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Roboticide

Jb

Tsun in the streets
Hey, who remembers Techno the robo pup toy?

I had no problems destroying that thing.
 
Let's cross this road when/if we get there. Killer robots ranks up high on the never going to happen scale.....right under where a priest predicts the rapture.
 

Hejiru

Rev up those fryers
This isn't really about computers that simply follow an algorithm and base their actions on the result of their computations. There's nothing there, and shutting that off would be no different than turning off a calculator.

But what if we succeed in creating a machine that replicates the human brain? It would have emotions. It would have what we consider free will. It would have self-awareness and consciousness. Wouldn't that be considered a soul?
 
This isn't really about computers that simply follow an algorithm and base their actions on the result of their computations. There's nothing there, and shutting that off would be no different than turning off a calculator.

But what if we succeed in creating a machine that replicates the human brain? It would have emotions. It would have what we consider free will. It would have self-awareness and consciousness. Wouldn't that be considered a soul?

No a soul is a living life source. Metal will never breathe, it will never create more life (birth), it will not/cannot have a soul.
 

Hejiru

Rev up those fryers
No a soul is a living life source. Metal will never breathe, it will never create more life (birth), it will not/cannot have a soul.

What difference does being made of metal make? By your logic putting someone's brain in a machine body would mean they no longer have a soul.
 
Would this "machine-body" be able to do anything besides keep the brain alive?
Realistically you can't be saying that anything can have a soul, can you?

If I punch my toaster will it cry? No
If I attach a brain to my toaster, then punch it...will it cry then? NO!
 

Hejiru

Rev up those fryers
Would this "machine-body" be able to do anything besides keep the brain alive?
Realistically you can't be saying that anything can have a soul, can you?

If I punch my toaster will it cry? No
If I attach a brain to my toaster, then punch it...will it cry then? NO!

If the brain is conscious, and if the toaster had nerve endings and tear ducts then yes, it would cry.

What about people who can't feel pain? What about people who rely on machines to do their breathing for them? (Not comatose people, living conscious people attached to breathing machines.) They have souls, don't they? If something can think and feel, then what difference does it make if their body is made of flesh or metal?
 
Of course they have souls but they never lost their souls yet...that is why. Metal cannot gain a soul, it is impossible.

Because flesh is part of one's body *which the soul is attached to*, without soul and life....a body will rott. Metal will not (rust doesn't count).
 

Zachmac

Well-Known Member
I don't really believe in souls, but I do believe it won't be possible for a few thousand or even million years, when we understand life enough to create it.

Showing signs of emotion are completely different then acting them out. Robots would only act them out. Would they actually feel social connections with someone? Actually be sad if it lost something it "cared for"? Get nervous and actually feel "butterflies in it's stomach"?

No, just act.
Because flesh is part of one's body *which the soul is attached to*, without soul and life....a body will rott. Metal will not (rust doesn't count).
There is a scientific explanation for rotting that has nothing to do with a "soul", which as I said, I don't believe in. In fact, there are ways to keep a "soulless" body from rotting, just don't let bacteria and other things eat away at it.

In my eyes, soul is just an adjective to describe an animal(including humans) having it's own thoughts and emotions. Not a life source, our life source is food and water, they give us the energy to live and grow.

We breath air and eat food. What we need from those gos into our blood, which spreads it among our cells. These cells can do their jobs, which is what makes us live, and reproduce inside our bodies, which is what makes us grow.
 
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Hejiru

Rev up those fryers
Of course they have souls but they never lost their souls yet...that is why. Metal cannot gain a soul, it is impossible.

Because flesh is part of one's body *which the soul is attached to*, without soul and life....a body will rott. Metal will not (rust doesn't count).

I think we're arguing about two different definitions of "soul" here.

I ask you again, if something has emotion, self-awareness and free will, doesn't it have a soul?


I don't really believe in souls, but I do believe it won't be possible for a few thousand or even million years, when we understand life enough to create it.

Showing signs of emotion are completely different then acting them out. Robots would only act them out. Would they actually feel social connections with someone? Actually be sad if it lost something it "cared for"? Get nervous and actually feel "butterflies in it's stomach"?

No, just act.

This is sort of what I was saying. The machines we have today do not have souls because they do not truly feel; the just respond to stimuli according to their program. But if we where to create a robot that could truly feel, I believe that would count as a soul.
 
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I think we're arguing about two different definitions of "soul" here.

I ask you again, if something has emotion, self-awareness and free will, doesn't it have a soul?

Yes and no. Those are what makes up a soul, but without life a soul cannot exist. And the truth is just because a robot can think doesn't mean it is alive.
 

Hejiru

Rev up those fryers
Yes and no. Those are what makes up a soul, but without life a soul cannot exist. And the truth is just because a robot can think doesn't mean it is alive.

Then define "life". If a robot is capable of feeling pain and pleasure, of having free will and understanding of itself just like a human, shouldn't it have rights? Or should be be allowed to abuse something that feels pain and sorrow simply because it has a different body than us?
 
Yes I'm not saying it doesn't have rights, I'm am just stating that because even if Steel could feel it would never be able to do things that life gives other beings
Steel will never bleed, never eat/sustain itself, steel will never be able to believe in absolutely nothing.
 

Zachmac

Well-Known Member
Then define "life". If a robot is capable of feeling pain and pleasure, of having free will and understanding of itself just like a human, shouldn't it have rights? Or should be be allowed to abuse something that feels pain and sorrow simply because it has a different body than us?
Life requires DNA. However, if thee was a man-made machine that actually felt emotions, then it would deserve rights, though if we're creating it's mind, we don't have to make it just like a humans, we're overpopulating anyway. We could simply not add emotions such as anger.

Though if you argue that they wouldn't be "alive" that way, remember that plants and fungi are also alive.
Steel will never bleed, never eat/sustain itself, steel will never be able to believe in absolutely nothing.
Our brains believe, not our blood or skin, so part of it being steel wouldn't matter. If we could replicate a brain...it would take a long time(we'd all be dead by then), but it's probably possible, how else do they appear in the first place?

Plants don't bleed, yet they're alive.
 
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Ace Trainer Nick

Veteran Ace Trainer
As someone who has design, build, program, and test a robot in 6 weeks, it's amazing what these things can do overall
 
Souls and Life are things that don't need to be proven, you know they exist just like air.

And even if you don't believe in a soul, then explain to me how something can live with no life....
If you can explain how life can be by-passed then I will be impressed.
 

Zachmac

Well-Known Member
Souls and Life are things that don't need to be proven, you know they exist just like air.

And even if you don't believe in a soul, then explain to me how something can live with no life....
If you can explain how life can be by-passed then I will be impressed.
Life and "Souls" are different in my eyes. I don't believe in a "life source", other then energy.

All the cells in my body combined make me. The ones in my brain make me feel emotions to temp me to make certain actions. My lungs and intestines supply energy to my blood. My blood gives this energy to the cells. Each little cell is alive, on their own, they'd have to collect it themselves, but together, they can collect it like this. My body is a complicated system of cells working together to stay alive.

For you religious people who might take offense, I'm not saying it's certain your only purpose is for your cells, that's just one of them.
 
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