Rotom's Wish (884)

[Bguy7]

Thinking about it again I've just recognised that this episodes seems to fall into what Science Fiction writers call the Hitler's murder Paradox - If Ash and his friends travelled back in time to stop Yolton from taking over the hotel by helping Rotom win it's battle, then it erases the need for Rotom to send them back in time in the first place. Hence the question is why did they travel back in time in the first place. This is actually a problem with the two other main time travel episodes in the anime, "Time wrap heals all wounds," and "Celebi and Joy." In all three of the episodes apparent illogicality this seems to get glossed over and goes unchallenged when in reality it actually defeats the whole plot. The only thing that saves it is the parallel universe theory that suggests altering events in the past creates a parallel universe in which the future is different. Perhaps the anime should stop dabbling in Science-Fiction themes. The idea would have worked fine without the time travel element - This has made me realise how silly the episode was.

In the episode's defense, almost all time travel stories in almost any media falls into the exact same trap. Also, there are much worse traps to fall into when it comes to time travel. I would argue that since time travel is beyond our knowledge, it's really hard to actually know what the rules would be, so authors of fiction are allowed some leeway, but only if they stay consistent. The problem comes if you change the physics of time travel every time you travel in time. The series Star Trek is actually really bad with that as an example, time travel works completely differently in almost every episode. Also, as a side note, the quantum multiverse is canon in Pokemon thanks to the Delta Episode, and, to an extent, the Mirror Dimension episode.

 

[Pikachu52]

In the episode's defense, almost all time travel stories in almost any media falls into the exact same trap. Also, there are much worse traps to fall into when it comes to time travel. I would argue that since time travel is beyond our knowledge, it's really hard to actually know what the rules would be, so authors of fiction are allowed some leeway, but only if they stay consistent. The problem comes if you change the physics of time travel every time you travel in time. The series Star Trek is actually really bad with that as an example, time travel works completely differently in almost every episode. Also, as a side note, the quantum multiverse is canon in Pokemon thanks to the Delta Episode, and, to an extent, the Mirror Dimension episode.

That's true - the anime up to this point has consistently ignored the notion of paradoxes as an impingement to time travel - the same accusation can be made of "Celebi and Joy," "Time warp heals all wounds" and "Arceus and the Jewel of life." All three episodes involve Ash or one of his friends travelling back in time to prevent a tragic event from happening in order to improve the future but in doing so erase the need for their time travel in the first place. The point I'm making is that this episode and those other two represent a relatively simplistic and lazy way of writing about time travel that seems to becoming more and more prevalent in the anime. In fact it made the episode rather silly in my opinion. I have no problem with Pokémon using the concept given that Celebi and Dialga are related to time but the anime clearly hasn't developed the idea very well. Given Celebi and Dialga didn't appear in this episode we don't even know how Ash and his friends managed to go back in time - the same problem arises in Time warp heals all wounds.

In my opinion the episode didn't need to include the time travel element. The idea of Mantle stealing Pokémon from people he battled could have been developed a much edgier and more interesting plot by removing the time travel element and setting the entire episode in the present - For example Mantle could have stolen Pikachu, and then Rotom seeing how upset Ash is about loosing his partner decides to help them win him back by changing his form.

The hotel was supposed to be the Lost Hotel, hence Rotom popping out of a green trash can. The episode must have taken place on a Tuesday.

Rotom isn't the only Pokémon in the Lost hotel. Trubbishand Litwick appear there also. We've already had two episodes dedicated to showcasing Rotom's forms so it wasn't absolutely necessary to do it a third time.

 

[Bguy7]

That's true - the anime up to this point has consistently ignored the notion of paradoxes as an impingement to time travel - the same accusation can be made of "Celebi and Joy," "Time warp heals all wounds" and "Arceus and the Jewel of life." All three episodes involve Ash or one of his friends travelling back in time to prevent a tragic event from happening in order to improve the future but in doing so erase the need for their time travel in the first place. The point I'm making is that this episode and those other two represent a relatively simplistic and lazy way of writing about time travel that seems to becoming more and more prevalent in the anime. In fact it made the episode rather silly in my opinion. I have no problem with Pokémon using the concept given that Celebi and Dialga are related to time but the anime clearly hasn't developed the idea very well. Given Celebi and Dialga didn't appear in this episode we don't even know how Ash and his friends managed to go back in time - the same problem arises in Time warp heals all wounds.

In my opinion the episode didn't need to include the time travel element. The idea of Mantle stealing Pokémon from people he battled could have been developed a much edgier and more interesting plot by removing the time travel element and setting the entire episode in the present - For example Mantle could have stolen Pikachu, and then Rotom seeing how upset Ash is about loosing his partner decides to help them win him back by changing his form.

Now that's an entirely different debate. Yeah, the time travel in this episode not only came out of nowhere, but wasn't really needed. Probably what happened was the writers decided they wanted to do a time travel episode (which isn't a bad idea), but struggled to come up with a concept that hadn't already been used in a previous episode. So they ended up with this episode. The time travel was kept because that's what they wanted, but it wasn't pulled off well because they didn't know what to do with it. I think they might have actually had two separate story ideas (or two halves of story ideas) and decided to merge them into for whatever reason.

Rotom isn't the only Pokémon in the Lost hotel. Trubbishand Litwick appear there also. We've already had two episodes dedicated to showcasing Rotom's forms so it wasn't absolutely necessary to do it a third time.

Rotom is definitely the most interesting Pokemon though, and it really is the only point of going to the Lost Hotel. Personally, I feel like since Rotom hasn't been done in X and Y yet, it's okay to do here.

 

[Pikachu52]

Rotom is definitely the most interesting Pokemon though, and it really is the only point of going to the Lost Hotel. Personally, I feel like since Rotom hasn't been done in X and Y yet, it's okay to do here.

That's debatable. Personally I think you could have got an interesting story showcasing Litwick or Trubbish instead - Certainly the fact that Litwick and it's evolved forms survive by burning people's souls would give quite rise to quite a dark and edgy episode - The BW episode "Scare at Litwick Mansion" is probably the best spooky ghost type themed episode of the anime series so far - it's a lot better than the XY episode that featured Gengar and it's pre-evolved forms. Rotom is certainly an interesting Pokémon given the way it can possess different electrical appliances but I can help but feel this episode ends up being a lacklustre repeat go "Get your Rotom Running" from DP. Rotom isn't a Kalos region Pokémon so I don't automatically see the need for the XY series to devote an episode to showcasing it. Similarly as Professor Oak's Rotom is cannon by this point and Clemont is primarily and electric type user, if they wanted to do a Rotom Showcase specifically for the XY series there was no need to confine themselves to the Lost Hotel.

Plus if they wanted to showcase Rotom again, they could always use Professor Oaks Rotom. Of all the Pokémon not owned by main characters Rotom seems be getting an almost disproportionate amount of sceentime.

 

[Exlostmagelord321]

Loved the episode might have been better if it was 2 parts though... But other than that i loved it!!!

 

[Pikachu52]

Loved the episode might have been better if it was 2 parts though... But other than that i loved it!!!

How exactly would it have been made two parts? The episode seemed stretched as it was. There's only so much time that can be spent on showcasing Rotom's five forms even if the episode had included the fan Rotom and the Heat Room. Two part or continuous episodes tends to only occur for important story arches or major events in the series. This episode was just a filler. Certainly if they had written it with a different plot such as Mantle stealing Pikachu or one of the groups Pokémon it could have been a longer story but they opted for an 'everyone's problems vanish thanks to the magic of time travel plot' which leaves little room for a more complex story.

 

[Exlostmagelord321]

How exactly would it have been made two parts? The episode seemed stretched as it was. There's only so much time that can be spent on showcasing Rotom's five forms even if the episode had included the fan Rotom and the Heat Room. Two part or continuous episodes tends to only occur for important story arches or major events in the series. This episode was just a filler. Certainly if they had written it with a different plot such as Mantle stealing Pikachu or one of the groups Pokémon it could have been a longer story but they opted for an 'everyone's problems vanish thanks to the magic of time travel plot' which leaves little room for a more complex story.

oh i understand now thanks.

 

[the1stpkmnfan]

So in a sense, Ash went back in time just when he was born. Mind blown.

Interesting episode. The gambling for Pokemon was a good curve ball to the plot; rarely have I seen that in the Pokemon anime. Maybe in YuGiOh.

The time traveling bit was off putting, since I had no idea Rotom was capable of it. I had thought only Celebi could do that.

Not my favorite episode, but there was some good charm here and there. Namly Rotom changing into it's 3 forms.

 

[Pikachu52]

The time traveling bit was off putting, since I had no idea Rotom was capable of it. I had thought only Celebi could do that.

It isn't. This is at least the fourth or fifth time the anime has given us unexplained time travel for no good reason. Rotom shouldn't be capable of it.

This episode is entirely unremarkable. Not only have we already had two previous episodes that showcase Rotom, "Get your Rotom running," in DP and "To catch a Rotom," in BW, both of which showcased all of Rotom's forms rather than just three, but this episodes follows an almost identical plot to two other anime episodes. "Rotom's wish," plot of Ash travelling back in time to change an event that created a miserable future and in doing so improves the future is also the plot of "Celebi and Joy" from the chronicals and "Time warp heals all wounds" from AG. Both episode also involve that episodes protagonist, Ritchie and May respectively, going back in time to correct a tragic event, ironically in both cases to save someones lover from a premature death. I have to ask what is the point - There were so many way to showcase the lost hotel and so many Pokémon in it that would make for an interesting story, yet they've chosen to recycle a bad plot point from two previous episodes and write it into an episode in a manner that makes less sense than the previous two. It smacks of lazy writing. If Rotom is such an interesting Pokémon it needs three showcasings, it could simply have been made part of the main cast - give Clemont a Rotom. It would suit his scientific interests perfectly

 

[Fadingx]

I think the answer to who Ash's father is has been answered. It's a deleted scene (it will be on the DVD), but while still in the past 10 years ago he visits Kanto. His mom has the hots for him, like the mom from back to the future. Then like Fry in Futurama, he does the "nasty in the pasty". It's just that he becomes his own father, where Fry became his own grandpa. This also explains why Ash forgets everything every new region, and still thinks he's 10, inbreeding.

 

[Pikachu52]

I think the answer to who Ash's father is has been answered. It's a deleted scene (it will be on the DVD), but while still in the past 10 years ago he visits Kanto. His mom has the hots for him, like the mom from back to the future. Then like Fry in Futurama, he does the "nasty in the pasty". It's just that he becomes his own father, where Fry became his own grandpa. This also explains why Ash forgets everything every new region, and still thinks he's 10, inbreeding.

I would have trouble believing that. The series only basically deals with romantic relationships and only in a strongly heteronormative context. I think it unlikely they would have an incestious shipping become canon, given that the anime is aimed at children and incestious relations are strongly taboo.

 

[Fadingx]

I would have trouble believing that. The series only basically deals with romantic relationships and only in a strongly heteronormative context. I think it unlikely they would have an incestious shipping become canon, given that the anime is aimed at children and incestious relations are strongly taboo.

It was a joke

 

[Wednesdayz]

Eh, I really dislike time travel concepts since it just emits a bunch of time paradoxes and confusion. The whole episode could have gone without it and just simply beating the three thugs and taking back the hotel would have sufficed.

 

[Pikachu52]

Eh, I really dislike time travel concepts since it just emits a bunch of time paradoxes and confusion. The whole episode could have gone without it and just simply beating the three thugs and taking back the hotel would have sufficed.

I said that too when the episode first came out.

There are generally three types of time travel portrayed in popular fiction:

First there's the multiverse timeline portrayal - This assumes a infinite number of universes. Traveling into the past and changing an event in the past simply creates an alternative universe, thus allowing the time traveller to do anything. By helping the hotelier and Rotom defeat the bad guy in the past, Ash and his friends simply created a new universe where the hotelier won his bet and nobody had their Pokémon stolen. This is the portrayal the anime has used not just here, but in the other two episodes where a main character has time travelled; Celebi and Joy, Time warp heals all wounds and Arceus and the Jewel of life.

Then there's the Dynamic timeline portrayal - This assumes an altered event in the past has a direct impact on the future, and thus the problem of paradoxes arises. If we were to assume this portrayal rather than the multiverse view, we'd encounter the kill Hitler Paradox. Ash and his friends went back in time to help Rotom win it's battle. But if Rotom won it's battle and the hotel in the future is a success, the need for Ash and his friends to travel back in time disappears, so why did they go back?

Finally the fixed timeline portrayal - This assumes Novikov self-consistency principle, that states time travel has to be consistent with it's starting point. If an event would cause a paradox, then the probability of the even is zero. This would mean although Ash and friends could go into the past and presumably interact with Rotom and the others, they wouldn't be able to do anything that would alter the future they had experienced it. Maybe Rotom decides to run off anyway after Clemont showed it the machines. Maybe Rotom looses the battle even with the devices. Serena alludes to this when she says "maybe it's not possible to change the past" when Rotom appears to be loosing.

Time travel is cannon in Pokémon - Celebi is the time travel Pokémon and can move from the future to the past. Diagla controls time, proving everything in the world revolves around Pokémon. But outside the anime there's no cannon explanation for how it would work. Whatever explanation they use, it preferably should be given a better explanation. Here it was used as a bad plot device to run yet another Rotom episode. In all anime time travel episodes and in the movie, time travel has only ever been a means to avoid an adverse event in the future. If they're going to experiment with it, the writers ought to give us more than just that.

 

[Alloutℯ]

I like how this episode is completely meaningless in the end and only exists to showcase Rotom again, and probably because their budget was low. This was hardly the best episode they could've done.

 

[TheWanderingMist]

I like how this episode is completely meaningless in the end and only exists to showcase Rotom again, and probably because their budget was low. This was hardly the best episode they could've done.

This one feels like it belonged back in BW, where the Rotom forms would've been able to show off their new typings since they were all Electric/Ghost before. Also, why does Clemont never think to build a time machine after learning that not only is time travel possible, it's possible to change the past for the better without any significant damage to the timeline?

 

[Mrs. Oreo]

Wow the Lost Hotel looked pretty in the past as we saw when Rotom possessed the television. Ash's group doing some time travel was interesting to say the least, plus I liked how Rotom changed forms and beat Krookodile.

 

[Alloutℯ]

Ash's group doing some time travel was interesting to say the least

We had seen this kind of thing before though, with much less plot convenience.

 

[Leonhart]

Frankly, I've never been fond of Rotom since its form changes are usually used for humorous moments, yet in this episode it seemed like the writers weren't even trying. I enjoyed seeing another Waruvial, however.

 

[FullmetalJackie]

Time travel isn't new to the series. The only thing that bothered me, besides the paradox of time travel, is nobody recognized them when they came back. As for the paradox part, they went back in time to change past events, but if those events don't happen, then they would never have gone back in time.