RNGing in Black and White

[Arsène]

Bred Pokemon are the only Pokemon that really matter to competitive players, aside from the few non-uber legendaries that are good in OU. This gen, all we have is Thundurus (and Thundurus is NOT stationary).

RNG'ing as a whole, therefore, became a lot more difficult. -.-

Well, I'm able to name quite a few Pokemon in Unova who could do without egg moves entirely, if that's what you're insinuating.

I mostly do captures anyway. But if it requires egg moves, I could always breed them later. I will however disagree with you entirely on that last sentence, though. Unless you want to try and prove me wrong or something.

 

[Beck]

The process seems relatively simple, and a lot less time consuming than actually breeding for a Pokemon with decent IVs, let alone flawless IVs. As soon as I find time to really sit down and focus on any errors I may be making I'll give it a try.

 

[DarumakkaImposter]

what is all this download stuff?

 

[Sizerdrix]

Um... I'm really bad at RNGing, so I'm probably wrong somewhere.

It sounds like you're using the C-gear method which uses delays. The delay is how long you have to wait until you turn on your C-gear and if you're using this method then you also have to download a second program that will calculate how long you have to wait.

You have to catch a pokémon, calculate its IVs and then put it in to the program to determine how much you were "off" and then you restart and repeat the process a few times to calibrate how you should set your timer from now on.

Then... I'm not sure. I haven't been able to progress past this step with the C-gear method.

You want something like Eon Timer which will sort out the delays for you.

 

[sentimentGX4]

I mostly do captures anyway. But if it requires egg moves, I could always breed them later. I will however disagree with you entirely on that last sentence, though. Unless you want to try and prove me wrong or something.

You ignore the fact that there are many powerful Pokemon that are rare and a huge bulk of OU pokemon are still based on pre-Gen V pokemon that may not be attained in the wild. Then there's breeding DW Pokemon. (No, not the common ones you find yourself but the rare event ones you attain through trading.) -.-

 

[dukedudez]

I'm super confused with RNGreporter. I watched the video, saved beside a patch of grass, put in the time and changed the ds clock, then I started the game with the time and used sweet scent to catch the pokemon. Then I entered all the data in the paremeter and found a seed. Then I clicked "Use Result in Time Finder" and after that I'm totally confused. The guy in the video was using a stationary legendary, but how can I catch a wild pokemon with the stats I want and that is shiny? Also, what are frames and how do they work? Thanks

 

[dukedudez]

Well I just RNGed my first pokemon. It's a close to flawless dratini at level 55. I'm still confused about what frames are and how to choose ability, nature, and whether it's shiny. Any help?

 

[Arsène]

You ignore the fact that there are many powerful Pokemon that are rare and a huge bulk of OU pokemon are still based on pre-Gen V pokemon that may not be attained in the wild. Then there's breeding DW Pokemon. (No, not the common ones you find yourself but the rare event ones you attain through trading.) -.-

...Which has absolutely nothing to do with:

RNG'ing as a whole, therefore, became a lot more difficult. -.-

If you can't RNG for those "pre-Gen V" Pokemon in past generations, then who's problem is that? My point is 5th generation is the easiest and many of those Pokemon can just be transfered and RNG bred on B/W instead. That's the main point of this thread.

Lastly, breeding DW Pokemon based on the "rare events" solely depends on whether or not it's female.

 

[pokefantravis]

Hmm, this sounds a whole lot easier than genIV RNG, I should try it, and get a flawless shiny Klink or something.

 

[alliebeth88]

Wow, I just spent forever trying to learn how to RNG. I think I get it, I'm just really bad at my timing

Maybe I'll try it again next weekend when I have more time to spend calibrating.

I think I'll stick to MMing for most of my pokemon shinies, though, since a lot of them aren't really common in the wild.

 

[Serebii!]

Once I beat the Elite 4, I may try it

 

[iBlade]

Hello zerky,

Your post is well written and well intended. However I wish to call you out on one of your points, which is an untruth.

Q: Do you need to use a cheating device to RNG?
A:
Short answer: No.
Long answer: The purpose of RNGing is to allow a player to obtain a flawless, shiny, or otherwise, very specific pokémon without the use of cheating devices. Depending on the method, using a cheating device while RNGing can even completely throw off the process and make you unable to get the result you want. Keep in mind, though, that the calculations used to find the pokémon you want and determine how to get it on a specific game are very complicated and generally requires users to download programs to their computers that are specifically designed to calculate these values. However, these programs will never interact with your game.

The parts called into question are underlined. You claim this does not require a cheating device, yet a program which allows you to obtain very specific pokemon is both a device and is used to cheat.

From dictionary.com

1st definition of device: a thing made for a particular purpose; an invention or contrivance, especially a mechanical or electrical one.

5th definition of cheat: to violate rules or regulations: He cheats at cards.

From the official Pokemon tournament regulations

The use of external devices to alter the Pokémon in a player's party is expressly forbidden. Random checks will be performed throughout the tournament to determine whether or not an external device has been used to modify a player's party. Players found to have Pokémon that have been tampered with will be disqualified from the event, regardless of whether the player tampered with his or her game or received a Pokémon or item that was tampered with by someone other than the player. It is the player's responsibility to have legal Pokémon. Event officials have the final determination regarding the legality of a Pokémon.

also

As a player you are advised to use only Pokémon that you have raised yourself and items that you have received through normal game play.

Therefore, we can only come to the conclusion that using this RNG device is cheating.

Yes, with it's ease of use, it will continue to become more prominent this generation. It's so much more rewarding just finding a spread in a minute orso and going out to capture that flawless Pokemon with no hassle whatsoever.

RNG shall forever be a perfectly legitimate practice and the only players who disagree with it are likely those who slave for months at a time hatching thousands of eggs (I'm not making this up, I've known people who have done this) to get one shiny which likely has cruddy IVs and nature.

I'm using no external devices or glitches to alter the Pokemon in any shape of form. The end.

RNG is not legitimate. That is 100% false. Perhaps you need to redefine your terms.

From dictionary.com

The second definition of legitimate: in accordance with established rules, principles, or standards.

I've listed the established rules above in my response to the original poster.

I have no problem with people who RNG, hell it's not the easiest thing to learn initially so you earn the right to use it!

This is a wack sense of entitlement you have there. Is it the easiest thing to learn how to rob fort knox? Since the answer is no, you then have the right to do so? Bad logic is bad.

I have no problems with RNGing, as it's perfectly legit, as long as no cheating devices are used (only a problem in Gen IV to find your SID, it seems)

The RNG program is a cheating device.

Never have RNGed, never will.

It just isn't gratifying to me get a shiny or Pokemon with good IVs when I know I'm going to get it.

Rakurai, I salute your integrity. The question I have for you is, if you do play competitively, why do you play competitively when all these other unethical players are cheating and have a significant advantage?

RNG for pokemon your gonna use competitively? obviouly, grinding 6+ competitive pokemon is just impossible for 99.9% of people out there
RNG for shinies? nah, no fun

If no one cheated then you would perhaps feel less of a need to keep up with the cheaters. People do not need to grind for these uber stat pokemon when other people aren't cheating to get them.

----

Here's my take. Game Freak will not spend the money to prevent this. Their goal is to make money, not a perfect competitive environment. Without exorbitant financial cost, the company is unable to stop you from doing this. I believe they would if they could. All they can do is tell you that it is against the rules. This punishes those with integrity and sends a message to players: cheat or lose. That's competitive pokemon in a nutshell. If it was meant for players to have these RNG'd mons, Game Freak could put a way to achieve them easily in-game, or much more likely, to sell a way to do it. Selling a whole new pokemod chip would make them tons of money, yet they chose not to do it. I bet they've thought about it. Conclusion: it would be bad for the game to permit it.

I hope you enjoy the read. Flame away.

 

[DBK]

1) You claim this does not require a cheating device, yet a program which allows you to obtain very specific pokemon is both a device and is used to cheat.

From dictionary.com

1st definition of device: a thing made for a particular purpose; an invention or contrivance, especially a mechanical or electrical one.

5th definition of cheat: to violate rules or regulations: He cheats at cards.

From the official Pokemon tournament regulations

The use of external devices to alter the Pokémon in a player's party is expressly forbidden. Random checks will be performed throughout the tournament to determine whether or not an external device has been used to modify a player's party. Players found to have Pokémon that have been tampered with will be disqualified from the event, regardless of whether the player tampered with his or her game or received a Pokémon or item that was tampered with by someone other than the player. It is the player's responsibility to have legal Pokémon. Event officials have the final determination regarding the legality of a Pokémon.

2) As a player you are advised to use only Pokémon that you have raised yourself and items that you have received through normal game play.

Therefore, we can only come to the conclusion that using this RNG device is cheating.

3) RNG is not legitimate. That is 100% false. Perhaps you need to redefine your terms.

From dictionary.com

The second definition of legitimate: in accordance with established rules, principles, or standards.

I've listed the established rules above in my response to the original poster.

4) The RNG program is a cheating device.

5) Rakurai, I salute your integrity. The question I have for you is, if you do play competitively, why do you play competitively when all these other unethical players are cheating and have a significant advantage?

If no one cheated then you would perhaps feel less of a need to keep up with the cheaters. People do not need to grind for these uber stat pokemon when other people aren't cheating to get them.

----

6) Here's my take. Game Freak will not spend the money to prevent this. Their goal is to make money, not a perfect competitive environment. Without exorbitant financial cost, the company is unable to stop you from doing this. I believe they would if they could. All they can do is tell you that it is against the rules. This punishes those with integrity and sends a message to players: cheat or lose. That's competitive pokemon in a nutshell. If it was meant for players to have these RNG'd mons, Game Freak could put a way to achieve them easily in-game, or much more likely, to sell a way to do it. Selling a whole new pokemod chip would make them tons of money, yet they chose not to do it. I bet they've thought about it. Conclusion: it would be bad for the game to permit it.

I hope you enjoy the read. Flame away.

1) The RNG program is not a cheating device. It is nothing more than a complex calculator. It is neither electrical nor mechanical, nor does it affect the games coding in any way, therefore it does not violate any rules or regulations. An "external device" to them is something like PokeSav, PokeGen, AR, or Gameshark. Since you're not modifying anything or tampering with the game, no cheating has been done.

2) Since you do raise the pokemon yourself, and you do get the items from normal gameplay, no cheating has been done, therefore the RNG program is not cheating.

3) Seeing as all you do is predict when the pokemon you want will appear, it is very much legit.

4) Again, no it is not.

5) There is no advantage gained when RNGing. You're only leveling the playing field and making the battle more even. RNGers don't always win.

Plus, it's the one's that grind that win more often, anyways. People RNG to keep up with the grinders.

6) This last part tells me that you really don't know what RNGing really is. The RNG is a mechanic built into the game that the game uses to generate the pokemon you encounter. All the RNGers do input some data into the program to predict when the pokemon they want will appear and perform specific actions in game to reach that pokemon. Since the games code is not altered nor the game tampered with, it is not cheating, simply a more efficient way to grind.

I appreciate your stance on cheating, but this is taking it a bit too far.

 

[Arsène]

From dictionary.com

1st definition of device: a thing made for a particular purpose; an invention or contrivance, especially a mechanical or electrical one.

5th definition of cheat: to violate rules or regulations: He cheats at cards.

...

thing made for a particular purpose; an invention or contrivance, especially a mechanical or electrical one.

RNG Reporter is a PC program - defined as a sequence of instructions, stored in any medium, that can be interpreted and executed by a computer. There is no established connection whatsoever between said program and video game system. Nothing is being done to alter the Pokemon's stats or data in any shape or form by said "device". The program is used to calibrate your game by determining the amount of time it takes in seconds to reach into the virtual world after a hard reset and using said data to find your spreads. Yes, the program itself has a purpose, but as far as I'm concerned, going out of the way to spout such nonsense as calling it cheating device is pure rubbish.

If a calculator is your interpretation of a "cheating device", please do away with it.

The use of external devices to alter the Pokémon in a player's party is expressly forbidden. Random checks will be performed throughout the tournament to determine whether or not an external device has been used to modify a player's party. Players found to have Pokémon that have been tampered with will be disqualified from the event, regardless of whether the player tampered with his or her game or received a Pokémon or item that was tampered with by someone other than the player. It is the player's responsibility to have legal Pokémon. Event officials have the final determination regarding the legality of a Pokémon.

And again, the problem with that is:
RNG Reporter does not alter. It's more or less a calculator to determine when the IVs of a Pokemon are generated. Present valid evidence that is modifies anything on my perfectly untouched or tampered with White cart, and I'll hear you out. Otherwise your argument shall remain invalid.

As a player you are advised to use only Pokémon that you have raised yourself and items that you have received through normal game play.

And with that, the items in-game required for RNG are...?

See, If you refuse to understand what is being said, we shall shorten it into simple English - RNG Reporter calculates when (time/date/month/hours/minutes/seconds) a Pokemon's stats and values will be produced in the game. It does not create. It does not modify.

I'm really becoming tired of everyone who calls glorified stopwatch and resetting "cheating".

But truth be told, I've yet to have seen any players in the finals of official tournaments use many reset/bred Pokemon in battles at the VGCs. In fact, I've even seen (admittedly) Pokesav'd teams make it in perfectly without even being disqualified. Now let's see how many RNG teams "break the rules" this year. Or, better yet, be declared "cheating" by officials.

 

[iBlade]

Haha yeah, I predicted this flamming since no one who wasn't cheating would likely be reading a post on how to do it.

Looks like I bruised some egos. Truth stings sometimes, doesn't it?

1) The RNG program is not a cheating device. It is nothing more than a complex calculator. It is neither electrical nor mechanical, nor does it affect the games coding in any way, therefore it does not violate any rules or regulations. An "external device" to them is something like PokeSav, PokeGen, AR, or Gameshark. Since you're not modifying anything or tampering with the game, no cheating has been done.
A complex calculater used to modify what the odds are on getting a specific pokemon is indeed a cheating device. If you don't like the dictionary definitions, take it up with them. I've tried to be fair in defining terms. I've listed the source for you.

2) Since you do raise the pokemon yourself, and you do get the items from normal gameplay, no cheating has been done, therefore the RNG program is not cheating.
False. You are not getting those pokemon from normal gameplay. Check dictionary.com for definition of normal please. I think the word normal is key to the discussion.

3) Seeing as all you do is predict when the pokemon you want will appear, it is very much legit.
That is illigit, not legit. It does not fall in accordance with established rules, principles, or standards

4) Again, no it is not.
You have no reference here. Not sure what you're referring to.

5) There is no advantage gained when RNGing. You're only leveling the playing field and making the battle more even. RNGers don't always win.

Plus, it's the one's that grind that win more often, anyways. People RNG to keep up with the grinders.

Sorry but no advantage gained? I don't know how to say this respectfully, but its laughable and shows where your motives are. That sounds bad I know. My poor phrasing abilities but what I mean is I think you have a great sense of entitlement because of the difficulty of self-breeding and catching. I'd like people to take a good hard look at what this guy is saying. This sense of entitlement is what draws people in to cheat.

6) This last part tells me that you really don't know what RNGing really is. The RNG is a mechanic built into the game that the game uses to generate the pokemon you encounter. All the RNGers do input some data into the program to predict when the pokemon they want will appear and perform specific actions in game to reach that pokemon. Since the games code is not altered nor the game tampered with, it is not cheating, simply a more efficient way to grind.

Inaccurate. To claim I don't know what RNGing is, is a strawman. That arguement is frail as it was easily researched. Claiming that just because you are using the mechanics of the game to cheat, makes it not cheating can't hold water. The only people satisfied with your requirement of cheating to have to altar the game code are people looking to justify their actions. The excuse is paper thin.


I appreciate your stance on cheating, but this is taking it a bit too far.
Thank you for respecting my stance. I've backed up all my assertions with evidence, not emotion. For you to claim that I'm taking it too far I think the same needs to be done on your side.

Quite honestly I don't expect to change anyones opinions here. Every has to live with themselves. Let's make a deal. Before any of you respond, talk to someone who's integrity you greatly respect. Father, grandfather, religious leader; anyone whom you respect. Ask them if they feel its shady and see what they say.

...



RNG Reporter is a PC program - defined as a sequence of instructions, stored in any medium, that can be interpreted and executed by a computer. There is no established connection whatsoever between said program and video game system. Nothing is being done to alter the Pokemon's stats or data in any shape or form by said "device". The program is used to calibrate your game by determining the amount of time it takes in seconds to reach into the virtual world after a hard reset and using said data to find your spreads. Yes, the program itself has a purpose, but as far as I'm concerned, going out of the way to spout such nonsense as calling it cheating device is pure rubbish.

If a calculator is your interpretation of a "cheating device", please do away with it.

A calculator used to cheat is a cheating device. You spew the same old tired excuse that becaue you arent altering the pokemons data, it isn't cheating. That is not a requirement of cheating. Don't be confused people. Feel free to call it rubbish. We all choose who we become.

And again, the problem with that is:
RNG Reporter does not alter. It's more or less a calculator to determine when the IVs of a Pokemon are generated. Present valid evidence that is modifies anything on my perfectly untouched or tampered with White cart, and I'll hear you out. Otherwise your argument shall remain invalid.
And again, altering the game is not a requirement of something to be used as a cheating device. Never has been a requirement and never will be. Stop using that as a cruch. It's your arguement and fictional defense which is invalid.


And with that, the items in-game required for RNG are...?

See, If you refuse to understand what is being said, we shall shorten it into simple English - RNG Reporter calculates when (time/date/month/hours/minutes/seconds) a Pokemon's stats and values will be produced in the game. It does not create. It does not modify.

I'm really becoming tired of everyone who calls glorified stopwatch and resetting "cheating".

But truth be told, I've yet to have seen any players in the finals of official tournaments use many reset/bred Pokemon in battles at the VGCs. In fact, I've even seen (admittedly) Pokesav'd teams make it in perfectly without even being disqualified. Now let's see how many RNG teams "break the rules" this year. Or, better yet, be declared "cheating" by officials.
Have you ever heard any official say that RNGd mons are permitted in their official, sanctioned Pokemon event? Ever? Ever ever? Ever ever ever? Come on man, don't buy into your own excuses. Also, I clearly said that Game Freak doesn't have the capability, or won't purchase the technology, to stop people from cheating. All they can do is say it is against the rules. I dare you to tell them you're team is RNG'd at the next big event though

To repeat myself, I don't expect to change anyone's opinions here. Everyone has to live with themselves, making their own choices in life. Let's make a deal. Before any of you respond, talk to someone who's integrity you greatly respect. Father, grandfather, religious leader; anyone whom you respect. Ask them if they feel it's shady and see what they say.

 

[Arsène]

A complex calculater used to modify what the odds are on getting a specific pokemon is indeed a cheating device. If you don't like the dictionary definitions, take it up with them. I've tried to be fair in defining terms. I've listed the source for you.

Okay, what odds are being "modified"? Again, you're constantly spitting out assumptions and can't prove any of it.

Modified 1. To change in form or character; alter -- RNG reporter doesn't do this.
2. To make less extreme, severe, or strong

That is illigit, not legit. It does not fall in accordance with established rules, principles, or standards

Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that calculating when a Pokemon were to appear with specific stats was illegitimate. /clearlybeingsarcastic.

Sorry but no advantage gained? I don't know how to say this respectfully, but its laughable and shows where your motives are. That sounds bad I know. My poor phrasing abilities but what I mean is I think you have a great sense of entitlement because of the difficulty of self-breeding and catching. I'd like people to take a good hard look at what this guy is saying. This sense of entitlement is what draws people in to cheat.

The advantage gained is almost minimal. I've seen players (mainly on Smogon) who can do without RNG and are able to breed Pokemon with stats almost exactly like the Pokemon in my signature (barring the stats that don't matter). The only advantage here is reducing unnecessary hours hatching eggs or soft-resetting. If you want to breed/sr the "fair" way, if that's what you call it - be my guest. Nobody is stopping you. I'm telling you that RNG isn't "cheating" and you've yet to have proven why it is.

Inaccurate. To claim I don't know what RNGing is, is a strawman. That arguement is frail as it was easily researched. Claiming that just because you are using the mechanics of the game to cheat, makes it not cheating can't hold water.

If you knew what it was, you would actually have a clue what you're talking about in the first few quotes. Seems that isn't the case. And this is where I'm not taking you seriously anymore. Using game mechanics is suddenly "cheating"? Wait, so chaining for shinies, Matsuda Method, Power item/Everstone inheritance and the slew of modifiers that determine what happens is also cheating? RNG, and the aforementioned are all game mechanics put there, whether you like it or not. You're in a serious distortion field if you think that it wasn't intentional. Every single video game has a Random Number Generator of sorts, how it can be manipulated is solely up to how the developers designed it, and how the players figure out how to manipulate these numbers to predict events that occur.

The only people satisfied with your requirement of cheating to have to altar the game code are people looking to justify their actions. The excuse is paper thin.

For the umpteenth time, no game code is being manipulated whatsoever. Either you're unable to read basic English or you're trolling - somehow, quite a few signs are pointing to the latter. Disregard that.

Thank you for respecting my stance. I've backed up all my assertions with evidence, not emotion. For you to claim that I'm taking it too far I think the same needs to be done on your side.

You mean the evidence that you have yet to have presented to the table? I've asked a few questions which you haven't answered.

And with that, the items in-game required for RNG are...?

It's still waiting.

A calculator used to cheat is a cheating device. You spew the same old tired excuse that becaue you arent altering the pokemons data, it isn't cheating. That is not a requirement of cheating. Don't be confused people. Feel free to call it rubbish. We all choose who we become.

Do please give me the requirements for it to be cheating. The above quote is completely lost in noise, otherwise.

And again, altering the game is not a requirement of something to be used as a cheating device. Never has been a requirement and never will be. Stop using that as a cruch. It's your arguement and fictional defense which is invalid.

Refer to the above. My argument and defense is entirely valid and you're using assertions that have yet to have proven correct. None of my points have been refuted with supporting evidence --just complete chatter on your end.

Have you ever heard any official say that RNGd mons are permitted in their official, sanctioned Pokemon event? Ever? Ever ever? Ever ever ever? Come on man, don't buy into your own excuses. Also, I clearly said that Game Freak doesn't have the capability, or won't purchase the technology, to stop people from cheating. All they can do is say it is against the rules.

I wonder where I've insinuated this. I can't seem to find it anywhere. Again with the baseless assumptions and lack of evidence, you just don't seem to learn. If developers didn't have the capability then certain Pokemon games in the past wouldn't have been impossible to RNG without actually having to use a cheating device. (See: Emerald/FR/LG/Colosseum/XD) The latter games being literally impossible to manipulate without an emulator. Seems they're very capable of stopping it, thank you very much. You've pretty much proven that you sir, don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about. Quote the source where Game Freak and their developers have stated specifically that Random Number Generating is an illegal in-game activity. I don't want any dodgy quotes or half-answers like the ones you've presented either.

I dare you to tell them you're team is RNG'd at the next big event though

Sure thing by the way, I'll actually mention it just for you if I ever decide to participate in any upcoming tournaments.

 

[DBK]

1) Haha yeah, I predicted this flamming since no one who wasn't cheating would likely be reading a post on how to do it.

2) Looks like I bruised some egos. Truth stings sometimes, doesn't it?

3) To repeat myself, I don't expect to change anyone's opinions here. Everyone has to live with themselves, making their own choices in life. Let's make a deal. Before any of you respond, talk to someone who's integrity you greatly respect. Father, grandfather, religious leader; anyone whom you respect. Ask them if they feel it's shady and see what they say.

1) It's not flamming. We're simply providing our thoughts on the topic. Plus most people are probably asleep right now.

2) No need for the attitude.

3) Irrelevant to this discussion.

Now that that is out of the way.....

Nothing is being modified. You are simply predicting, nothing more. Therefore it doesn't fall under the definition you provided.

You are getting them from normal gameplay, you just have advanced knowledge of when they will appear. You've done nothing to improve your odds or to speed up the process.

Since you are playing the game and acquiring the pokemon as you normally would, it does fall in accordance to the established rules/standards. Thus legit.

Check your quoted response. I number each argument and respond to them.

Entitlement? Where did that come from? I don't even RNG. I just understand how it works. There is no advantage other than to guarantee the pokemon you want. The end result is the same whether you RNG or grind. In actuality, those that grind tend to have more skill in battle than those that RNG. There is really no advantage battle-wise. Again, no need for the attitude.

Since all you are doing is utilizing a game mechanic (which you do anyway when you breed and train) it is not cheating. By your definition and logic, the Masuda Method is also cheating.

And it's not my requirement, it's Game Freak/Pokemon's. Speaking to officials about this the last two years at the VGCs, I learned that when they mention "external devices" in the rules/regulations, they are referring to devices that alter the games code or tamper with the game in some way. Since RNGing does neither, they don't see it as breaking the rules. It's just another way to play the game. And if you don't believe me, you can ask them yourself if you go this year.

Have you ever heard any official say that RNGd mons are permitted in their official, sanctioned Pokemon event? Ever? Ever ever? Ever ever ever? Come on man, don't buy into your own excuses. Also, I clearly said that Game Freak doesn't have the capability, or won't purchase the technology, to stop people from cheating. All they can do is say it is against the rules. I dare you to tell them you're team is RNG'd at the next big event though.

I have actually overheard some players do just that with officials (especially some of the Ducks and SkarmBlissers). If anything, the officials looked amazed (and obviously didn't disqualify them since they won the thing).


Gamefreak doesn't like their games being modified, but they don't mind players utilizing the mechanics they put in their to help play the game, otherwise it wouldn't be there or it would be near impossible to use.

Like I said, I appreciate your stance on cheating and agree with you as far as pokesav, AR, etc is concerned, but trying to group RNGing in with them is taking it a little too far.

Also, your attitude isn't helpful toward your argument. We're not attacking you, simply discussing the topic. No need to be so defensive.

 

[zerky]

These are the kinds of responses I was looking for, and I'm glad the FAQ helped people to grasp the basics so we could finally get into a proper debate.

@iBlade
Fair enough. I'll update the FAQ to be more neutral on the issue and be more specific on what "cheating device" means. I can't outright call RNGing cheating, since the issue appears to be highly contentious and I would get the exact opposite response if I did so.

The parts called into question are underlined. You claim this does not require a cheating device, yet a program which allows you to obtain very specific pokemon is both a device and is used to cheat.

From dictionary.com

1st definition of device: a thing made for a particular purpose; an invention or contrivance, especially a mechanical or electrical one.

5th definition of cheat: to violate rules or regulations: He cheats at cards.

From the official Pokemon tournament regulations

The use of external devices to alter the Pokémon in a player's party is expressly forbidden. Random checks will be performed throughout the tournament to determine whether or not an external device has been used to modify a player's party. Players found to have Pokémon that have been tampered with will be disqualified from the event, regardless of whether the player tampered with his or her game or received a Pokémon or item that was tampered with by someone other than the player. It is the player's responsibility to have legal Pokémon. Event officials have the final determination regarding the legality of a Pokémon.

also

As a player you are advised to use only Pokémon that you have raised yourself and items that you have received through normal game play.

Therefore, we can only come to the conclusion that using this RNG device is cheating.

I would like to point out that nearly everyone uses a 3rd party program to RNG, but it can be done without using any program at all. The math used to calculate seeds, spreads and frames is just math and can be done completely manually, although it would require many, many calculations and take a very long time. I would also like to point out that there is virtually no difference in the final result if you do the math by paper or if you use a calculator to do it for you.

In casinos, there is a similar line of argument about the practice of card counting when playing blackjack. Obviously in this case, no one uses a calculator when card counting, because the math is usually simple enough to be done in your head. However, like RNGing, card counting doesn't step outside of the realm of normal play by introducing elements that weren't already there, or changing the game's odds. Rather, the player is aware of the probability of all the outcomes and is playing the game in a way that takes those odds into account.

Here's my take. Game Freak will not spend the money to prevent this. Their goal is to make money, not a perfect competitive environment. Without exorbitant financial cost, the company is unable to stop you from doing this. I believe they would if they could. All they can do is tell you that it is against the rules. This punishes those with integrity and sends a message to players: cheat or lose. That's competitive pokemon in a nutshell. If it was meant for players to have these RNG'd mons, Game Freak could put a way to achieve them easily in-game, or much more likely, to sell a way to do it. Selling a whole new pokemod chip would make them tons of money, yet they chose not to do it. I bet they've thought about it. Conclusion: it would be bad for the game to permit it.

It is impossible for any technology to determine whether or not a pokémon has been RNGed, unless GameFreak starts installing spyware on your computer and chips in your head.

Thank you for respecting my stance. I've backed up all my assertions with evidence, not emotion. For you to claim that I'm taking it too far I think the same needs to be done on your side.

Quite honestly I don't expect to change anyones opinions here. Every has to live with themselves. Let's make a deal. Before any of you respond, talk to someone who's integrity you greatly respect. Father, grandfather, religious leader; anyone whom you respect. Ask them if they feel its shady and see what they say.

I'm sorry, and this is really irrelevant, but this really bugged me when I saw it. lol.

There is a very large contradiction between your the first and second paragraphs... lol

(for the record, I asked my sister what she thought about it and her eyes glazed over while I explained the mechanics of RNGing and when I was done she responded with, "sure, if that's what you like." I asked her what she thought of card counting and she said, "oh man! Have you seen 21? It makes me want to be good at math!")

 

[Arsène]

Oh, don't worry already edited my post as well.

 

[DBK]

The only people satisfied with your requirement of cheating to have to altar the game code are people looking to justify their actions. The excuse is paper thin.

For the umpteenth time, no game code is being manipulated whatsoever. Either you're unable to read basic English or you're trolling - somehow, quite a few signs are pointing to the latter.

That's not what he said. He said that our only requirement for cheating is if the game code is altered and that those of us who think that (or are satisfied with that, as he put it) are just looking for an excuse to justify "cheating by RNGing".

Calm Minds conquer all.