RNGing in Black and White

[Arsène]

I see. Too sleepy to pick up the message he tried to convey there, but thanks. Regardless his "definition" of cheating isn't actually the most accurate one from what I've seen.

 

[SkittyOnWailord]

Hello zerky,

Your post is well written and well intended. However I wish to call you out on one of your points, which is an untruth.

The parts called into question are underlined. You claim this does not require a cheating device, yet a program which allows you to obtain very specific pokemon is both a device and is used to cheat.

From dictionary.com

1st definition of device: a thing made for a particular purpose; an invention or contrivance, especially a mechanical or electrical one.

5th definition of cheat: to violate rules or regulations: He cheats at cards.

From the official Pokemon tournament regulations

The use of external devices to alter the Pokémon in a player's party is expressly forbidden. Random checks will be performed throughout the tournament to determine whether or not an external device has been used to modify a player's party. Players found to have Pokémon that have been tampered with will be disqualified from the event, regardless of whether the player tampered with his or her game or received a Pokémon or item that was tampered with by someone other than the player. It is the player's responsibility to have legal Pokémon. Event officials have the final determination regarding the legality of a Pokémon.

also

As a player you are advised to use only Pokémon that you have raised yourself and items that you have received through normal game play.

Therefore, we can only come to the conclusion that using this RNG device is cheating.

Since I worked at the VGC a few years ago I'll point this out. To put it simply, Nintendo's defanition of a "cheating device" is basically anything that voids the warranty of your DS or games, like for example any device that isn't sold or licensed by Nintendo that goes into the DS or game slot (like an AR for example). Or trading for something that has.
So to put it simply: If you can do it with just a DS and the game catrage and nothing else connected to either of those then Nintendo has no problem with it. And if Nintendo has no problem with it then there's nothing wrong with it. Now the morality of RNG is a whole different discussion.

EDIT:

Have you ever heard any official say that RNGd mons are permitted in their official, sanctioned Pokemon event? Ever? Ever ever? Ever ever ever? Come on man, don't buy into your own excuses.

There you go. I just said it.

 

[Ememew]

Haha yeah, I predicted this flamming since no one who wasn't cheating would likely be reading a post on how to do it.

Looks like I bruised some egos. Truth stings sometimes, doesn't it?

Um, I don't know a thing about RNGing, so I can't really comment on that part, but I feel the urge to point out that disagreeing does not equal flaming. They listed reasons as to why they disagreed with you, the same way you listed reasons for disagreeing with them. I saw neither side get "angry" or "mean" about it until you made the above statement.
Also you asserted that only cheaters would be reading this thread, but as someone who has never cheated (against it) or attempted to RNG (I don't battle competitively, so I don't even really care about perfect stats or anything, whether RNGing is legit or not), I read this. That fact alone does not make me a cheater, nor does it make me (or anyone else responding to you) automatically someone who would disagree with your views. By your own logic of "no one who wasn't cheating would likely be reading a post on how to do it," why are you reading this and posting here?

Just because someone disagrees with you and counters your arguments doesn't make them flamers. Just because a person looks at a thread does not correlate with whether they agree with the statements in it. Sorry if this is off the thread's topic. I just felt it needed to be said.

 

[iBlade]

Just checking back in and I see a lot of good points have been made. I'll give them some thought before I respond, I need to sleep first. One thing that jumps out at me is the claim that the officials at a sponsered event such as the VGC are willing to say that using a RNG to bypass normal game play is not cheating. If that is indeed the case then I have no argument with it. If anyone has been in a VGC, and told the officials that their pokemon were attained through using a RNG, please let us know the result.

A quick response to Ememew before I take a break; I see you've misunderstood something. My statement, "...since no one who wasn't cheating would likely be reading a post on how to do it." was written and worded as intended. The word "likely" was inserted intentionally because it was unlikely that I would have ever read this thread. At the time I was doing research on RNG for this game to form my opinion of it to see if it was cheating or not, and the thread came up in the search engine. As poorly worded as it was with that double negative, the statement still stands. It is unlikely for those people who don't use RNG and have no interest in it (what I consider cheating at this time) to be reading this post. I maintain that the vast majority of readers of this thread use, or have a desire to learn how to use, RNG to gain a competitive advantage.

EDIT: Also want to apologize for my use of the word flamming, which turned out to be inflammatory itself. I'm admittedly too defensive.

 

[Tomxc]

iBlade, RNG boils down to just timing of when you perform any normal action (like turning on the game or turning on the C-Gear), so the results you can get is no different than if you just randomly turned on the game on a random day and happened to get the Pokemon you want.

So if you played the game one random day and happened to get a Pokemon with near-perfect IV's (of course statistically unlikely, but can potentially happen), then the cause of the result here is just that you performed a series of actions that adjusted values in the game through normal game play. In this case, you certainly wouldn't have thought that you had done any illegitimate or illegal action here simply because you got good stats. If you were able to repeat that same series of actions (like the exact time you turn on the game, move around the same number of steps carrying the same Pokemon, talk to the same people etc, and everything else that happens repeated the same way), then you would get the same result.

The goal of RNG'ing is simply to find out which series of actions to perform that will lead to the desired result, but the bottom line is that all these actions are still playing the game normally within the boundaries and limitations of the programming in the cartridge. You are not modifying any values inside the game cartridge, so the entire situation has the same potential and range of results as if you had never heard of RNG and were just playing the game for fun.

 

[DBK]

1) Just checking back in and I see a lot of good points have been made. I'll give them some thought before I respond, I need to sleep first. One thing that jumps out at me is the claim that the officials at a sponsered event such as the VGC are willing to say that using a RNG to bypass normal game play is not cheating. If that is indeed the case then I have no argument with it. If anyone has been in a VGC, and told the officials that their pokemon were attained through using a RNG, please let us know the result.

2) EDIT: Also want to apologize for my use of the word flamming, which turned out to be inflammatory itself. I'm admittedly too defensive.

1) A past official (and by association nintendo/game freak) just told you it wasn't cheating. If that doesn't get you to at least loosen your stance (we don't expect to change your mind, but to at least get you to understand and not be so adamantly against it) then maybe we should end the discussion before it gets out of hand *remembers the "other" RNG thread*.

2) lol No comment.

In bold: You're not bypassing normal gameplay, you are simply doing it more efficiently. The other mechanics of the game also "bypass" what would be considered normal gameplay, yet you don't believe using them is cheating. It is simply a mechanic of the game that the developers didn't think would be used, but have no problems with it being used.

Like Skitty said, if it doesn't connect directly to the game or ds, doesn't void the warranty, and doesn't tamper with the game in anyway, then it is not cheating.

 

[dukedudez]

So anybody here good at RNGing shiny pokemon and natures?

 

[Arsène]

So anybody here good at RNGing shiny pokemon and natures?

*Sunglasses*

*head shifts to signature*

 

[FatalOmega]

*Sunglasses*

*head shifts to signature*

Are you really bragging about being able to exploit the gaming mechanics? Well have fun getting things that you do not need and are getting for with no effort at all.

Anyways I am going back to playing with perfectly usable non-Random Number Generated Pokemon.

 

[DBK]

Are you really bragging about being able to exploit the gaming mechanics? Well have fun getting things that you do not need and are getting for with no effort at all.

Anyways I am going back to playing with perfectly usable non-Random Number Generated Pokemon.

Spoken like someone who has no idea how RNGing works. Do you even realize how much work goes into setting that up to be able to use it properly? It's not an easier way, just a more guaranteed way.

If I could pull it off, I would be bragging, too.

 

[dukedudez]

Well I can now RNG for good IVs, but I'm utterly confused when it comes to shinies and natures.

 

[Arsène]

Are you really bragging about being able to exploit the gaming mechanics? Well have fun getting things that you do not need and are getting for with no effort at all.

Anyways I am going back to playing with perfectly usable non-Random Number Generated Pokemon.

I didn't know answering his question was "bragging".

It's okay if you're possibly butthurt, just don't jump to conclusions, pal.

Edit: @dukedudez - I'm assuming you didn't abuse your ID/SID combo to enable a particular seed of your choosing always be shiny. (Which is what I did to the Mienfoo in my signature and quite a few others)

In that case, you'll struggle to find spreads for shiny captures. But there's a way to breed them and a guide on Smogon written by "Tesseraction" explains how.

 

[DBK]

I didn't know answering his question was "bragging".

It's okay if you're butthurt, just don't jump to conclusions, pal.

Lol The way you answered it was a little show-offy. But his response was completely unnecessary.

 

[dukedudez]

I have that PDF that's on Smogon, but it lost me with ID/SID.

 

[Arsène]

Lol The way you answered it was a little show-offy. But his response was completely unnecessary.

Heh, it wasn't intentional. My signature is a bit trollish in a way, though.

I have that PDF that's on Smogon, but it lost me with ID/SID.

I was lost at that point for quite a while too, but then someone managed to explain it a bit more clearly. It's just a matter of generating a spread of your choosing that you'd like to be shiny and placing it in the "seed" part of "pandora's box" I can get into more details if you VM'd me.

 

[FatalOmega]

I did RNG in forth gen and wont attempt it on a fifth gen installment. At the end I found it kinda like a low blow to players who play the game for what it is. I ended up deleting my game file and going back to my third gen game at the end of it.

Sorry for wording it the way I did, but I do wish that these kind of things did not come to be. Going to stay away from this topic now to avoid another ill thought comment.

 

[Arsène]

It's alright. I was initially the same way once I saw what players were doing a few years ago. But due to current events with real life, I find the time for such "moral" gameplay to be winding down. RNG however, can be done within minutes, or even an hour so It's the best way for me to fit sessions of Pokemon into my schedule and enjoying it competitively.

 

[Tomxc]

Anyways I am going back to playing with perfectly usable non-Random Number Generated Pokemon.

I think the term RNG is a bit misleading in that you are not really generating the numbers by modifying the game cartridge, you are still playing the game within all the limitations and rules that were programmed in, but performing actions like walking, turning on C-Gear, in a specific way to get a specific result, but all within the game's programming with no modifications (unlike Action Replay).

Technically, there's no such thing as non-Random Number Generated Pokemon because if you're playing the game, then everything you do will still be a direct result of the game's calculations and the internal "RNG". And even more technically is that in computers, there is no true random number generation- everything is pseudorandom, which is what makes the method known as "RNG" possible because if you play the game in an exact way and repeat it, you get the same result. But again you're not playing it by modifying it like an Action Replay, you are just playing it with timing of your button / stylus tapping in mind.

 

[Tomxc]

Well I can now RNG for good IVs, but I'm utterly confused when it comes to shinies and natures.

I'm not sure what DS you are using, but currently if you're using a DSi / DSi XL / 3DS then the methods of RNG are very limited, and people with those DS types will only be able to use the C-Gear method, which does not quite allow enough control for shinies, natures etc. Until the Standard method is figured out for DSi or higher, there's not much other way than luck for Shinies.

However if you have a DS Lite or the old DS, then you have more options right now.

 

[dukedudez]

I have the old, bulky ds