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Rumors & Leaks - Speculation/Discussion Thread [⚠️PLEASE HIDE STORY SPOILERS⚠️]

MunchMunch

Well-Known Member
I don't believe I saw any levels for the Gym Leader's Pokemon, it could be that gyms are more strategy focused than level focused.
If you look at the videos and pay close attention to the UI, once you select the a move and the Pokemon attacks, the UI turns minimalistic. We saw it with the trailer from last week.

They show the levels last week when demonstrating the information. It's a blink and you miss it mode. It shows both of them at "50"
 

Sαpphire

Johto Champion
The whole not scaling is fine and how every open world game works. The latter is what appears to be the case and that’s fine. If you choose to grind to beat the eighth first then your reward is for the rest of the gyms to be a breeze. This is how open world games work.
That is objectively not how “every open world game works.” Skyrim had level scaling over a decade ago, The Witcher 3 has optional level scaling, BOTW has difficulty scaling through ranking up enemies. Scaling with the player’s progress and team would be the right way to make the game feel like you can take any path you choose rather than forcing you on a linear journey if you want any sense of challenge for the majority of the game, and I don’t really get why anyone would be opposed to it. They could even make it optional if there are really any reasons not to have it.
 

Lord Godwin

The Lord of Darkness
That is objectively not how “every open world game works.” Skyrim had level scaling over a decade ago, The Witcher 3 has optional level scaling, BOTW has difficulty scaling through ranking up enemies. Scaling with the player’s progress and team would be the right way to make the game feel like you can take any path you choose rather than forcing you on a linear journey if you want any sense of challenge for the majority of the game, and I don’t really get why anyone would be opposed to it. They could even make it optional if there are really any reasons not to have it.
As much as I love the scalling idea the biggesrt problem with introducing it to Pokemon is that you do not simply make the Pokemon stronger/higher level but you also need to Play with stuff like number of Poke.kb used, different Evolution stages, movepools etc.
Unless we want to have something like in IoA where you fight a lv 61 Shinx with Spark and Bite. Imagine the total opposite like having a lv 15 Garchomp with Earthquake and Dragon Rush.

Of course GF can create 8 different Teams for each GL (they did like 6 for Each Hoenn Gym Leader in Emerald) but GF seems to be to lazy for IT nowadays.
 

Lord Godwin

The Lord of Darkness
Idk if this got posted yet but Centro says Delibird is Ice/Water and Gallade/Kirlia is Fairy/Fighting
Gallade is nice while Delibird is a letdown. Wanted a Ice/Ghost (the Spirit of Winter) as it's a type used only once a removing the Fighting weakness. Unless Delibirds Stats literally double it will not bring anything new to the table.
 

Sαpphire

Johto Champion
As much as I love the scalling idea the biggesrt problem with introducing it to Pokemon is that you do not simply make the Pokemon stronger/higher level but you also need to Play with stuff like number of Poke.kb used, different Evolution stages, movepools etc.
Unless we want to have something like in IoA where you fight a lv 61 Shinx with Spark and Bite. Imagine the total opposite like having a lv 15 Garchomp with Earthquake and Dragon Rush.

Of course GF can create 8 different Teams for each GL (they did like 6 for Each Hoenn Gym Leader in Emerald) but GF seems to be to lazy for IT nowadays.

It would definitely take a mix of techniques - one way to implement it for gym leaders is certainly the eight team model, but for the overworld they could maybe implement some logic to restrict spawns to lists based on ten-level ranges, perhaps. Once you’re in the right range, evolutions start popping up and early stages would become more rare (though never phase out, so you can’t miss them). The one thing that would help them keep a consistent challenge is that the right tools are already built into the game - they can make sure to reference learnsets by level, they can feature egg moves and other special things, they can slowly dial up guaranteed individual values, etc along with level. It certainly wouldn’t be a trivial exercise to get that balance right, though.
 

Luthor

Well-Known Member
Gallade is nice while Delibird is a letdown. Wanted a Ice/Ghost (the Spirit of Winter) as it's a type used only once a removing the Fighting weakness. Unless Delibirds Stats literally double it will not bring anything new to the table.

The description of paradox Pokemon was "They do not evolve, but are very strong in battle". For that to be the case I would suspect there to be a significant stat increase and possibly a good ability. Type wise is not ideal but it does make sense for a penguin.
 

DSDark

Breeder
That is objectively not how “every open world game works.” Skyrim had level scaling over a decade ago, The Witcher 3 has optional level scaling, BOTW has difficulty scaling through ranking up enemies. Scaling with the player’s progress and team would be the right way to make the game feel like you can take any path you choose rather than forcing you on a linear journey if you want any sense of challenge for the majority of the game, and I don’t really get why anyone would be opposed to it. They could even make it optional if there are really any reasons not to have it.
My issue with scaling is that it would remove the in any order aspect. If the first gym You battle is always treated like the first gym and so on then the experience is the same as always, 1-8. I want to be able to go to the eighth gym first and have it be like the eighth gym, a high level. For this to happen, scaling can’t happen and there has to be an order.

If you choose to go to the easy area first, great. However you have to go to the harder area first then that should be an option. Again for this to be an option, there has to be an order.
 

Akashin

Well-Known Member
My issue with scaling is that it would remove the in any order aspect. If the first gym You battle is always treated like the first gym and so on then the experience is the same as always, 1-8. I want to be able to go to the eighth gym first and have it be like the eighth gym, a high level. For this to happen, scaling can’t happen and there has to be an order.

If you choose to go to the easy area first, great. However you have to go to the harder area first then that should be an option. Again for this to be an option, there has to be an order.
But that's not the part of being able to do things in any order that people generally care about. It's the freedom to explore as you please that is the goal; level scaling makes doing so into something you can do freely, rather than being something you're to a degree punished for having done.

I'm not interested in challenging the gyms out of order from a difficulty perspective. I am interested in being able to experience Paldea as I please, without hemorrhaging the challenge (such as it is) of the game in the process. You saying that level scaling removes the in any order aspect misses the fact that that is the entire point; it destroys any notion of there being a set order at all, by allowing you to choose your own way to go about them.
 

DSDark

Breeder
But that's not the part of being able to do things in any order that people generally care about. It's the freedom to explore as you please that is the goal; level scaling makes doing so into something you can do freely, rather than being something you're to a degree punished for having done.

I'm not interested in challenging the gyms out of order from a difficulty perspective. I am interested in being able to experience Paldea as I please, without hemorrhaging the challenge (such as it is) of the game in the process. You saying that level scaling removes the in any order aspect misses the fact that that is the entire point; it destroys any notion of there being a set order at all, by allowing you to choose your own way to go about them.
But that’s not whole a world works. From a gym point of view fine making your own for 1-8 is possible. However for the world itself it doesn’t. Why would the world around change with you, why would it care. There’s going to be tougher and seeker areas all around the map, this is just natural progression.
 

Rune Knight

Well-Known Member
Maybe in the same way that F. Gallade keeps its previous Fairy type, F. Tyranitar will keep its Ground type from its original pre-evolutions as well; making it Ground/Dark.
 

MunchMunch

Well-Known Member
That's for online battle though. Not gym leader battles.
What we're saying is, for the game when a Pokemon is about to attack, the UI turns into a minimalistic version of it. It removes the level and any other info and just shows the HP and name of the Pokemon.
 

Akashin

Well-Known Member
But that’s not whole a world works. From a gym point of view fine making your own for 1-8 is possible. However for the world itself it doesn’t. Why would the world around change with you, why would it care. There’s going to be tougher and seeker areas all around the map, this is just natural progression.
And why does the notion that Area A has weaker Pokemon than Area B need to be written in stone? There are cases (like Victory Road, or a number of post-game areas) where a given area is known to have especially tough Pokemon, but outside of that there's no particular reason why they can't have levels fluctuate based on your progression; the levels were arbitrary to begin with. Area B didn't have stronger Pokemon because the Pokemon there are stronger; it had stronger Pokemon because you went there later in your adventure.

This isn't something that needs to be explained in any sort of in-universe way. It's just a potential facet of open world games at their core, the alternative of which is what we got in Gen VIII with the Wild Area. Personally, I'd prefer gradual progression.
 

masdog

What is the airspeed of an unladen Swellow?
I think it would have been good if they had made it Ice-Dark, sorta like an "Evil Santa" esque thing.
Steel-Dark would be nice so we can have this…

Santa.png
 

Copley Hill Gym

Well-Known Member
I feel like people are wilfully ignoring that level scaling the gyms plus open world means you don’t have a set order to the gyms in the first place.

It’s not gyms 1-8 anymore but a group of 8 gyms that you can do in any order. So difficulty of each gym isn’t reliant on a set order but literally just on which one is your next gym you pick.

The idea you can go straight to the eighth gym in scarlet is a bit of a laugh - that’s going to take a lot of grinding. Why bother?

If you go for the eighth gym first and there’s no level scaling, do we still have the gym restrictions (eg can’t control Pokémon over a certain level until you get X or Y gym badge) in place? If so - god this will not be fun to watch or attempt!
 
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