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Same-sex marriage and gay rights in general: Yes or No?

Discussion in 'Debate Forum' started by Chozo Tiger, May 24, 2010.

?

Your stance on gay marriage and gay rights?

  1. Same-sex marriage; Gay rights all the way.

    75.1%
  2. I support civil unions, not marriage; Gay rights all the way.

    7.6%
  3. Not civil unions nor marriage; Gay rights all the way.

    1.8%
  4. Not civil unions nor marriage; Against gay rights.

    7.3%
  5. Homosexual activity of any kind should be punishable by law

    8.2%
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  1. Grei

    Grei not the color

    Ewww! I think homosexuality is gross so I want it illegal eeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwww

    This makes you sound like an ignorant little child. Every post you make denounces any credibility you try and make for yourself, with all of them being chock full of hypocrisies like this one.

    Oh yes. How dare they not just settle for having fewer rights. How dare they.

    Again, hypocrisy. In your book, absolutely no one is allowed to marriage.

    Really, I encourage you to read your posts before you post them. They're all so full of contradictions. Your bigotry is so blatant it's pathetic.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Like I said, as if you have any freaking clue what you're talking about.

    Again, bigotry. Putting heterosexuals on a pedestal doesn't make you seem any less prejudiced.

    Uh, no. What you're witnessing is a human flaw, not a homosexual flaw. Don't act as though all heterosexuals are angels. You certainly are not one. If you're denouncing homosexuals for a sex-neutral personality trait, you are very, very confused. Did you ever think that maybe, just maybe if you treat them with respect, as humans, they might show kindness in return?

    So then you claim you aren't discriminating and then claim we're all just bad people? Nice tactic.

    You're a monstrous bigot if I've ever seen one.

    I think just about everyone here is going to continue to denounce your "argument" until you come up with some viable reasons and justification for your position. All I've read this entire time is, with no exaggeration, this:

     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2010
  2. CSolarstorm

    CSolarstorm New spicy version

    That's horrible. She broke a state record and suddenly everyone was concentrating on that? That's the way it is though with some people; when they see a same-sex gesture, they immediately blow it out of proportion and turn it into something perverted and scandalous in their minds, because they're the ones that are afraid of the idea.

    Plus we've got all this programming in the media and in ancient texts and even literary circles that connects homosexuality to sociopathy; and that's actually a common symptom of being oppressed for so long if you look at other civil rights struggles. A century ago it was common to think everything women did was either too gentle or too cruel, and everything black people did was either inept or too heavyhanded. In fact, it's all too apparent that some people still think this way today. I see what you meant earlier about fear being the primary motivation for being against gay rights.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2010
  3. John13wb

    John13wb Earthbound Hero

    Oh, I see, so you only use the 'its not a choice' argument when it pertains to homosexuals. Too bad that pedophiles will argue the same point about themselves and children. And, just like you, they'll use faulty science to prove that they can't help being kiddy fiddlers.

    As for consent, thats why pedophiles are trying to lower the age of consent. So that children can say yes, which is just as disturbing as a gay rights bill passing in my state.

    Because when they manage to pass that law that lowers the age of consent to 16, 14, even 10, it will be a sad day in the world, knowing all morals have been thrown out the window.

    So yeah, the whole pedophile argument isn't a joke. Pedophiles and gays are about on the same level.
     
  4. Mangoes

    Mangoes Grand Empress

    Wow, this post is sooooo offensive and rude. Are you this offensive in real life?

    Ok, honey, pedophiles can't help being attracted to children, but they can help not abusing them. The difference between Pedos and Homos (and I'm honestly a bit shocked that I have to do this) is that Pedos harm non-consentual children. Gays screw around with consenting adults, and it doesn't harm anyone, even if you think it's nasty and gross, which is pretty rude.

    Ok, seriously, stop comparing Gays to Pedos. Gays harm no one (unless they're evil, you know), Pedos harm children. See the difference?

    Honey, if I were you, I wouldn't be talking about morals.

    Darling, you're offensive to my mind, my emotions, my way of life, seriously, gays are not pedos. Not even close. It's offensive that you would even say they're similar.

    EDIT: as a gay woman myself, I can't help liking girls. It's not a choice, any gay man/woman will tell you that (unless it's the usualy ***** kissing up girls to get guys).
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2010
  5. GhostAnime

    GhostAnime Searching for her...

    pedophiles aren't going to be successful in lowering age of consent.

    and no they aren't on the same level. children can't legally consent. gay adults can.

    address the arguments and stop being pathetic.
     
  6. Antiyonder

    Antiyonder Well-Known Member

    Children, even one mature for their age don't have a full understanding on marriage/commitment. A homosexual man and woman at the age of 18/over, can comprehend what they are saying yes to. Now a child can say yes, but they won't have a full understanding what they say yes to.

    Again, this is why you need to think over your reasoning very carefully. So that way when you post it, no one will be able to argue against it and disprove it.
     
  7. GaZsTiC

    GaZsTiC Alternating

    Are you for real?! Children do not consent when being abused.

    There is no such thing as an "age of consent". There is an age where it is legal for you to have sex, but without consent, it is simply rape.

    And anyways, in the UK, you can have sex when you're 16. I am 16. I had sex two nights ago. With another guy. How does that make you feel, eh?
     
  8. Grei

    Grei not the color

    I take back what I said last to Zenotwapal; YOU are the biggest bigot I've ever seen.

    Pedophilia is proven to be a disorder. Homosexuality is proven to be a sexual orientation. Unless heterosexuality is a disorder as well, your argument is moot.

    Pedophilia can be treated and cured. Homosexuality cannot. Homosexuality is ingrained into your entire being, yet pedophilia is a disorder that can be treated. If homosexuality and pedophilia are both disorders, faults in the brain, why are they not both classified as such by any credible (aka non-religious) scientific source?

    All of that being said, what are you honestly saying to prove that pedophiles and homosexuals are on the same level? I've argued my point, but really all you've said is "pedophiles don't choose to like children because they're messed up". Bigotry. Try actually proving this.

    Our "faulty science" is only faulty to you because you're too set in your ignorant prejudice.



    I can understand where you're coming from. I found that, as a younger child, I was racist. I disliked and feared black people. However, I eventually grew up and learned that black people are people, too--I realized how wrong I was. I can understand that ignorance can lead to fear and hatred against a group of people. I get that you're afraid of homosexuals. I get that you find them gross. I get it.

    I just think you're wrong. Twisted, prejudiced, and wrong. When I was young I was racist. Then, I grew up and grew out of my ignorance. I suggest you do the same. Ignoring scientific evidence against your claims doesn't make you anything more than a stubborn bigot.
     
  9. Fused

    Fused Shun the nonbeliever

    *sighs*

    They can argue all they want, but pedophiles don't have the official backing of respected organizations like the APA. There's also no science at all that supports the adults are naturally attracted to sexually-immature children, unlike the case of homosexuality. If the intent is to have sex... wouldn't you isntinctively look for someone who is capable of sex? And that's another important point: never before have I heard of a pedophile who wanted to have a romantic, emotional and physical relationship with a child; they wanted the child for sex and pleasure, or they at least fantasize about deriving sex and pleasure from a child; they wanted the child for sexual exploitation.

    The science for homosexuality also isn't that faulty; something isn't faulty just because it doesn't agree with you.

    But any attempts won't pass. We understand now that children, until a certain (although varying) age, can't really make informed decisions about sex, especially with people who are lifetimes older than they are. We set the age of consent to an age we believe children can be reasonably responsible and completely accountable for their decisions. 18-21 is about the time the human brain becomes as developed as it will be, and that is why that is the age of legal standing, because that is when people typically are completely capable and responsible of making their own decisions. Before sexual maturity, children don't udnerstand exactly what is going on, so they can't make an informed decision on something they don't udnerstand.

    The American government defines sexual orientation as consensual sexuality. Play that into the above.

    How is two women marrying exactly as disturbing as an old man molesting a seven-year-old? Okay.

    If it is lowered, I honestly can't see it going past 16, but I've already explained why it most likely won't even do that.

    Pedophilia is still considered a mental disorder.

    Pedophilia is also a fascination, a fixation. It is not an act. Homosexuality is both a fixation and an act. Heterosexuality is both. Sexual orientation is both. Pedophilia is not both. Follow?

    Not all pedophiles have sex with children. Not all child abusers are pedophiles.

    I could go further, but I'll just post this.

    Pedophilia is sexual exploitation, and the only thing that could change that won't change.

    No they aren't, for the above reasons. And for the hundreds of other reasons that were most likely posted during this message or following it. I already see a couple things I should have explained better, but...
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2010
  10. J.T.

    J.T. ಠ_ಠ

    Who says you can't be both? You? Because newsflash: You don't get to define what is and isn't a church.

    I want you to do me a favor. Go to Google and type in "define:church". See what comes up. Omit everything that doesn't relate to the word church in the religious sense. Now tell me which of the definitions on that page do not fit the Westboro Baptist Church.

    That's right, keep throwing insults at your opponents, you look totally mature, level-headed, open-minded, and reasonable when you\re calling people names.

    Of course, when you see one couple do this (and I doubt you ever saw even one couple do this), it means all gay couples must do exactly the same thing. And therefore we can deny marriage to all gays because this one couple you totally saw in a park or something decided to have a quick peck on the cheek.

    Or serve openly in the military. Or hold down a job without fear of being fired for their orientation. Or have equal medical benefits. Or donate blood. Or file taxes jointly. Or be openly gay without fear of some crazy religious fundie screaming "YOU GOIN'TA HELL" at best or being beaten at worst.

    And by "they", you mean the two gays you saw in the park, right? As long as those two don't know how to do it in private, all gays must not have equal rights!

    You make no sense. You're constantly telling me the WBC does not represent all Christians, yet somehow feel it's entirely reasonable to judge all gays on the actions of two people you (probably didn't) see in the park who were making out (read: probably just pecking each other on the cheek). Do you not see the absolute hypocrisy in this, or do you just not care?

    I'm not letting you forget that you said you don't generalize, because at this point you've generalized more than anyone else in this thread. This just adds on to the large list of generalizations you insist you haven't made.

    Maybe the reason it seems like more heterosexuals grasp this concept is because you're used to heterosexual relationships, so when they do it you generally don't pay attention, and when you see a homosexual couple does the same thing you notice it more because you're not used to it.

    Or maybe you're just a stereotyping hypocrite.

    And you know they do because...?

    Sweet. Many Christians I know are arrogant, self-righteous bigots. What does this mean? Go ahead, tell me, then apply the answer to what you just said.

    "How you're being treated"? How are you being treated? Compare it to them.

    I honestly can't believe you have the ****ing unmitigated gall to suggest you're the persecuted one here.

    Doesn't your book have a commandment against lying?

    Your point is null for reasons that have already been addressed. You are not debating. You're rehashing the same old arguments and screaming insults at people who have the nerve to dispute your arguments.

    I could easily say the same about you.

    Nobody ever said pedophilia was a choice. Quit putting words in our mouths.

    Maybe they could try, but hey, they still have to deal with the fact that they're screwing kids who can't fully grasp the concept and consequences of driving, let alone sex. Also, studies (and common sense) show that kids can be affected negatively mentally by sex at a young age.

    Who cares if they can't help it? Someone's still getting hurt in a pedophilic relationship. And - surprise! - that's not the case with gay relationships. Imagine that.

    Also, please point out how our science is faulty.

    Of course, there's still that whole matter of common sense and psychological studies that show that lowering the age of consent to 10 or whatever the hell you think they're trying to lower it to would be a really bad idea for the child's mental health. Just because some obscure person or group is trying to lower the age of consent doesn't mean that it's actually right, and before you try to say the same thing about gay rights, it doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong either. All it means is that someone's trying to change the way things are.

    And even assuming they did pass the lowering of the age of consent, that means little. A child can say yes to anything, but that doesn't mean they know what they're saying yes to, and it doesn't mean they know the consequences of saying yes.

    You're right. However, that really doesn't mean much, because the pedophile advocates don't really have any real backing or grounds for what they want. What exactly is your logic here? That the age of consent isn't important because someone's trying to change it? Well, guess what, that really doesn't mean anything, because there's still far more reasons to not lower the age of consent than there are to lower it.

    I'd also like to ask why I can't apply this same logic to straight marriage. Why is it that, in your mind, if we allow straight marriage, we do not therefore have to allow pedophilia, but we do if we allow gay marriage? What is so different between the two that means pedophilia would be viable if gay marriage was accepted, but not if only straight marriage was accepted? In short, why does the slippery slope only go in the direction that supports your view?

    No, they're not, and you ****ing know it. Cut this slippery slope ******** right the hell out, because it's starting to genuinely piss me off that you seriously can't see the difference between two consenting adults with the same privates wanting to be together, and a full-grown adult ****ing an eight-year-old who doesn't understand the concept and can't give informed consent on what they're getting into. At least when Zeno, ShinySandshrew, and TFP tried this argument, they were smart enough to drop it when we showed that it was completely goddamn wrong. While I salute you for the accomplishment of being more stubborn than Zeno and sgt., if all you can do is try desperately to rehash the same old argument (and fail every single damned time), you have lost the debate. Homosexuality does not equate to pedophilia. Homosexuality does not equate to bestiality. Homosexuality does not equate to necrophilia. You have been given the reasons why, and every single ****ing time someone brings them up you shuffle them under the rug and pretend no one ever said a thing. Debates do not work like that, John, and neither does reality.

    So cut this **** out. At this point, the only reason you have to compare homosexuality to pedophilia is willful ignorance.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2010
  11. Serix

    Serix New Member

    I am very pleased to see that their are so many people on here that support gay marriage! I happen to have two mothers and i could not have a happier life. For the people on this forum that are denouncing gay marriage i pity because i view this issue as denying a human a human right and treating someone as less than human. Also with people saying that gays do to much in public i.e. making out and touching each other happens in both sexualities and from personal experience (and this is just my own opinion from what i have seen) this occurs more with heterosexual couples due to the fact they have nothing to worry about in terms of people discriminating against them.
     
  12. Alli

    Alli Well-Known Member

    You know what? You are calling other people sick without reason. You are attacking people you never met without regret. You are harassing other human beings who have emotions who never did anything to you. What you are doing right now is what should be illegal. I am lucky, because in my country one could be fined for saying some of the things you do. Stating ones opinion and arguing in a debate is all well and okay, but when you start harassing people you are not using your right of free speech. You are abusing it. People like you are what is wrong with this world. Not those like me. I never harmed anyone. I have only had sex with boys who have chosen so themselves. I have never done you anything. Yet you, who do not even know me, dare to sit behind your screen and attack me, and everyone else in this world who is different? That is hateful. And hate feeds on hate. And the only reason why many gay advocates hate homophobes is because the homophobes usually starts the chain of hate.

    Saturday I was walking down a street, when a man, whom I have never met, come up to me and said: "You F a g o t s make me sick!"

    Is that acceptable? Do you really think that is acceptable? You are a horrible Christian if you think so. Christianity is about love for others and for Jesus Christ and the belief that he died for our sins. Jesus did not condemn prostitutes, yet many Christians have prosecuted prostitutes. Jesus did not condemn homosexuals, yet many Christians prosecute gays. Those Christians are not even close to grasp what their religion is truly about.

    EDIT: I did not realize that the forum would censor the synonym I used for prostitute, so I changed it.
     
  13. J.T.

    J.T. ಠ_ಠ

    And see, common sense should dictate that this is the case. People seem to think for some reason that gay people would be more likely to act openly gay and be overly sexual with their partner in public than heterosexuals, despite the fact that gays run the risk of getting preached to at best and beaten at worst, while heterosexuals don't have anything to worry about beyond some people maybe deciding to look away (which is apparently impossible when it comes to gay couples - if you're having trouble looking away from a gay couple making out on the bench across from you, I may have some bad news for you).

    But yeah, to anyone worried about the effect gay parents may have on their kids, ask this guy. Or SunnyC. Whichever works.
     
  14. Serix

    Serix New Member

    Yeah as J.T. said if anyone has questions about the effects gay parents have on their kids just ask I will be glad to answer if it helps your views on this topic.
     
  15. iColorfulEevee

    iColorfulEevee Lalalala~✰


    Says who?




    Hmm... I don't know, maybe its because they don't care if straight couples kiss or make out!



    Yeah you are discriminating. If its okay for straight couples to kiss and make out, then why isn't it okay for gays to do the same? Just tell me that at the least.



    You go girl! *huggiez* :3
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2010
  16. Ethan

    Ethan Banned

    Keep arguing against homosexuality until your heart gives out, I don't mind really. This bit is crossing the line from intelligent debate into jackassery. If you ever say I'm on the same level as a pedophile again I'll slap a permaban on you so fast it'll make your head spin.

    <3 Ethan. ^_^;;
     
  17. John13wb

    John13wb Earthbound Hero

    Wasn't aware that all the men and women that get raped by gay men and women in prison were consenting. Must have slipped my mind.

    And don't call me darling if I'm offending you. I don't give a hoot if I am because almost everyone I know thinks that gay marriage is a joke, so it's hard to tell if that really is offensive.

    BTW, you being gay really offends me. Maybe you should rethink your decision.

    Oh yeah, Ethan, if you ban me, it just proves that you've given up the debate and I win. Maybe you're just insecure.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2010
  18. Carlisle

    Carlisle BAM

    Apparently the "people" who you know aren't very smart. I wonder where your parents went wrong with you? You must not have done very well in HS. Wait... aren't you from the South? That might explain a lot. ~_^

    Of course, I'm only partially serious. Point is, you shouldn't use such offensive means to get your point across. You've never given a sound reason against homosexuality, and any points you have given have been disproven, yet you still continue to pester.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2010
  19. Ethan

    Ethan Banned

    Oh I'm very insecure John. In fact, irl, I weigh 500 lbs and I'm registered on twenty different online dating sites.

    You can still argue your point that homosexuality is immoral, all I'm doing is drawing a line. Cross it, get banned. Your choice. As far as debating with John goes, keep the debate civil still, please.
     
  20. CSolarstorm

    CSolarstorm New spicy version

    Wow, Ethan, I have reached a new level of respect for you.

    Yes, ask me and Serix about the effects gay parents have on their children. Especially the claim that they might somehow pass on their gayness...

    I just got news that my friend of family/ex-girlfriend has been suffering in the hospital and my infinite sadness makes me pretty positive I'm heterosexual...</3 *huddles in a corner*
     
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