What are your hot takes on the anime?

[Mythical-Moonlight]

Poor Bayleef

Poor Latias

 

[PaperCutVictim]

- While it should have at least been speculated upon, I feel like Ash and Pikachu temporarily getting the 10 Million Volt Thunderbolt Z-move and knowing how to activate it without anyone teaching them when rescuing Lusamine implied that the Z-move is completely their own. After all, the Z-move is unique to the Cap Pikachu, and in the anime, that Cap Pikachu would be Ash's. Your mileage may vary on that, but it would be cool if it's something completely their own, as Ash-Greninja back in XY was already a thing, but hadn't been seen for centuries, and the Dusk Lycanroc was extremely rare, but if I remember right, it was at least a known phenomenon in universe.

- This is a take accompanied by many huffs of copium, but if Ash-Greninja has indeed been retconned, that would mean Ash's Greninja is ridiculously powerful since it would mean it was a base form Greninja going head to head with Alain's monstrously powerful Mega Charizard X, not to mention defeating Wulfric's Mega Abomasnow and Sawyer's Mega Sceptile beforehand, and being able to surprise Diantha's Gardevoir to the point she felt the need to Mega Evolve against a base form Greninja, and still taking some clean hits anyway. Maybe Greninja fans should hope the form has been retconned (please no)

- Somewhat related to the above, but just something I've been chewing on (more copium has been inhaled): maybe it's not so much Ash-Greninja getting retconned, but that the flashbacks were actually Goh's imagination. Goh certainly knows what a Froakie, Frogadier, and Greninja look like. He would be able to imagine just about everything Ash told him about his adventures with Greninja, except for the Ash-Greninja form. He may not have even heard it could possibly exist. He may also think that Ash saying it was like he and Greninja became each other is more of a figure of speech, that their hearts and thoughts became aligned and they fought as one. Which... is true; that's what was needed. But Goh wouldn't know that there was an actual change to Greninja's appearance as well unless Ash told him. Which I don't believe he ever did.

Of course, if this is true, that would mean there was indeed a seriously wasted opportunity to show it in the Greninja and Lucario episode. Or maybe they haven't tapped into it for so long they forgot how to use it at will, and are going to need to KO an opposing pokemon to activate it from now on, who knows.

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

Poor Latias

You mean Bianca

 

[Mythical-Moonlight]

You mean Bianca

Latias was the one who actually wanted him tho

 

[U.N. Owen]

Power scaling is not the science the fandom thinks it is. It is a narrative tool

 

[DayQuil95]

Power scaling is not the science the fandom thinks it is. It is a narrative tool

I agree, but I also think that some people should let others talk about it as much as they want, as long as it's within conscious usage. I mean, I've already seen cases of people just wanting to talk about a hypothetical battle between two characters only for someone to barge in and use the totally not overused Stan Lee quote, followed by another dude saying that powerscaling doesn't matter, like sure some might think that, but others just want to have fun discussing that stuff.

This was kinda unrelated to what you said though, so sorry for derailing from the topic lmao.

 

[U.N. Owen]

I agree, but I also think that some people should let others talk about it as much as they want, as long as it's within conscious usage. I mean, I've already seen cases of people just wanting to talk about a hypothetical battle between two characters only for someone to barge in and use the totally not overused Stan Lee quote, followed by another dude saying that powerscaling doesn't matter, like sure some might think that, but others just want to have fun discussing that stuff.

This was kinda unrelated to what you said though, so sorry for derailing from the topic lmao.

The Stan Lee quote is not overused rather than it is misused. Fights in comics. movies, and shows are all about how they fit in the narrative (and how they look). In a vacuum such as r/whowouldwin, narrative goes out the door.

 

[DayQuil95]

The Stan Lee quote is not overused rather than it is misused. Fights in comics. movies, and shows are all about how they fit in the narrative (and how they look). In a vacuum such as r/whowouldwin, narrative goes out the door.

Misused it definitely is but within the context of battles in a vacuum such as the one people like to debate in these contexts, it also ends up being quite overused. But yeah, the narrative has no place when debating about feats and character portrayal in that context, which's why Alola is often not seen as a strong region in these threads.

 

[PaperCutVictim]

- Most people who ***** about how often Pikachu takes out ground-type pokemon with electric attacks can't name the last time Pikachu actually did that. Hapu's Mudsdale doesn't count; it got drenched by seawater first.

- Serena's battle record is completely irrelevant because she wasn't a battler. Whether she should have been or not is a matter of opinion and an entirely different story.

- Swellow's Guts ability should have been utilized more often. A pokemon that gets tougher the more the odds stack up against it is perfect for Ash's style.

- Serena's Sylveon should have been given the ability Pixilate. Swift with pink sparkles and the like would have been really cute and fit well with Serena's performances.

 

[Sham]

• The hate Leon gets is somewhat extreme.
• The Master Class tournament is getting Unova League bad-- yeah I said it. Hopefully the semi finals saves it and the finale but yeah
• Power scaling has it's place, as the writers definitely places a hierarchy on strength but I just feel like most fans distort it
• People only shout "DEM" when it's convenient despite it sometimes being way more prevalent than called out
• Saying that Pokeshipping is only a creation of the dub is straight up incorrect
• Strategies and strength both a play a part. You can't strategize you're way out of being extremely weaker than your opponent and vice versa you can't get over strategies with brute strength
• I truly believe most of the flack Lillie got was because she essentially replaced Serena
• Just because Misty appeared already in SM, doesn't mean she shouldn't get an appearance now
• Chloe's arc was dragged out entirely too long and essentially left us off where she started with Eevee

 

[Morax]

While I'm open to the idea of Ash feeling something a bit more than friendship for Serena (I don't mind most Ash ships in general), I am of the opinion that some of his behaviors taken as subtle hints of reciprocating aren't out of a romantic nature, but a natural progression of his character (and yes, I am of the opinion there is no multiverse except in the movies and that one XY episode; this has been the same Ash the whole way).

In AG, he had a few instances of getting impatient with May when something she was doing was holding him up from getting to his next gym. That, and there were a few times he blew off watching her Contests (which you would expect from a supportive friend) to go train his pokemon (which is understandable from a serious pokemon trainer). Also, he can be charitably described as resistant to suggestions from May or even Brock on training, and could be a bit of an ass at times.

In DP, we saw that his stance on that was different, and actually drew inspiration from Dawn's training or the Contests she participates in, which he doesn't blow off and it pays off, as spin dodge and counter shield are potent tactics for him. He did get impatient with her sometimes, but I don't believe many (if any) were about her holding them up, like how he was at times with May. He also hadn't slid backwards at all from his AG form; if anything, he's better for almost all of it, especially at the end. Granted, I guess you can argue part of it was because Paul was a diametrically opposed rival and that the intensity of their rivalry alone made him stay sharp and get better. Speaking of which, I also do feel that he got influenced a bit by Paul's emphasis on natural strength and talent as well. Infernape, who is often seen as a symbol of his triumph over Paul, was actually a case of them both being right. Ash was right because it was his emphasis on love and bonding that drew out his true strength, not brutal training. But Paul was right in that Infernape's Blaze was something truly special and something that should be harnessed. Though really, Ash should have had an inkling about the importance of natural talent to begin with... I doubt an ordinary Pikachu given the same training, experience, and love as Ash's could come anywhere near his monstrous heights. But that's a different topic altogether. Moving on.

In BW, it doesn't really come up as Iris's goal of becoming a Dragon Master has no interference with Ash's gym quest, and she is also very supportive of him. They also often spar each other as fellow battlers. However, I do think the date time he spent with her in Nimbasa indicates that he's more relaxed about his gym badges. As in, he's not in a constant rush to collect all his gym badges and isn't going to be an ass about them, an improvement over AG Ash. There are also plenty of times that he and Iris are just messing around instead of training or the like. He's also open to a lot of the things Cilan wants to participate in too. Ironically, his Unova gym quest ends with him needing to wait 3 months for the League to start, so it finished faster than his other ones despite his more relaxed tempo.

And then we come to Kalos. Ash is very open to what his companions want to do. 2.5 Serena-related examples I can remember off the top of my head:

1) Ash delaying training for the battle against Grant to humor Serena and they ended up having that adventure that involved the underwater shipwreck.

2) Ash purposely delaying his last gym so they could go to, if I remember right, Serena's Master Class.

2.5) his gym match with Valerie getting delayed, so he humors her by going to Valerie's boutique when he could have easily said "you can go, I'm going to go train with my team" instead. Half credit because first opportunity that comes up, he, Sawyer, and Clemont bail to have a pokemon battle, kek.

As I said earlier, while these are seen as hints by some, I see it as more of a culmination of Ash through the previous series to that point. He's become more patient with his companions, he's less in a hurry to keep collecting badges (even though XY is arguably where we've seen him most determined to win the League), and I think this ties in very closely to when he said that nothing they experience is pointless. I have doubts AG Ash would have agreed. OS Ash would have agreed, but probably would have agreed for the wrong reasons. DP and BW Ash would be much more open to the idea. His philosophy is vindicated too in that, in the first example, Froakie's escape from the vortex was what gave him the idea of Rock Tomb Climb as a way to counter Grant, which he and his team train for and Froakie utilized successfully, their momentum only being halted because Grant played a card that Ash didn't know he had: Draco Meteor. This led to Ash and Pikachu's brilliant adaptation to make Draco Meteor Climb, which got used again against Korrina's Mega Lucario. Different topic altogether, but I always loved that one.

Don't get me wrong; I've got nothing against Serena, and have no interest in bashing her or Amourshipping. Just saying that stuff like Ash delaying his gyms/training for Serena is less about feelings for Serena herself and more of Ash maturing over his adventures. Granted, I've got nothing for Ash being quite gentlemanly toward Serena, like taking her hand to help her cross a river. Though, I think he was quite gentlemanly toward Lillie too, and I wouldn't be surprised if he ever did the same for her, but that's a different story.

Kinda late to the party but wanted to clear a few things. When talking about Ash’s hints, the ribbon he gave serena and the compliment he gave her after she won her first tripokalon (“you were looking really pretty in that!”) are the most prominent one. Delaying his gym battle is a pretty weak hint and i’m pretty sure not a lot of people consider it a hint of reciprocation. ( pretty count : 3 )

That being said, these are still hints at the end of the day. Anybody who believes ash secretly had a crush on serena (or anybody) is deluding themselves. That’s not how his character was written. He’s a chaste hero, he’s supposed to reciprocate after he grows up.

 

[DatsRight]

- Serena's battle record is completely irrelevant because she wasn't a battler. Whether she should have been or not is a matter of opinion and an entirely different story.

I think that would apply if they wasn't constantly put into situations she had to battle. XY was very action focused and a lot of Serena's episodes tended to involve a bad guy or training spar. Lillie isn't a battler either for example, but I will say even with her awkward spotlight, it tended not to overfocus on actual battling and more on relevent parts of her character most of the time. Not to mention they made the clear point that when she was pit against an expert she got her butt handed to her. Serena kept getting put into an occupation that wasn't really relevent to her, and yet could have the spooky glasses apocalypse rise around her and things will contrive so she's the only one who never takes a single hit.

I think the whole powerscaling and whatnot will always be a controversy because really battling is the most focused goal and development pivot of the entire show, more so than even capturing Pokemon which is often a game of chance. Seeing an experienced character like Clemont or Brock try constantly and keep suffering the Worf Effect while a character like Serena is treated as a halfway decent battler by the end of their run despite never really aiming to be or even losing more than once will always have a pinch of unfairness to it.

I think it's also why stuff like Ash and TR switching competence scale in BW was considered so harmful, since it means a large amount of Ash's development doesn't really matter in the long run, they can just change it whenever they want, making it feel like a farce.

I think being a little loose with it is fine at times, but it makes sense to keep SOME consistency and scaling if so much of the show's development is revolved around this. Heck even an arc revolved around it sometimes being unfair has potential since really that's how it works in terms of inherent talent sometimes.

 

[janejane6178]

• The hate Leon gets is somewhat extreme.
• The Master Class tournament is getting Unova League bad-- yeah I said it. Hopefully the semi finals saves it and the finale but yeah
• Power scaling has it's place, as the writers definitely places a hierarchy on strength but I just feel like most fans distort it
• People only shout "DEM" when it's convenient despite it sometimes being way more prevalent than called out
• Saying that Pokeshipping is only a creation of the dub is straight up incorrect
• Strategies and strength both a play a part. You can't strategize you're way out of being extremely weaker than your opponent and vice versa you can't get over strategies with brute strength
• I truly believe most of the flack Lillie got was because she essentially replaced Serena
• Just because Misty appeared already in SM, doesn't mean she shouldn't get an appearance now
• Chloe's arc was dragged out entirely too long and essentially left us off where she started with Eevee

I don’t agree that Lillie replaced Serena
In my opinion Lillie replaced Alexa as a background/supporting female character

 

[Random Man2]

The Pokémon Animé is terrible and not canon.

 

[Gingertail24]

• The hate Leon gets is somewhat extreme.
• The Master Class tournament is getting Unova League bad-- yeah I said it. Hopefully the semi finals saves it and the finale but yeah
• Power scaling has it's place, as the writers definitely places a hierarchy on strength but I just feel like most fans distort it
• People only shout "DEM" when it's convenient despite it sometimes being way more prevalent than called out
• Saying that Pokeshipping is only a creation of the dub is straight up incorrect
• Strategies and strength both a play a part. You can't strategize you're way out of being extremely weaker than your opponent and vice versa you can't get over strategies with brute strength
• I truly believe most of the flack Lillie got was because she essentially replaced Serena
• Just because Misty appeared already in SM, doesn't mean she shouldn't get an appearance now
• Chloe's arc was dragged out entirely too long and essentially left us off where she started with Eevee

The Chloe one isn't exactly a hot take lol
I think it sucks that her arc conclusion is already something she knew way before episode 120. That she has endless possibilities.

It sucks that the activities she tried out, outside of contest, weren't all that interesting. Like I wanted her to try pokemon doctor, researcher, battler, breeder etc. Instead of flower arrangements

 

[janejane6178]

Ftfy

WONDERFUL.
Fully agree

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

The Pokémon Animé is terrible and not canon.

Post DP series that is including XY/XYZ.

 

[DayQuil95]

Ftfy

Didn't know we were in r/pokemonanime

 

[janejane6178]

I cried when xyz ended
Especially when I knew what was coming next, horrible

 

[Satoshi & Touko]

I can't believe I have yet to post in this thread, but alas, here's my hot take:

I believe it's high time the anime kicked their current target demographic to the curb and focused the anime strictly towards teens/young adults. Or at least create a separate anime targeted at this group.