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Rumors & Leaks - Speculation/Discussion Thread [⚠️PLEASE HIDE STORY SPOILERS⚠️]

kemal07

Well-Known Member
I disagree.

You're portraying this situation as if Diglett/Wigglet and Meowth/Alolan/Galarian Variant are the same situation. They are not. That's the whole point. All the Meowths have a common ancestor and *are* related in that way.

Wigglet and Diglett do not, they merely resemble each other.

Divergent = species with a common ancestor that change to become increasingly different over time (Meowth/Galarian Meowth/Alolan Meowth)
Convergent = unrelated species that develop similar characteristics over time (Diglett/Wigglet)
I agree, well explained.

As for the names of Pokémon, it is probable that the humans have named all Pokémon species through history and time. Similar to how in real life, humans are the ones who have given each animal / creature a name. Because Wiglett and Diglett look very much alike, the concept is probably that the humans in the Pokémon world have also named the two different species with very similar names due to their very similar striking appearances.

I think we have to try and step out from the knowledge and awareness that Nintendo named these Pokémon and put ourselves into an imaginary role as if we are within the Pokémon world to understand why fictional people have given two Pokémon that look almost identical very similar names. Kind of like:

'Oh this Pokémon looks very much like Diglett but it really is a different species of Pokémon. For this reason we shall call this species Wiglett'
 

Rune Knight

Well-Known Member
I agree, well explained.

As for the names of Pokémon, it is probable that the humans have named all Pokémon species through history and time. Similar to how in real life, humans are the ones who have given each animal / creature a name. Because Wiglett and Diglett look very much alike, the concept is probably that the humans in the Pokémon world have also named the two different species with very similar names due to their very similar striking appearances.

I think we have to try and step out from the knowledge and awareness that Nintendo named these Pokémon and put ourselves into an imaginary role as if we are within the Pokémon world to understand why fictional people have given two Pokémon that look almost identical very similar names. Kind of like:

'Oh this Pokémon looks very much like Diglett but it really is a different species of Pokémon. For this reason we shall call this species Wiglett'

Kind of like how the Spongiforma Squarepantsii was named after Spongebob Squarepants.

Though, I do apologize to everyone, my love for lore-expansion kind of obscured me and I looked too deep into it.
 

Pokemon Fan

Knuckle Trainer
And I guess that in a way Pokémon are meant to belong to a completely different domain to the Animal Kingdom; I believe that in the anime's 12th Movie they were even classified as magical creatures; so applying them with the same rules as to that of naturalism is kind of complicated.

We've been provided with a few real-world animal references every now and then, but the only ones that are presently certain are humans.

The fact that humans within the Pokémon World cannot be captured or contained within pokéballs suggests that they are very different indeed.
Even then it's arguable that humans are a special type of Pokemon, one that has simply lost the ability to shrink (since the poke ball itself apparently does not have any special technology that specifically enables it to contain pokemon). They're durable like pokemon, and if Sabrina can be believed then they all have the capacity to develop powers (most simply never do).
 

Autobot N

Tinkaton is the greatest Pokemon ever
Wiglett is fine as a name since "wiggle" is a word but the final evolution better not be Wugtrio, that doesn't mean anything
 

Rune Knight

Well-Known Member
Even then it's arguable that humans are a special type of Pokemon, one that has simply lost the ability to shrink (since the poke ball itself apparently does not have any special technology that specifically enables it to contain pokemon). They're durable like pokemon, and if Sabrina can be believed then they all have the capacity to develop powers (most simply never do).

You're right; and we can go into this further by pointing out the human-like pokémon such as Machop and Mr. Mime.
 

Wulava

danger chili pepper
Staff member
Moderator
I honestly doubt Wiglett's evolution will be a multiple-bodied specimen like Dugtrio. But I do think it will be VEEEEEEEEEERRRRRY LONG. Another Alolan Exeggutor.
 

Sponge

Well-Known Member
I honestly doubt Wiglett's evolution will be a multiple-bodied specimen like Dugtrio. But I do think it will be VEEEEEEEEEERRRRRY LONG. Another Alolan Exeggutor.

I hope that Wiglett will change more upon evolution and not just look like Dugtrio. I feel like it's more likely that it'll be very reminiscent of Dugtrio though.

I feel like that's sort of the point of them since they're based on convergent evolution, the concept probably wouldn't make sense if the evolution doesn't look similar to Dugtrio.

Even though it would be more true to convergent evolution I think I'd be more interested in these Pokémon if they only started out looking similar and then changed upon evolution.

Didn't Khu hint at the evolution being called Wugtrio? So I'm pretty confident it'll just look like the Wiglett version of Dugtrio.
 

Pudimon

Certified Pudding Monster
I hope that Wiglett will change more upon evolution and not just look like Dugtrio. I feel like it's more likely that it'll be very reminiscent of Dugtrio though.

I feel like that's sort of the point of them since they're based on convergent evolution, the concept probably wouldn't make sense if the evolution doesn't look similar to Dugtrio.

Even though it would be more true to convergent evolution I think I'd be more interested in these Pokémon if they only started out looking similar and then changed upon evolution.

Didn't Khu hint at the evolution being called Wugtrio? So I'm pretty confident it'll just look like the Wiglett version of Dugtrio.
if I recall correclty, it was said that it looks like a bunch of eels entangled
 
Yeah, this is exactly what they are, though apparently Pearl, someone who sumarizes Kaka's info also doesn't like the term convergent species because of the Tentacool mushroom? Either way; its better than RFake. Regardless, I don't think these Pokemon need a specific term, but it just shouldn't be RFake. I think its more about if there is a term, it should sound like something TPCI would actually use
Yeah, the thing is that convergent evolution refers to species developing similar traits to fill the same or similar niches as each other. Diglett and Wiglett are already stretching it a bit, as "it partially lives underground" is a very broad niche.
As for Tentacool and notTentacool, I find it hard to imagine them sharing any niche at all. In that case, their similarities would be a coincidence, not due to them occupying similar niches, and thus it wouldn't really be appropriate to call it convergent evolution.
 
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Litleonid

Well-Known Member
Yeah, the thing is that convergent evolution refers to species developing similar traits to fill the same or similar niches as each other. Diglett and Wiglett are already stretching it a bit, as "it partially lives underground" is a very broad niche.
As for Tentacool and notTentacool, I find it hard to imagine them sharing any niche at all. In that case, their similarities would be a coincidence, not due to them occupying similar niches, and thus it wouldn't really be appropriate to call it convergent evolution.
Either way, RFake isn't a good term. It implies the Pokemon are fake or artificial. It also doesn't sound like a canonical term. I hope a name never sticks cause we don't really need one, but anything is better than RFake.
 

Rune Knight

Well-Known Member
Either way, RFake isn't a good term. It implies the Pokemon are fake or artificial. It also doesn't sound like a canonical term. I hope a name never sticks cause we don't really need one, but anything is better than RFake.

I see what you mean and I do feel guilty for constantly referring to the term myself, but in our defense it was coined to us from the start.

Nonetheless I do apologize.
 

Rune Knight

Well-Known Member
You don't need to apologize. I just don't think RFake is the right term to use for these 2 evolutionary lines of Pokemon.

Hopefully they won't actually be called that.

Since I do like new categories though, do you think that "Convergent Pokémon" or "Convergent Species" would work better? It would also include the Diglett and Tentacool lines.
 

keithpetrosky

Well-Known Member
I’ll post this again with more detail as nobody replied and I think this is information nobody discussed.

I don’t like the Pokémon type of Wiglett or it’s design to match.

For one, it’s called a garden eel Pokémon but it looks more like a sandworm or tube worm Pokémon. Garden eels have gills, tiny side fins, and a long back fin and tail and teeth in a jaw. I’ve yet to see any of those on Wiglett. I think they made a big mistake with its description.

Idk why they make it look like diglett if it’s not related that just seems dumb. Make it look like an eel.

Lastly, I hope to god it’s evolution won’t be Wigtrio, a tangled up 3 headed worm. ‍There’s been rumors and I think that is such a lazy design.

If they want to go convergent species, make Coral snake/Scarlett king snake Pokémon two different species with same trait. That’s something unique and works.


What garden eels really look like
gorgonsia-drawing588.jpg

Wiglett-Pokemon-Scarlet-and-Violet-Official-Artwork.jpg.webp

Fan art, but much more of a garden eel representation.
_122_nageel_v2_by_smiley_fakemon_db0fqk3-pre.png
 
Either way, RFake isn't a good term. It implies the Pokemon are fake or artificial. It also doesn't sound like a canonical term. I hope a name never sticks cause we don't really need one, but anything is better than RFake.
Judging by the leaks they won't really be a group acknowledged in-game, but I do think it will be useful to have a category for Wiglett and notTentacool. And as always with fan terms, only time will tell which one wins out in the end.
Even in 'convergent species' might not be appropriate for all of them it seems to be the one gaining the most traction, and I wouldn't be surprised if it became the norm. It's not like fan terms aren't filled with inaccuracies like 'regional rodent' and so on.

I just hope it isn't something that will lead to endless discussions. Like with SM vs SuMo, SS vs SwSh, and so on. As ultimately it doesn't really matter much.
 
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