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Satoshi Haters - Explain Yourselves

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So what is it that people hate about him? Is it his team? 'Cause he has a good reason for starting fresh in each region - he likes to challenge himself and build his skills by starting from the ground up every time, and he knows that his other Pokémon will be well cared for at Orchid-hakase's lab.
Funnily enough, initially I reacted negatively the first time he did it, and years later, I ended up doing the same thing on my Emerald game, rotating off Pokemon that beat the Elite Four so I can train a new set. I can at least say my justification: it gives me more options to use in "important" battles. As for the rest of his traits: stupidity, arrogance, etc., he's not the only shonen protagonist that exemplifies these. It's pretty much par for the genre.

I kind of wonder why rarely any Ash haters bring up his Marty Stu-ish qualities, because that's my biggest beef with the kid. He ends up being the Chosen one of seemingly every prophecy, he becomes a practical Last Jedi, he died once more than Jesus (not my quote; that's attributed to Blackjack Gabbiani) and this Marty Stu-ness even intruded on May's storyline in the 9th movie, where he had to seal May away in an "Absolutely Safe Capsule" so he could save the day. Then again, a lot of children's TV shows and video games do that kind of thing.
 

PokemonHero

I can see the future
LOL, I love when people say that. Some random 13 year old says, "I could beat Ash with my Level 100 Zapdos and Mewtwo...lololol!"

Ah, funny stuff. I've been in this fandom too long.
You're not the only one, dude. I can remember that people saying that all the way back in the Kanto days.

Personally, I do not hate Ash. I am among those in fandom who have been watching the show since the original Kanto days, so you would expect me to have had my fill of the kid by now. But I haven't.

I have found that the writers have done a much better job with his character overall since the Hoenn region. And while it would be nice to see some of his old Pokemon, I think that in the grand spectrum, his newer Pokemon are a lot more intreging than some of his old ones.
 

S.Suikun

Thank you, SPPf! :)
I notice a pattern with the anti-Satoshi movement, and that's that the majority of their complaints have not actually transpired for a whole decade now and are simply not true if you have paid an inch of attention to the series since then. Examples:
- "Ash ALWAYS releases his Pokemon!"
- "Ash NEVER comes back for Charizard!"
- "Ash NEVER uses his old Pogies!"
- "Aim for the horn! LOL!"
- "Ash cheats for badges and wins them through kindness!"
- "Ash broke his promise to Pidgeot!"
- "Ash duzzunt catch those legendaries to make his team stronger! DURR!"

Seriously, only a small fraction of the overall character complaints actually stem from recent years. And really, the only one of those I can think of is "Thunder Armor", which was rather a tacky writing move, not Ash being "dumb", per se.
 

Rex Kamex

Well-Known Member
My view on Ash is pretty much the same as Korobooshi Kojiro's. But actually, I don't see how you can have any very strong opinions on the main Pokemon cast members, either really liking or really hating them, but that's just me.

- "Ash NEVER comes back for Charizard!"
- "Ash duzzunt catch those legendaries to make his team stronger! DURR!"
You gotta catch something cool to defeat those virtual level 100 Zapdos and Mewtwo. -__-

I dunno why I said that.
 

PokemonHero

I can see the future
I kind of wonder why rarely any Ash haters bring up his Marty Stu-ish qualities, because that's my biggest beef with the kid. He ends up being the Chosen one of seemingly every prophecy, he becomes a practical Last Jedi, he died once more than Jesus (not my quote; that's attributed to Blackjack Gabbiani) and this Marty Stu-ness even intruded on May's storyline in the 9th movie, where he had to seal May away in an "Absolutely Safe Capsule" so he could save the day. Then again, a lot of children's TV shows and video games do that kind of thing.
There's an interesting theory that Lil Brother of BMGf brought up during an episode discussion for the recent Pokemon Ranger special (those who dislike aura should look away).

Lil Brother said:
The funny thing about Aura is that, with some tweaking, it can be used to fill in some loose ends.

It could explain why Ash seemed to "connect" with Corphish during his second battle with Anabel. That seemed pretty similar to the way he could sense and communicate with Riolu in these episodes. Maybe Anabel's communicate-with-nature abilities were because she had sensitivity to Aura? It would work pretty well considering literally everything is said to have an Aura, and Anabel could sense the feelings of things like plants and stuff like that.

As for the source of being in-tune with Aura, it seems to me like it was just something you’re born with. Perhaps it even has to due to the nature of a person, like an exceptionally kind-hearted and courageous person is destined to possess this sensitivity. Ash being chosen by destiny somehow would go along well with Ho-Oh presenting itself to him and him being the one to stop the destruction of the world. Maybe in a way it’s possible that Ash’s Aura powers are partially the source of all these amazing, off-the-wall things happening to him all the time. He’s “meant” to be there to save the day and witness extraordinary events.

Maybe it could even be the reason he seems able to understand Pikachu better than he should be able to at times. Just randomly speculating. Also just noticed that Aura and the Force are astonishingly similar. :eek:
While I doubt that the writers would do something like that, it would definitely explain some things that happen to Ash.
 
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To be honest I can see why people find Ash boring, when you stop to think of it he really is kept interesting mostly by his Pokemon and his interactions with other characters.

I basically switch off from liking that old newbie Kanto Ash for his humor and the more mature Ash that came with Hoenn onward.

Ash did lose the aspects that made him funny once he matured. Some of the ways he used to make a fool out of himself back in Kanto were indeed quite amusing.
 
I definitely do NOT hate Satoshi at all. I just lost interest him, he's become dull and old, sadly. But that's gonna happen, since he's been on the show since the beginning, and the shows been going on long now.

You don't always have to LOVE the main characters. Sometimes people like minor characters more because they are less shown, which makes them less boring and always the same.

I don't hate Satoshi though. I did prefer Kanto Satoshi though ..since he was new and more stupid then now. :) He's matured ..but he's not bad, just old.
 

the1stpkmnfan

Your Big Buff Bro
Plus, his styles are way different from the video games. His Pokemon don't evolve really quick, depending on what Pokemon they are.
 

PokemonHero

I can see the future
While I do agree that it was fun to watch the old Ash fail at everything, it would only be so long before people started complaining about that. With the introduction of May and Dawn, the writers had to have Ash grow up some and act as a mentor. It almost seems like Ash has grown up with me (okay, don't take it that way).

Really, though the one thing I truly miss from the original series was the silly antics of Pikachu. The ketchup bottle, the treadmill, getting hurt trying to save Togepi...
 

PK

SO BEAUTIFUL!!
True I respect Ash for risking his life for his friends and pokemon. Its just that...to be honest I don't really like him very much >_<

The reason I dislike him isn't really cause he so called 'cheats' to get his badges (Besides it was stated that gymleaders can hand'em to people who earned them.) Or because he does out of game things that making him seem unstoppable (the Special manga sometimes does it too.) Its just a few things.

*Did he ever come to visit his old pokemon (I know its a kids show, but still even kids question this sort of thing). He even promises them that he would returned.

*You think a few more years of maturity would help him win battles easier. I'm not complaining that he doesn't use his old pokemon to breeze through the challenges but even with pokemon slightly weaker than his previous, he should still be able to use the knowledge he has from his previous battles

*You think Ash would realize to stop making friends that are more intellegent and bettter than he is xD (Richie being an example).

Another reason why I'm not a big fan of Ash is cause...well he jumps to...lets face it insane conclusions. Jun says he only uses Pauls training style, but as we've see Jun doesn't release his pokemon selfishly and he cares for them. Apparently Ash thinks that if you have Paul's training style then your pretty much paul xD.

Anyways that pretty much finishes my little rant about Ash. Again this is just my point of view.
 

Heracross

Custom User Title
To be honest I can see why people find Ash boring, when you stop to think of it he really is kept interesting mostly by his Pokemon and his interactions with other characters.

I basically switch off from liking that old newbie Kanto Ash for his humor and the more mature Ash that came with Hoenn onward.

Ash did lose the aspects that made him funny once he matured. Some of the ways he used to make a fool out of himself back in Kanto were indeed quite amusing.
Satoshi still has the potential to be hilarious, just not in that know-nothing newbie kinda way (Although sometimes it really does seem he hasn't learned a thing over the years...). I think that's not only Satoshi maturing, but also because the writing of the show has changed as much as he has over the years. They used to do a lot more crazy visual gags and such just for laughs and it's rarely seen to the extreme that it once was.
 

Juputoru

M-m-m-m-onobear?!
After such a long run on the show, it'd be hard to say that TR and Ash(not to mention the-squinty-eyes-who-must-not-be-named) haven't gotten stale at all. TR's fared somewhat better since they're comic relief and never got quite as much focus as Ash, but Ash...he HAS matured as a character, but he lost a lot of the fire and random humorous moments because of his idiocy/stubborness he had in Kanto. It doesn't help that he doesn't really interact with the other members of his group as much as he did Way Back When, because let's be honest:NOBODY gets much of a personality when they're not interacting with other characters often.

And of course, I somehow suspect that many of the Ash haters are still stuck on the aspects of him they loathe that really haven't been around much in ten years(like his idiocy, the fact that he RELEASES *ALL* OF HIS POKEMON, etc.). Not that SPPf has ever been stuck in the past when it chooses things to complain about or anything.


Overall...I really don't mind Ash, and he does have his moments, but you'd think the effing MAIN CHARACTER would have "their moments" during MOST OF THE SHOW. Luckily as Ash has gotten less interesting his Pokemon have gotten more interesting, so it balances out, and Ash's character got several godsends in the form of ACTUAL RIVALS who he ACTUALLY COMPETES AGAINST, something he's *never* had. Oh sure, Gary was technically a rival, but he was really more of a vague idea that Ash wanted to be better than instead of an actual rival, especially compared to Paul. As I said before, characters get a lot more personality when they have a wider variety people to interact with, and rival interactions are a great way to make someone, you know, *interesting*.
 

the1stpkmnfan

Your Big Buff Bro
Ash was more of a Kid from Seasons 1-5, obviously.

Then From Seasons 6-9, he got more mature, and had gotten stronger battling.

Seasons 10+ he's more enhanced in the series to both maturing and battling.
 

Starlight Aurate

Just a fallen star
Sorry, i tried to translate this, but had a little trouble...So could you confirm what you were saying for me?

What i got was: You hate Ash because he risks his life for Pokemon (which are like animals)...So you hate people who risk their lives for an animals?
Humans were granted a soul, putting them on higher standards than animals/Pokemon. When someone throws their life away for something without a soul and is not worth as much as you, I find it rather stupid. But, who knows, perhaps Pokemon have been granted souls and his risking a life for a Pokemon is actually worth it. Prove me wrong about Ash, and I might end up changing my mind about him.
 

octoboy

I Crush Everything
I don't hate him, and try to defend him when people insult his intelligence for no reason. There are a few things which bug me about him, but I don't despise him.

So what is it that people hate about him? Is it his team? 'Cause he has a good reason for starting fresh in each region - he likes to challenge himself and build his skills by starting from the ground up every time, and he knows that his other Pokémon will be well cared for at Orchid-hakase's lab.
The fact that pikachu is obviously his favoured member of it, yes. I was pretty mad at him for leaving bayleef behind after she tried so hard to gain equal treatment next to pikachu, and nearly killed Oak when she was left behind during the whirl battle. As much as I hate Paul, I have to say he at least gives his pokemon a second chance, instead of just vowing to never use them again while still keeping them in his posession, leaving them to an eternity of doing nothing. Sure, they won't die at Oak's, but it's not like living the rest of your life on some ranch with nothing to do is the best life.

Mind you, I don't think he's an idiot for starting over with weaker pokemon. There's no problem with a challenge, and I don't think there's any problem with him using weaker pokemon instead of the original stronger ones, but I just feel for all the pokemon who were left behind while pikachu wasn't. And that just proved that chikorita was right about pikachu - he is put above her.

Is it his occasional lapses in intelligence? Well, that's one of his endearing qualities, in my opinion. He wants to learn everything about Pokémon training, which implies that he doesn't know it all yet, so naturally he's going to screw up every once in a while.
I have no problem with that. I just feel sorry for him when he does, because I know people will hate him for it. I don't mind the occasional silly moment, because it's better than having a totally sober main character.

Is it because he keeps defeating the Rocket-dan? Geez, they're the villains, and they try to succeed through illegal and unjust means - and they're constantly trying to kidnap Satoshi's best friend. Why shouldn't Satoshi put them in their place?
This is my main problem with him. It's not that he tries to stop them as much as he seems to have this unjust hatred of them. Take a rhyhorn he met in Orange Islands once. That thing would've killed him if it weren't for togepi, but he still saved him from falling to its doom. Now, look at what he does if Team Rocket tries to get his pokemon. He oblitherates them. This is a group of broke, starving people, one of whom is an orphan, and the other of whom was driven into a life of poverty from a marital arrangement, and a pokemon who's never had a family, and has worked his butt off only to be rejected, and left as a completely useless fighter. Now why is it that a happily wild pokemon gets his sympathy, when a bunch of broke people don't?

Look at the smoochum episode. First, they try to take a wild pokemon. It's wild, nobody's property. Now, Ash has taken some pokemon out of the wild before, without using a monster ball. That's what they did. So, he attacks them. Doesn't say to use a ball (which he only does sometimes) or anything, he just attacks them. Granted, this was a pokemon's child, but after they give up on taking the pokemon, what does he do? Attacks them some more. Nope, doesn't apprehend them, or call the police, he just releases the hounds on them when they aren't even a threat. It seems pretty obvious to me that he has an especially passionate hatred towards them, and shows it a lot.

Though that's just when he attacks them at times he didn't have to, but any other time, defeating them probably just niggles at people who happen to like the Rockets (why not? They're some of the funniest characters), and hates to see them humiliated like they are. Or maybe we just want to see another pokemon besides pikachu to deliver the finishing blow. In any case, the results of the rocket battles bother some people.

Mind you, I certainly don't hate him. I sometimes question his ways, particularly when it comes to his dealing with Team Rocket, or his favouring of pikachu (which is less obviated than it was earlier). Besides that, I don't find too much to hate about him, and I'll take him over Paul any day.
 

Dattebayo

Banned
People tend to hate Ash because he's been the main protagonist of the anime for more than 10 years, and they're beginning to grow tired of him. So they him to get replaced by a new protagonist who represents the current generation of Pokemon.
 

Shadow Quilava

Well-Known Member
To add on, a lot of Ash hate comes from people wo want to see PokeSpecial become an animé. Even though we all know it's not going to happen. Of course I don't hate him, I accept the fact that he's there and enjoy what I have to watch.
 

Kenpachi

Flawless Technique
This is my main problem with him. It's not that he tries to stop them as much as he seems to have this unjust hatred of them.
Hate to sound like a broken record but his never ending suspicion and brutality with them really bugs me too. Like in the episode Jessie got Yanmega, I won't deny the way she caught it was dirty but she caught it. When they got in their submarine and ran away, Ash had the water Pokemon look for them. They didn't find them but if they did, would he really have beaten them up and forced them to give it up? I wouldn't put it past him. His always jumping the gun when it comes to Team Rocket and his not really being interesting unless interacting with someone else are the only things that really bother me about him.
 

Shinneth

Fail-Leader!
I don't hate Ash at all. I can see where people are tired of seeing him in the anime after 500+ episodes, but at this point I think it's kind of a waste to keep hoping the anime will ditch him for a new protagonist.

Thing is, I don't really like it when people consider him a Gary-Stu. If he really was one, he would've won every single League tournament and every single Gym battle (in the manner that he won against Crasher Wake) on the first go and EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER ON THE SHOW would love and admire him and totally let him get away with every flaw he has to his character and every mistake he makes, considering if he made any. And as we know, Ash, despite his maturity and experience, has yet to win a League tournament. While this is grating in one way that he never wins, in another way major losses like this are what causes characters to develop and strive to become better than they are currently. Winning doesn't inspire much development at all; most characters in anime who win every tournament they enter never change much at all and the suspense aspect of said shows are completely non-existent. Some characters even get MORE annoying over time if they continue to win major competitions without incident. And even then, there are plenty of people who point out Ash's flaws right in front of his face, and some people still think he's outright moronic (namely Paul) for doing what he does.

As for the Aura thing, I think that adds an aspect to his character that at least keeps me interested in still watching the show with him, wondering if they will build up on that in the future. Plus, even with his maturity, he'll still occasionally do really stupid crap (like getting himself possessed by the King of Pokelantis when he could've avoided that simply by just listening to Brandon) and show that he hasn't totally changed his identity despite the development.

Ash's character may not be everyone's cup of tea, and I respect that as long as they respect that I still like the character after all these years. But the whole Gary Stu thing? That one will annoy me a little unless they have really good reasons to back up that claim.
 
Kenpachi, I just wanted to throw this out there for no reason: Watching Wobbuffet dance to Pockettaari Monsutaari in your sig is quite addicting.

Anyways, my main problem with Satoshi is, well...it's been 10 years, right? A little over that, maybe...at the beginning of every region, it seems that his skills and mentality just completely disappear. At the beginning of the regions, he makes beginner mistakes, and Pikachu seems to be reset to level 1 somehow. It's his mother's cooking, I'm tellin' ya. I just can't seem to figure out why the writers seem to love doing that. Is it to try and make the new Region Girl seem better or feel better about her skills? I dunno, but that's just my problem with him. :/
 
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