a staple on Garchomp
    Protect for protection and scouting


    252+ SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Hidden Power Ice vs. 188 HP / 44 SpD Garchomp: 177-208 (85.5 - 100.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
    252+ SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 188 HP / 44 SpD Garchomp: 156-186 (75.3 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 188 HP / 44 SpD Garchomp: 176-210 (85 - 101.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO


    [*IMG]
    Arcanine @ Sitrus Berry
    Ability: Intimidate
    Level: 50
    EVs: 244 HP / 12 Def/ 4 SpA/92 SpD/156 Speed
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Protect
    - Flamethrower
    - Snarl
    - Will O Wisp

    I felt I needed some defense on my team so I went with a disruptive support Arcanine.
    156 EVs and a Timid nature mean I outspeed max speed Modest Tapu Lele meaning I can Snarl before it making it weaker

    Protect for protection and stall, Flamethrower for some kind of power
    Snarl for lowering special attack adding now bulk to my team and Will O Wisp to cover physical attacks like Muk, Celesteela and if I get a good prediction, Garchomp



    [*IMG]

    Tapu Lele @ Life Orb
    Ability: Psychic Surge
    Level: 50
    EVs: 244 HP / 12 Def /244 SpA/ 4 SpD/4 Speed
    Modest
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Protect
    - Psychic
    - Dazzling Gleam
    - Thunderbolt

    Focuses more on bulk but otherwise standard moveset. I might need to change the EVs

    252+ Atk Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 244 HP / 12 Def Tapu Lele: 128-152 (72.7 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Muk Poison Jab vs. 244 HP / 12 Def Tapu Lele: 162-192 (92 - 109%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

    If I factor in Intimidate which Lele usually partners with it really patches up it's poor defense





    [*IMG]
    Mandibuzz @ Psychic Seed
    Ability: Overcoat
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 HP / 12 Def / 228 SpD / 12 Spe
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Foul Play
    - Tailwind
    - Roost
    - Taunt

    Bulky support Mandibuzz.

    Foul Play is for Snorlax, Psyche Up Mimikyu, Kartana, Garchomp etc
    Tailwind for speed support
    Roost for longevity
    Taunt to stop Trick Room Porygon2



    [*IMG]
    Kartana @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Beast Boost
    Level: 50
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Leaf Blade
    - Sacred Sword
    - Smart Strike
    - Protect


    I really enjoy this Kartana set, I think the first 3 moves are the best offensive moves for it at the moment since Alola Marowak is almost non-existent in the meta now, both STABs usually OHKO Pokemon like Tapu Fini, Tapu Lele and even Gigalith
     
  2. EKZ1505

    EKZ1505 Well-Known Member

    LOVE Goodra, and great calcs! Have been meaning to use one myself. So underrated in this meta, especially with the coverage you gave it. Can Goodra’s spread be maximized at all? It’s only a few EVs, but since I think it has massive SpDef that is much higher than its HP, I think it’s more efficient to throw it all in HP. Don’t want to mess up your calcs (again, very well thought out), but just makes sense in my head, but perhaps not.

    Big fan of Adamant Garchomp (currently using it myself) for a lot of the reasons you mentioned. I like Swords Dance personally, but I think Fire Fang is good for your team composition. I have a bit more speed in mine I think - are you satisfied with yours?

    Have you considered a “super” Sitrus (Figy, Aguav, Mago etc.) on Arcanine? Sitrus is not bad but I’ve been liking the 50% ones more. Do the defensive EVs accomplish anything?

    Lele looks solid. Do you ever wish you had a bit more speed? Mandibuzz also looks good – were the defensive EVs and speed for anything? No complaints with Kartana either, that’s basically its best set.

    Anything in particular giving the team trouble?
     
  3. REMARCABLE

    REMARCABLE Well-Known Member


    Hi thanks so much for the interest

    For Goodra I like to think I have maxed the EV potential
    Well definitely the SpA, Goodra is meant to wear down the opponent as much as possible using coverage and supreme special bulk

    76+ SpA Goodra Flamethrower vs. 84 HP / 164 SpD Assault Vest Kartana: 196-232 (135.1 - 160%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    76+ SpA Goodra Flamethrower vs. 240 HP / 48 SpD Lilligant in Sun: 158-186 (90.2 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
    76+ SpA Goodra Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Garchomp: 200-236 (109.2 - 128.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    76+ SpA Goodra Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 208-248 (121.6 - 145%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    76+ SpA Goodra Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Bulu: 184-220 (103.9 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    76+ SpA Goodra Sludge Bomb vs. 164 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Lele: 78-94 (46.9 - 56.6%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO
    76+ SpA Goodra Sludge Bomb vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Koko: 112-132 (76.7 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    76+ SpA Goodra Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 176-208 (103.5 - 122.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    76+ SpA Goodra Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Pelipper: 232-276 (138.9 - 165.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    76+ SpA Goodra Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Golduck in Electric Terrain: 158-186 (101.9 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO (if not in Electric Terrain it's a 2HKO)


    So far I think the bulk EVs work, no complaints with Goodra on that front on my part

    As for Garchomp I remembered it was based on SHADEViera's Garchomp except for the moveset, not sure what I could change about it to optimize

    Arcanine I think I might change to be more offensive, with a max speed max attack Adamant with a Figy Berry, Protect/Snarl/Flareblitz/Wild Charge


    Mandibuzz EV calcs:
    252+ SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 228+ SpD Mandibuzz: 88-109 (40.5 - 50.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
    252+ SpA Tapu Koko Gigavolt Havoc (175 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 228+ SpD Mandibuzz: 134-162 (61.7 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. +1 252 HP / 228+ SpD Mandibuzz: 92-110 (42.3 - 50.6%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO
    164+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. +1 252 HP / 228+ SpD Mandibuzz: 102-122 (47 - 56.2%) -- 78.9% chance to 2HKO
    252+ SpA Golduck Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 228+ SpD Mandibuzz in Rain: 108-127 (49.7 - 58.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
    252+ SpA Charcoal Torkoal Eruption (150 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 228+ SpD Mandibuzz in Sun: 73-87 (33.6 - 40%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252+ SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 228+ SpD Mandibuzz: 132-156 (60.8 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Nihilego Power Gem vs. +1 252 HP / 228+ SpD Mandibuzz: 88-109 (40.5 - 50.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

    I do go back and forth whether I want to drop Taunt for Snarl or keep it.




    As for threats to my team it's as follows:

    Celesteela: It's very bulky and annoying, spamming Leech Seed and Protect makes it a problem
    Porygon2: It's also too damn bulky, Taunt is all I have to stop it, Garchomp hates it's Ice Beam
    Twinkle Tackle Tapu Koko: Normally I can handle normal varieties, but Z-Move sets are very destructive
    Z-Move Mimikyu: So annoying, I used to be able to handle Trick Room ones no problem but Z Move ones are difficult to play around, Twinkle Tackle destroys Mandibuzz, Garchomp and Goodra while Never Ending Nightmare destroys Tapu Lele, Disguise makes it difficult for me to break Disguise and wreck with Kartana before it can use a Z Move or Trick Room
     
  4. EKZ1505

    EKZ1505 Well-Known Member

    Oh no I was not doubting the SpA, I was talking about the SpD vs HP. Since Goodra's SpD is massive, it's typically more efficient to invest in HP first. Finally got a chance to run the numbers, but for example:

    What you have now:
    252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 204 HP / 36 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 49-62 (25.6 - 32.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

    vs moving all the SpD into HP (except for 4 since they would be wasted, but you can move the 4 from both SpD and Speed into HP if the Speed is not important to improve the calc even more):
    252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 236 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 49-62 (25.1 - 31.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    (and I know its still a 4HKO, this is just to used as an example of how the EVs could be improved)

    It's doing slightly less, but also gives you a bit more physical bulk due to the extra HP. And if you want to keep the calcs the same, then just investing some into HP gives you a few extra EVs to invest into SpA (to give you a better roll on some of your calcs potentially) or Speed if you need it for some reason. Again, small detail, but there will likely be some battles where you just survive a combo of attacks, or just pick up a KO from a certain % of your opponent's health, so it doesn't hurt to maximize it.

    Not sure what to add about Garchomp without knowing what it does, I was just curious. I think mine has just a couple fewer EVs in attack that have not really mattered in my battles, but a lot more speed and pretty invested into SpD (I can survive HP Ice from LO Koko 100% of the time, and I think Lele without a LO/Specs is a small chance to OHKO with Moonblast). If you're just intending it to survive those special attacks, I think it's better to invest in SpD first, but if it's supposed to survive some physical attack too then it may be fine.

    I like offensive Arcanine a lot more in this format. I've searched for something bulkier (but still max attack) and haven't been content with any suggestions, so I really like max attack/speed with the Berry. I would probably try to fit E-Speed on there though. It's so good and you don't have a priority move on the team yet. This Arcanine should help your matchup against Celesteela, but just recognize when you can't let it go down if you haven't done enough damage to Celest yet.

    Twinkle Tackle Koko...hm honestly that may just come down to playing cautiously (like Protecting Garchomp to scout first, get Tailwind up first, etc), especially if it may appear to be the only Z-move option (or if you don't see Life Orb recoil or Specs damage from another attack). Is Trick Room a problem to prevent or stall out? Seems like you have some tools to do so, but I can see P2 being a problem if you don't Taunt it or get the damage on it.

    Mimkyu...yeah I can see that being an issue with two dragons. I think this is one problem where having a team of mid-tier speed Pokemon (other than Kartana) can hurt, because Mimikyu is often max speed (so it outspeeds everything but Kartana) or very bulky (a problem with Disguise).
     

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