Sableye discussion thread

[megawurmple]

Sableye

Sableye took a hit in gen 6 with the introduction of Fairy types finally giving him a weakness. However, I feel that he still has a lot of potential to make himself known in OU. His prankster ability gives him access to priority Taunt, priority Will-O-Wisp, priority Recover, and so on. Knock Off and Will-O-Miss have both had slight boosts in gen 6, making Sableye a more reliable support pokemon or staller.

However, he unfortunately has abysmal stats, and although Will-O-Wisp allows him to take physical hits, he doesn't have much to help his pretty sub-par special defense.

So what do you guys think? Could Sableye be viable in OU? What moveset should he run, and what partners should he have? I'd like to see what you come up with.

Sets

Spoiler: The Standard Set

Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpDef
Careful/Calm Nature
-Taunt
-Recover
-Will-o-Wisp
-Knock Off/Foul Play

Since Sableye tries to burn everything in sight, specially defensive is the most common setup right now, and what you'll see most often in UU. Taunt prevents it from being taunted itself, in addition to putting a damper on stall. Priority recover helps keep it alive longer than one might think, letting it rack up burn damage. Knock Off has more utility in stripping non-megas of their items, and can deal a solid chunk of damage as well. Foul Play is more rarely used, but has some niche use against things like Darmanitan on the switch, but generally Knock Off is better due to its ability to screw up even favorable switch-ins, since most non-megas hate losing their items. Careful can give a little extra damage for Knock Off, while Calm minimizes the damage from opposing Foul Plays and Confusion (neither of which are all that common, but meh). Overall, it's the Sableye you'll see most in UU, even at the higher parts of the ladder.

 

[KillerDraco]

Unfortunately, Sableye has a lot of things in Gen 6 OU that make his job a lot harder. The existence of the Mega Charizards is one, as he really can't do anything at all to them. Even specially defensive Sableye gets 1HKO'ed by MegaZard Y, can't burn it, can't knock off its item, and the only thing it has that does any kind of damage is Foul Play, which only 3HKOs. Although it can be an annoyance to bulky Mega Charizard X due to taunting Will-o-Wisp and Roost, and Foul Play 2HKOs, it still can't burn it, and Flare Blitz can 1HKO standard Sableye.

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sableye in Sun: 295-348 (97 - 114.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Sableye: 363-427 (119.4 - 140.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Talonflame is largely in the same boat, although it doesn't like having its item knocked off as much. It can't be burned though, and Gale Wings Brave Bird can circumvent Prankster to pick off a weakened Sableye before it can Recover.

Another issue it has is the existence of Espeon and its Magic Bounce. Although Knock Off can do a huge chunk of damage to it, Sableye gets royally screwed if its Will-o-Wisp or Taunt gets bounced back at it, so it has to be very careful with when Espeon is on the other team, lest its attacks be bounced back at it and cripple it.

And of course, Sableye's typing has always left a lot to be desired. Although it used to have the famed "no weakness" combo, it really lacks resistances. With only two immunities to Fighting (which it appreciates) and Psychic (which isn't all that common), and a resistance to Poison, most strong STABs can 2HKO it, so it has trouble switching in, lest it be forced to Recover over and over. Its absolutely pitiful base stats do little to help it, either, since even with full investment it's pretty frail.

Of course, now it does have a weakness to Fairy, which in all honesty isn't as big of a deal as a lot of people make it out to be, since it can burn Azumarill and Mega Mawile to render them useless for the rest of the match. Sylveon and Togekiss can give it problems, but it can also taunt them to prevent them from utilizing cleric capabilities or thunder waving everything in sight to ParaFlinch, so they're not perfectly safe switch-ins by any means. But even so, a Moonblast or Pixilate Hyper voice is something Sableye has trouble stomaching. Sylveon gets a bonus mention for being able to heal the status Sableye spreads, although usually when Sableye isn't in due to priority taunt.

That said, Sableye deals a bit better in UU, where it can shut down things like Blissey, Forretress, Mew, etc., and its burns make it a great check to things like Mienshao, Aerodactyl, etc. The general power creep is a little lower as well, but it has to watch out for all the nuclear powered fire types running around, such as Darmanitan, Victini, Infernape, etc. which don't care about being burned and can break through it with their raw power.

Standard Sableye set is still standard.

Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpDef
Careful/Calm Nature
-Taunt
-Recover
-Will-o-Wisp
-Knock Off/Foul Play

Since Sableye tries to burn everything in sight, specially defensive is the most common setup right now, and what you'll see most often in UU. Taunt prevents it from being taunted itself, in addition to putting a damper on stall. Priority recover helps keep it alive longer than one might think, letting it rack up burn damage. Knock Off has more utility in stripping non-megas of their items, and can deal a solid chunk of damage as well. Foul Play is more rarely used, but has some niche use against things like Darmanitan on the switch, but generally Knock Off is better due to its ability to screw up even favorable switch-ins, since most non-megas hate losing their items. Careful can give a little extra damage for Knock Off, while Calm minimizes the damage from opposing Foul Plays and Confusion (neither of which are all that common, but meh). Overall, it's the Sableye you'll see most in UU, even at the higher parts of the ladder.

 

[Zachmac]

Is it too early to speculate about it's mega evolution? Because with high defense, recover, magic bounce, taunt, will-o-wisp, and knock off, it's looking like it's going to make a great anit-wall/stall-breaker.

But I don't think that Sableye as it is now is entirely beyond help in OU. I used it back when Mega Kanga was running around, and I found it being surprisingly useful against other threats. The new fairy type wasn't as huge of a hit as you'd think, since they're still relatively rare, and taunt/will-o-wisp made it great at messing around with opposing walls. It's still very niche, but if you've got another way to handle offensive fire types(like Heatran), it's actually fairly decent.

 

[KillerDraco]

Is it too early to speculate about it's mega evolution? Because with high defense, recover, magic bounce, taunt, will-o-wisp, and knock off, it's looking like it's going to make a great anit-wall/stall-breaker.

I'd say it's a little too early. Maybe once we see the base stats, since we can only speculate about the exact stat changes. I think the speculation would be more at home in the OR/AS section until we know for certain.

Time will tell though.

But I don't think that Sableye as it is now is entirely beyond help in OU. I used it back when Mega Kanga was running around, and I found it being surprisingly useful against other threats. The new fairy type wasn't as huge of a hit as you'd think, since they're still relatively rare, and taunt/will-o-wisp made it great at messing around with opposing walls. It's still very niche, but if you've got another way to handle offensive fire types(like Heatran), it's actually fairly decent.

I'd agree that it's not useless in OU, but it's definitely very much a niche Pokemon. It makes an excellent check to Mega Medicham, given it's immune to both of its STABs and burns it to neutralize Pure Power. Likewise, as I had mentioned earlier, the physical fairies dare not switch in on it, due to the risk of being burned, so really only the special fairies want to be in on it. That said, it's still pretty frail, and can be 2HKO'ed (if not 1HKO'ed) by a lot of things in the tier, especially those that either aren't bothered by a burn or can't be burned period. Even so, it's definitely got a highly disruptive presence with its ability to stall-break, cripple physical attackers, and knock off items. It may not be something you can slap on every team and make it work due to its frailty and lack of offensive presence, but if you're looking for something annoying your opponent to death, Sableye doesn't have a lot of competition.

 

[Disaster_Lord]

I preffer a physically defensive aproach for Sableye in OU with a bold Nature, he was.not meant to eat special attacks anyway so if you capitalize in its ability to soak up knockoffs and treathen to burn or foulplay firetypes or guts pokemon in the switch in you migth find him as an useful mon for balanced teams and stall ones.

 

[megawurmple]

Thanks for the input. Obviously Sableye has quite a few counters, but he still has a decent amount of potential. Who should he be partnered with in order to maximize that potential?

 

[ger9119]

Thanks for the input. Obviously Sableye has quite a few counters, but he still has a decent amount of potential. Who should he be partnered with in order to maximize that potential?

Sub/Toxic Aegislash works nicely as it can sponge fairy attacks from special attackers like Clefable

 

[Zachmac]

Thanks for the input. Obviously Sableye has quite a few counters, but he still has a decent amount of potential. Who should he be partnered with in order to maximize that potential?

I mentioned Heatran before, because it handles fire types like MegaZard X(though it must be wary of EQ) and Talonflame. Chansey and Blissey look like they should work fairly well, since Sableye's main focus is crippling the opponent's physical attackers. As an added bonus, Sableye covers the fighting weakness of all three pokemon I mentioned.

 

[megawurmple]

I like Heatran as a partner, and Blissey could be effective too. I've never seen a SubToxic Aegislash before, but that could certainly be interesting. As you said, Sableye mainly struggles with fire types, so bulky waters could also be effective. I'm thinking Vaporeon or Tentacruel. The ideas here suggest that Sableye would work best in a stall team, with a lot of other bulky pokes to sponge damage and allow Sableye to irritate everyone to death. Thoughts?