RNG abusing, Hacking or not?

[Polar Star]

By definition, it can't be hacking. No extenral device is being used to modify the game.



It isn't a glitch either. It's a game mechanic just like everything else purposely put in there by the makers of the game. A glitch would be something unexpected happens, like cloning.

Can you prove that Nintendo wanted to make the game ridiculously easy by allowing people to do what would normally be a glitch?

 

[Hydrohs]

Literally no it's not hacking. Nothing is being used to force the game to do it, it will do it all by itself. It's exploitation. Which to some people would be just as bad.

To me, I don't care in the least.

Can you prove that Nintendo wanted to make the game ridiculously easy by allowing people to do what would normally be a glitch?

Nintendo has nothing to do with it. GameFreak coded the game that way, we found out a way to use it to our advantage. Nothing was manipulated. It is not a glitch, the game is functioning exactly as it was intended.

 

[randomspot555]

Can you prove that Nintendo wanted to make the game ridiculously easy by allowing people to do what would normally be a glitch?

Nintendo doesn't make the games.

A glitch, by definition, is something that unintentionally happened. Tweaking is a glitch. Mew in Gen I (or Missingno) is a glitch. Cloning is a glitch.

RNG is a system put into the game by the makers of the game so that breeding, events from Wonder Cards, and so on all properly work. All RNG "abuse" is is doing mathmatical calculations so you can tell how many eggs you'll have to get before you get a shiny, or a certain IV combination, and so on. There is nothing in that the game is being changed or manipulated.

Now if one likes it or not, or thinks it's "just as bad" as hacking, whatever. But it is not hacking, and it's not a glitch.

 

[Noctourniquet]

My view is this;
Are Pokémon obtained via RNG legit? Arguable. They are generated by the game and only the game, but their creation was provoked by the player.
Are Pokémon obtained via RNG hacked? No. An external device is not used and the game's coding is not modified.
Are people who RNG lazy? No. They simply don't want to spend hours getting shinies/good IVs when they have real lives to attend to. They took the time to learn and understand the method and should use it freely.
Are people who RNG abusing the game? Yes. They are taking a game mechanic and attempting to control it. This IS different to EV training because EVs are meant to be modified. To my knowledge, Nintendo and Game Freak never implied that gamers were supposed to find out about how to control the RNG.
Are people who RNG noobs? No. They clearly have an understanding of Pokémon because they must understand game mechanics in order for RNG exploitation to work, and they must also have an understanding of the fairly complex method of RNG exploitation itself. IMO, understanding the game is not noobish.
Should people RNG? If they want to be completely legit and *clean*, then no they should not. I freely admit that I RNG when I want to. But I also use chaining. I breed for good IVs. I admit that my chained/bred Pokémon are more acceptable than my RNG'd ones. But I am not bothered about my RNG'd Pokémon. I am proud of both my bred/chained Pokémon, AND my RNG'd ones because it shows that I understand how the game works in many aspects.
Disagree with my views on this? Challenge me on them.

 

[Troggy]

Just to stir the pot a bit. I recently obtained my SID and used the most basic method (get seed, select nature wanted, do taps, get egg) to hatch a shiny egg instead of a regular one. Now, I was also in the middle of IV breeding (without RNG) that Pokemon with the nature I selected. Once I had the shiny in the egg, I spent nearly the entire week resetting for the IVs I wanted, just as if I was hatching more eggs with my parents during the IV breeding process. It was painful, and I likely would have gotten a somewhat better result by straight IV breeding a non-shiny.

Now, I know you can do far more complicated and precise things with the RNG, but all I did was change a legit IV bred Pokemon to a different color. That, to me, could never be considering illegitimate, because the shiny/non-shiny distinction is meaningless other than to look at.

Really arguing about it is silly. All people are doing is approaching perfect IVs. If you work hard at IV breeding yourself, you will still be just fine against them, since you don't need RNG to get near perfect Pokemon. All the other bred members of my team were IV bred the old fashioned way. If you have a well constructed team with high IVs, you are at a slight disadvantage, if any, versus someone who has RNG'd for something closer to perfection.

 

[Arande]

Are people who RNG abusing the game? Yes. They are taking a game mechanic and attempting to control it. This IS different to EV training because EVs are meant to be modified. To my knowledge, Nintendo and Game Freak never implied that gamers were supposed to find out about how to control the RNG.

I wish to challenge this. Considering that they have said they add hidden elements in the game purposely, what is to say we were not supposed to find out about it? Why is it they set the RNG to advance when the player takes certain actions, as opposed to keeping the 60 FPS? Or to some other method where the player does not have control over it?

 

[randomspot555]

I wish to challenge this. Considering that they have said they add hidden elements in the game purposely, what is to say we were not supposed to find out about it? Why is it they set the RNG to advance when the player takes certain actions, as opposed to keeping the 60 FPS? Or to some other method where the player does not have control over it?

To be fair, RNG manipulation is much different than EV training, IVs, and base stats, all of which have at least been hinted at in the games. While it's probably true that the game makers fully knew HOW the RNG could be exploited (since they designed it), it probably wasn't added for fans enjoyment. Rather, it's a game mechanic they put in and, ever since a similar exploit was found in Emerald, every game since then has been tested for it.

 

[Mr. Mudkip]

Answer to OP:
Look up the defention of the word 'hacking'.
Bam. Answer.

 

[Hydrohs]

I wish to challenge this. Considering that they have said they add hidden elements in the game purposely, what is to say we were not supposed to find out about it? Why is it they set the RNG to advance when the player takes certain actions, as opposed to keeping the 60 FPS? Or to some other method where the player does not have control over it?

For the record RNG =/= FPS.

But as Randomspot said RNG isn't something that GameFreak added in for people's enjoyment, they added it in because it needed to be there.

 

[mattj]

For the record RNG =/= FPS.

But as Randomspot said RNG isn't something that GameFreak added in for people's enjoyment, they added it in because it needed to be there.

wow, you don't know what FPS means, but you're happy to comment on how RNG is not cheating. XD

 

[NickoTheGuitarist]

I've recently started RNGíng, and i'm hooked. It's so much fun, and you never know what nature your going to get, or the amount of taps. For example, once I got a jolly Larvitar on just 16 taps!

Anyways, I think it's up to morals.

 

[Arande]

For the record RNG =/= FPS.

But as Randomspot said RNG isn't something that GameFreak added in for people's enjoyment, they added it in because it needed to be there.

FPS = Frames per second. "Frame" being each insantace of the RNG. In 3rd gen, the RNG was running at a constant rate of 60 frames per second (as in, it generated 60 numbers for the game to use, should it require that number at that 60th of a second), so it was continuously running. In 4th gen, (least D/P/Pt) the RNG only advances when the player does something. (taking a step in grass, flipping a journal page, or the coin flip etc)

My point was why would they have given players control of it if they honestly didn't want us to do anything with i? Yes all games have RNG's, but it could have been in a way we can not control, but they chose to give us control.

 

[pika_power]

Nintendo doesn't make the games.

A glitch, by definition, is something that unintentionally happened. Tweaking is a glitch. Mew in Gen I (or Missingno) is a glitch. Cloning is a glitch.

RNG is a system put into the game by the makers of the game so that breeding, events from Wonder Cards, and so on all properly work. All RNG "abuse" is is doing mathmatical calculations so you can tell how many eggs you'll have to get before you get a shiny, or a certain IV combination, and so on. There is nothing in that the game is being changed or manipulated.

Now if one likes it or not, or thinks it's "just as bad" as hacking, whatever. But it is not hacking, and it's not a glitch.

This.

We are taking advantage of the game's mechanics. Yes, perhaps the Gamefreak crew might not play their games this way, or have intended us to play things this way, but they intended the game to work like this. I could take them through every single step, and they would say "Yes, we intended for the RNG to be advanced when you double tapped the Pokétch." If I were to ask them about the Battle Tower clone, they would not reply in the same way (As far as I can imagine), because clearly it is just an overlooked misprogrammed save.

They gave us the tools to use. They gave us the hammers, the blow torches and the metal bars. They may have intended us to just melt the metal and bang it for fun, but if we melt the metal and bang it into a machine gun, it's still just using the equipment they gave us and using it in the way they wanted, but using them in such a way that we actually get something productive out of it instead of a mess which might be pointy enough to stab someone 15% of the time.

Saying that RNG abuse is cheating is like saying that chain grabbing or comboing in fighting games is cheating.

My argument is this. He explains it far better than I do.
​

 

[Jordy Kieto]

KK I think there is a major flaw all you people who reason RNG abuse was intentional

Dont you need you secret ID?
and isint the only way to get your secret ID by hacking?

 

[Pamizard]

Its not hacking becaus masuda had it in his blog. it's not like he's making it hacking for everyone. Its probably a easy way to help everyone recieve shinies I have tried it but i'm not going to waste time on it.

 

[randomspot555]

KK I think there is a major flaw all you people who reason RNG abuse was intentional

Dont you need you secret ID?
and isint the only way to get your secret ID by hacking?

No, that isn't true. Many people on these forums have discovered their SID without hacking. I don't remeber the specific steps at the moment, but it requires having caught a random shiny Pokemon (not part of a chain, not hatched). I know Skittyonwailord has done it.

 

[Machete]

No, that isn't true. Many people on these forums have discovered their SID without hacking. I don't remeber the specific steps at the moment, but it requires having caught a random shiny Pokemon (not part of a chain, not hatched). I know Skittyonwailord has done it.

I've done that, too.

You need to know the IVs of the shiny Pokémon. If you know these, you can calculate the SID (there's a thread in Smogon that shows how to do it).

 

[Hydrohs]

wow, you don't know what FPS means, but you're happy to comment on how RNG is not cheating. XD

I do know what FPS is, very much so. Frames per second and random number generators are not the same thing.

FPS = Frames per second. "Frame" being each insantace of the RNG. In 3rd gen, the RNG was running at a constant rate of 60 frames per second (as in, it generated 60 numbers for the game to use, should it require that number at that 60th of a second), so it was continuously running. In 4th gen, (least D/P/Pt) the RNG only advances when the player does something. (taking a step in grass, flipping a journal page, or the coin flip etc)

My point was why would they have given players control of it if they honestly didn't want us to do anything with i? Yes all games have RNG's, but it could have been in a way we can not control, but they chose to give us control.

There was probably a reason they made it set rather than truly random. It must have made the game run better or something.

 

[Hirata]

Most of the competitive battling community have already accepted RNG as being legit. Like it or not it's no longer a matter of whether it's right or wrong, but more whether or not you choose to do it yourself and stay on top, or refuse to and get left behind (or achieve the same result the hard way).

Personally I think it's okay because while it may be "manipulation" (something we've been doing with the game in various ways for years already) of the game, it's not hacking, directly altering game code, or abusing a programming error which all fall into my personal list of non-legitimacy for gaming.

 

[Noctourniquet]

KK I think there is a major flaw all you people who reason RNG abuse was intentional

Dont you need you secret ID?
and isint the only way to get your secret ID by hacking?

Nope, you can determine your SID using the IVs of a non-chained shiny pokemon. Its a bit complicated, but all you need is an IV calculator and a Binary calculator.