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Sawyer vs Tyson Round 3!

Discussion in 'Animé Polls' started by Genaller, Jul 18, 2018.

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Choose every claim that you think is true regarding a Sawyer vs Tyson full battle

  1. Sawyer wins when using Mega Evolution

    66.7%
  2. Sawyer wins even without Mega Evolution

    46.7%
  3. Mega Sceptile would sweep Tyson 6-0

    33.3%
  4. Tyson beats Sawyer when he isn’t using Mega Evolution

    26.7%
  5. Tyson beats Sawyer even when he is using Mega Evolution

    13.3%
  6. Tyson’s Non-Ace team would beat Sawyer’s non-Ace team

    33.3%
  7. Sawyer’s Non-Ace team would beat Tyson’s non-Ace team

    26.7%
  8. Sawyer with Mega Evolution would draw with Tyson

    6.7%
  9. Sawyer without Mega Evolution would draw with Tyson

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. Sawyer’s Non-Ace team would trade even with Tyson’s Non-Ace team

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Genaller

    Genaller May 16th 2016 - October 12th 2019

    Most of you know how this goes:

    — Sawyer
    Slaking, Clawitzer, Aegeslash, Salamence, Slurpuff, (Mega) Sceptile (Ace)

    VS

    — Tyson
    Sceptile, Shiftry, Hariyama, Donphan, Metagross, Meowth (Ace)

    To make it more interesting this time I added a good variety of options. I can’t wait to see if opinions regarding this match have changed since last year :).
     
  2. 345ash-greninja

    345ash-greninja Royal Guard Knight

    Tyson vs Sawyer (when we don't take into account Mega Evolution):

    Shiftry vs Slurpuff: Slurpuff (after a pretty close fight)
    Donphan vs Slurpuff: Donphan (pretty easy revenge kill)
    Donphan vs Salamence: Draw (Salamence's aerial advantage gives it a big edge but on the other hand Donphan has super effective Rollout, so it's safe to say it's a draw)
    Hariyama vs Slaking: Slaking (similar to Hawlucha vs Slaking, where Slaking tanks a lot of damage and then unleashes OHKO Counter)
    Tyson's Sceptile vs Slaking: Sceptile (gets a pretty comfortable revenge kill like Talonflame)
    Tyson's Sceptile vs Clawitzer: Draw (similar to Glalie vs Sceptile with a massive Solar Beam-Ice Beam clash)
    Metagross vs Aegislash: Metagross (after a very close fight)
    Metagross vs Sawyer's Sceptile: Sawyer's Sceptile (easy revenge kill)
    Meowth vs Sawyer's Sceptile: Sawyer's Sceptile (with lower-mid difficulty)

    With Mega Evolution this is a complete overkill, if Sawyer starts with Mega Sceptile then it's a clean 6-0 sweep for him with low to negligible difficulty.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
  3. Genaller

    Genaller May 16th 2016 - October 12th 2019

    Honestly it’s more like:

    Slurpuff vs Shiftry -> Slurpuff
    Slurpuff vs Donphan -> Donphan
    Salamance vs Donphan -> Salamance
    Salamance vs Hariyama -> Hariyama
    Slaking vs Hariyama -> Slaking
    Slaking vs Sceptile -> Sceptile
    Clawitzer vs Sceptile -> Clawitzer
    Clawitzer vs Metagross -> Metagross
    Aegeslash vs Metagross -> Aegeslash
    Aegeslash vs Meowth -> Meowth
    Sceptile vs Meowth -> Sceptile

    And of course Mega Sceptile would sweep 6-0. The current ratings for Sawyer and Tyson’s Pokémon are:

    Z-: Mega Sceptile
    S-: S-Sceptile
    A: Meowth
    A-: Metagross, Slaking*
    B+: Aegeslash, Clawitzer, Sceptile (borderline)
    B-: Hariyama
    C+: Donphan
    C: Salamance
    C-: Slurpuff
    D-: Shiftry

    * Slaking is only that high when battling Pokémon that are primarily close range attackers.
     
  4. 345ash-greninja

    345ash-greninja Royal Guard Knight

    I would rather have Meowth at A- rather than A. Curious that in what way do you see Salamence beating Donphan and Clawitzer beating Sceptile in those scenarios?
     
  5. Genaller

    Genaller May 16th 2016 - October 12th 2019

    Meowth should be on par with Tyson Peakachu that should be at an A at that point in his progression especially given how he fared against Agatha’s Gengar the next day. Salamence can’t beat Donphan 1 vs 1 though I do think Slurpuff can damage Donphan enough to the point where Salamance can get the win. Tyson will probably stay long range with Sceptile decreasing Slaking’s viability though Slaking will have considerably less damage after facing Hariyama than after it faced Hawlucha, so at the very least Sceptile will be pretty drained (if not also damaged) by the time it KOs Slaking giving Clawitzer the advantage in their matchup.
     
  6. 345ash-greninja

    345ash-greninja Royal Guard Knight

    Gengar could also very well be Agatha's non-ace, so we can't be that sure about that. Plus who's to say that Pikachu didn't battle at a comparatively higher level against Agatha. TBH putting Meowth at A- is already giving it more than enough respect considering how it struggled against a random Persian in the preliminaries.

    Well it's a scenario where Slurpuff faces Donphan after it has beaten Shiftry so given the stamina drain it suffered earlier it'd be quite easily revenge killed by Donphan. It think in a 1 vs 1 scenario it's more like a draw between Salamence and Donphan, Salamence aerial advantage would make it difficult for Donphan to reach it, while Salamence can attack long range with Incinerate, but on the other hand if Donphan manages to strike with super effective Rollout it could be a lot of damage.

    Well Hariyama is likely more towards the B+ spectrum given how Corphish (who was pretty good in the Hoenn Gym battles + in the Hoenn League) looked pretty much fodder relative to it, so I think that it'd be a rather similar case to Hawlucha where Slaking tanks a lot of damage from SE physical moves via its tankiness and Slack Off before unleashing OHKO Counter which knocks the daylights out of Hariyama.

    Well considering Talonflame, a physical attacker, managed to get a comfortable revenge kill, I think that Sceptile, a special attacker, won't have much problems in revenge killing Slaking comfortably.

    Sceptile vs Clawitzer is a matchup which I pretty much see ending up in a draw, with both Pokemon more or less being on equal strength, with Sceptile having the type advantage but Clawitzer having SE Ice Beam to neutralize it. It could likely end in a draw with a huge Solar Beam-Ice Beam clash like Sceptile vs Glalie.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
  7. Genaller

    Genaller May 16th 2016 - October 12th 2019

    Gengar was in all likelihood her Ace (it is in-game). Also based on my progression that’s where Peakachu should be: Surge2 (B-) -> Drake OI (B) -> Clair (B+) -> Juan (A-) -> Tyson (A) -> Lucy (A+) -> Anabel2 (S-) -> Brandon3 (S) -> Tobias (S+) -> Alain (Z-). There’s no reason that said Persian couldn’t be that strong.

    Strongly disagree here. For starters Slurpuff is a letter grade above Shiftry and also has a big type advantage with all of its offensive moves being super-effective on Shiftry so its winning with at most mid diff and not all that much stamina drain. It’s more than capable of damaging Donphan by a decent about before fainting.

    Regardless Salamance wins if Donphan takes damage from Slurpuff which is almost certainly happening.

    Are you high? There’s no way Hariyama is anywhere near B+ given how Swellow needed lower mid diff in beating it after it had been damaged by Corphish and yes the Focus Punch vs Crabhammer clash did damage Hariyama somewhat (it is visually shown being pushed back by the resulting explosion). Also HL Corphish is nothing that special (C- at best).

    Talonflame got a comfortable Revenge kill because Hawlucha was able to critically injure Slaking to the point where it’s wounds were too deep for Slack Off to heal. I don’t see Hariyama injuring it to that degree (rather more like a mid diff win for Slaking), so Sceptile isn’t going to have all that easy a time getting the remaining damage in.

    Yeah accept Sceptile will be considerably drained (and maybe even damaged) before facing Clawitzer, so Clawitzer wins.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
  8. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Standby for Battle!

    What evidence is there of Tyson's Meowth being his strongest pokemon?It was sent out fully healthy against a Pikachu that was in a battle with Metagross.It barely managed to defeat Pikachu as they were both heavily damaged and were ready to drop to the ground.I don't see Tyson's Metagross,Hariyama,or Sceptile struggling the same way Meowth did if they were sent out last at full health.
    PROVE ME WRONG!!:mad::mad::mad:
     
  9. 345ash-greninja

    345ash-greninja Royal Guard Knight

    But then again, the anime doesn't always follow the games in this aspect, for example, Wulfric's in game ace is more Avalugg than Abomasnow, but in the anime Abomasnow was his ace with even having a Mega Evolution. A similar case goes for Korrina too.

    Well I don't really agree with that progression chart in all parts, like in the Tyson case, and the Lucy/Anabel cases too(considering the level of there non-aces Seviper and Alakazam, which were also their favoured Pokemon, means certainly on the stronger side of Pokemon and not too much weaker than their aces).

    It was a preliminary round trainer's Persian, common now, Pikachu easily overwhelmed a Hitmonlee in the preliminaries, Morrison's Metang easily overwhelmed an Electabuzz in the preliminaries after evolving from Beldum, etc. etc. Given the portrayal of the other preliminary trainers in the Hoenn League, I don't really think the writers were really trying to imply that the Persian was that strong either.


    Shiftry is more faster than Slurpuff but I guess a mid-diff win is fair enough given the advantages it has. Donphan at first using Sandstorm and then going for Rollout could still make it a pretty easy revenge kill though.


    It could be the case though the winner of that battle is very likely getting revenge killed either way.

    Corphish fared quite well in the Hoenn Gym battles like against Flannery and Juan, and in the Hoenn League it was pretty consistent and good as well, so I will say it's fair enough to put HL Corphish at C rather than C-. Well yeah it caused a bit of damage but Hariyama didn't seem that much fazed by it so it's fair to say that it was a low-diff win. Well Seismic Toss did seem to do a number on Swellow but whatever. I was honestly going with a scaling from Corphish....but in either case I think its fair to say that Hariyama is at least at B.


    Well high-power moves like Focus Punch along with Brick Break and Arm Thrust could still do quite some damage though. Well Sceptile is a special attacker compared to Talonflame who is physical attacker, so it could likely get an easy revenge kill by bombarding Slaking with Bullet Seed and Solar Beam (and Slaking isn't that good against special attackers).


    Getting damaged is impossible comsidering the damage Slaking will take at the point, and considering it isn't that good against special attackers. Slaking is a quite slow Pokemon so landing Hammer Arm would be pretty much impossible considering Sceptile's speed + Detect. Getting drained is still possible though.
     
  10. 345ash-greninja

    345ash-greninja Royal Guard Knight

    Interestingly you think that Tyson's Meowth is that much weak and still think Tyson could beat Sawyer without Mega Evolution? If Meowth is on the level of his Metagross then maybe it's reasonable to make an arguement that maybe Tyson could beat Sawyer without Mega Evolution. But given that you think that Meowth is a Tier 3 level Pokemon, I'd like to see your reasoning behind how Tyson beats Sawyer without Mega Evolution.
     
  11. Genaller

    Genaller May 16th 2016 - October 12th 2019

    They do correspond the vast majority of the time ergo that is the default expection, hence it’s you who needs to provide evidence that Gengar wasn’t Agatha’s Ace. Also even though Korrina doesn’t use Mega Lucario in the in-game gym battle it’s still pretty clear that it’s her strongest Pokémon and she also uses Mega Lucario when you face her at the Battle Chateau.

    Good for you; then go make your own Peakachu progression chart. You’re making a false assumption; Gary considered Arcanine to be 1 of his favorites yet it’s pretty obvious that the difference between Arcanine and Blatoise is vast given how easily it lost to Snorlax.

    That’s bad reasoning; it can just be that Tyson was paired up against a considerably stronger trainer. I see zero issue with that Persian being somewhere in the B spectrum. Really? I can just as easily say that the writers wanted us to consider Meowth as Tyson’s strongest Pokémon based on how much effort they put into its backstory and hence by extension that Persian couldn’t have been a pushover either.


    Cotton Guard can let him tank some Rollouts and land counter attacks. He can also keep track of Donphan’s movements with his nose even in the Sandstorm. I don’t see this being an easy revenge kill (Donphan is taking a moderate amount of damage before winning).


    Yeah Salamance probably isn’t doing much against Hariyama after beating Donphan (at best it gets 1 hit in).

    I concede on HL Corphish being in C (I think this was the first battle where it jobbed without KOing another Pokémon). Actually it was more lower mid to mid diff against Corphish otherwise there would be several scaling issues. For starters it’s obvious that Donphan gave Swellow more difficulty than Hariyama. If Donphan gave Swellow a roughly mid diff fight then Hariyama gave Swellow a roughly lower mid diff fight (Swellow could still tank hits from Metagross, so it beat damaged Hariyama + Metagross definitively) meaning either Donphan is on par or even better than Hariyama (which would result in some major rating changes) or Hariyama was a good deal away from maximum health. I’m going with the 2nd interpretation.


    And Slaking can stall Sceptile out with Slack Off causing Sceptile to take considerable stamina drain before finishing Slaking. The point is that Hariyama isn’t damaging Slaking to the degree Hawlucha did a.k.a it won’t be as damaged or injured as it was when Talonflame meaning that Slack Off is going to be more effective in this case. I don’t see Sceptile getting this win while maintaining perfect health + stamina. Also while Sawyer doesn’t really switch I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t leave out a Pokémon that literally has no viable options left against a given opponent whatsoever (he’s supposedly not that stupid).


    Read my last sentence above this quoted para. The main point is that Sceptile is getting notable stamina drain giving Clawitzer the definitive advantage in their match. It is amusing to see that you do think that Tyson’s non-Ace team beats Sawyer’s ;).
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
  12. 345ash-greninja

    345ash-greninja Royal Guard Knight

    Even if Gengar is her ace, then it's more likely than not that Gengar recovered the damage it took from Pikachu via Dream Eater in the end so we can't be really sure about how much good Pikachu's performance overall was in reality considering all aspects.


    Arcanine was one of Gary's favourites but Gary favoured Blastoise more given how he was kissing Blostoise's Pokeball is the League battle before sending it out. In Lucy's case, it was blatantly obvious that she favoured her Seviper the most; she designed her battling arena the Battle Pike, based on Seviper, her red-rose projectile was designed on Seviper too, the writers even showcased her Seviper earlier against the Trio with her sisters also praising it in, so yeah, it was very likely that Seviper was on the stronger side of her Pokemon and one of her major powerhouses. So I don't really see how it makes sense for Milotic to be that much substantially stronger than Seviper what your progression chart says.

    If you watch the Anabel episodes it's more than clear that Alakazam was clearly one of her favoured powerhouses and go to Pokemon as well. She clearly tended to use Alakazam a lot more than her other Pokemon; the only time we got to see her Espeon was in the re-match. On portrayal it's clear that Alakazam is one of her major and favoured powerhouses, and even if Espeon is somehow strong, it doesn't make that much sense to be an astronomical difference like your progression chart is suggesting.

    I don't really think that it's more likely that the writers were trying imply that Tyson was against a way more stronger opponent; if we put in a deep thought about the portrayal of the preliminary round trainers overall, we see in 2 (a.k.a. majority) of the cases that the preliminary trainers were all that special, and suddenly in Tyson's case it was a much stronger opponent? It does sound quite wierd.

    Or it could be like that writers were trying to imply that Meowth was Tyson's signature Pokemon with all the backstory rather than being his strongest by a long margin. Like Morrison's Metang was his signature Pokemon but based on the battle against Ash his strongest was definitely Gligar. Along with Puss In Boots(who was shown beating that Persian and a Rhydon), we also saw Tyson's other Pokemon being showcased throughout the League and so on prior to the battle with Ash, like his Metagross earlier on being showcased against the skirmish with the Trio, we saw his Sceptile being shown beating an Aggron and a Rhydon too.

    Meowth still definitely is one of Tyson's major powerhouses, but I won't be too sure about it being stronger than his Metagross.



    I guess that could be the case.



    I see it more like being a easy revenge KO for Hariyama.


    Well there are some scaling inconsistencies like this in the HL battles, like in the Katie battle Swellow doesn't take any direct damage from Katie's Venomoth and Scizor, and yet gets dispatched by her Walrein quite easily, the same Walrein Grovyle goes to beat afterwards. I guess it could be explained like Donphan has a lot of attack power(Rollouts) but low defense power, a.k.a., a glass canon mostly. Swellow didn't even technically use a move on Donphan, it just picked it up and threw Donphan against a rock formation and Donphan fainted just merely of this.



    Hariyama does slightly worser than Hawlucha in that case then I guess. Not sure that the stamina drain from launching a few special attacks would be significant enough to cause a difference in the Sceptile vs Clawitzer battle though.



    Well I see Tyson's non-ace team just barely edging out Sawyer's; that doesn't make a difference either way as Sawyer's ace Sceptile (even without ME) cleans up Tyson's remaining Pokemon comfortably to give Sawyer's a comfortable win, and with ME Sawyer can easily make it a 6-0 sweep.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
  13. Genaller

    Genaller May 16th 2016 - October 12th 2019

    Seemed like a lower mid diff win to me.


    Yeah Gary has also been shown to kiss Arcanine’s Pokeball like before he sent it out against Giovanni. Nice try though.

    That’d be great except the way Lucy’s sister reacts to Seviper loosing (“So what?”) makes it blatantly clear that Seviper has fodder viability relative to Milotic which puts Milotic at A- to A perfectly in line with my progression chart :) (since Peakachu was at A+ in that match)..

    This notion that there has to be a cap between the viability range between a trainer’s favored set of Pokémon is baseless headcanon with explicit counter-examaples in the series. Not to mention that you’re being vague about what the cap is even supposed to be. Yeah I don’t see any issue with Espeon being at an A to A+.

    Can there exist large differences between league trainers? Absolutely! I scale Meowth to be Tyson’s strongest Pokémon (definitively stronger than Metagross) based on its backstory + how ominous Brock sounded before Tyson sent it out + its epic clash with Pikachu that’s very reminiscent of Charizard vs Blaziken. You’re claiming that Meowth can’t be that strong because it had trouble against a first round opponent except it’s entirely feasible that said trainer could have had a B caliber Pokémon hence you’re not logically showing that my placement of Meowth leads to a contradiction which is what your intent was.

    Brock’s foreboding right before Tyson sends Meowth out says otherwise.

    It’s definitively stronger than his Metagross.




    [/Quote]I see it more like being a easy revenge KO for Hariyama.[/Quote]
    Either a revenge kill or Salamance gets a hit in.


    IIRC Swellow had close range move clashes with Scizor which result in both Pokémon taking damage. At the end of the day Swellow had a harder time with Donphan than it did with Hariyama. This either makes Donphan at least on par with Hariyama or Hariyama was a good deal away from maximum health. I’ll go with option 2.



    It’ll be quite a bit more than “a few”. You’re underestimating how tanky Slaking is especially with a move like Slack Off (which will be more helpful than it was against Talonflame since Slaking’s wounds won’t be as deep).



    And I think Sawyer’s non-Ace team edges out Tyson’s, so I guess we disagree. Also if that’s what you think then please vote for it.
     
  14. 345ash-greninja

    345ash-greninja Royal Guard Knight

    Not if Gengar recovered most of the damage it took via Dream Eater.

    Except in the battle against Ash in the JL he only kissed Blastoise's Pokeball and not Arcanine's, which makes it clear that relatively he favoures Blastoise compared to Arcanine.


    Yeah no, that line doesn't give any blatant indication of how her Seviper is much weaker than her Milotic, it could be entirely the case that her sister still feels confident because she still has a strong Pokemon in Milotic in her arsenal. The writers were definitely making it clear that Seviper was a very special Pokemon for Lucy, one of her favoured and major powerhouses, then showed Lucy's red-rose projectile being designed on it, even her battling arena the Battle Pike was also designed on Seviper, they also showcased Seviper earlier on against Team Rocket prior to the battle. Also Lucay was very close in bond with her Seviper when she could close her eyes during the battle and knew by heart what attack the opponent was going to throw at it. Also FYI, her sister Barabara clearly makes a comment on Seviper's strength when it took out Jessie's Seviper and praises it a lot, making it clear that Seviper was definitely one of her major powerhouses.

    It's obvious seeing that episode that Seviper was a very special Pokemon for Lucy and one of her favoured and major powerhouses too, and so claiming that Milotic is astronomically stronger than Seviper hardly makes much sense; they are very likely within range.


    Neither do you have any proof of Espeon being that much strong as well, so that's totally baseless as well. Taking an overall look at the Anabel episodes it's more than clear that she favoured Alakazam a lot more. More impotantly, she tended to use Alakazam a lot more/many times than her other Pokemon, which gives an implication Alakazam, if not her strongest Pokemon, is at least one of her major powerhouses/one of her strongest Pokemon. It's more likely than not given her Alakazam's portrayal that Espeon won't be that much more stronger than Alakazam, even if we accept that it's stronger than Alakazam (which is also pretty much a stretch). The only time we got to see her Espeon was in the re-match, that's it.


    Sure, but given how the writers portrayed the other 2 preliminary trainers whom Ash and Morrison faced, I think that is's more reasonable to think that it's more unlikely than not that the writers were trying to imply that the opponent whom Tyson faced was that much more stronger comparatively.

    Firstly, backstory could easily mean that it's his signature Pokemon rather than being his strongest by a significant margin. Secondly, Brock never outright stated that it was his strongest, he could also mean by it that Meowth is one of his major powerhouses and amongst his strongest one rather than decisively being his strongest. Thirdly, if we are going by epicness of move clashes then Sceptile and Glalie should be Tyson's and Ash's strongest Pokemon in their teams respectively.

    I have a tough time believing that the Persian was that much strong given the portrayal of the other 2 preliminary trainer's Pokemon.



    Explained above. It could also mean that Meowth is one of Tyson's strongest Pokemon rather than decisively being his strongest.


    Cool and don't quite agree with it given its overall portrayal.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
  15. Genaller

    Genaller May 16th 2016 - October 12th 2019

    I already factored that in. Would’ve been more like upper mid to lower high if DE wasn’t used.

    Arcanine is still on the favored side of his Pokémon.


    We’re talking relative strength, so I don’t really care about Seviper’s praising if it wasn’t relative to Milotic. Yeah no... “so what?” stated in an apathetic voice flat-out means that Seviper makes a fodder contribution to Lucy’s overall viability. Closer bond =\= stronger pokemon; I hope I don’t have to go over the evidence for why again. Since we’re talking about comments, Brock specifically says that Milotic is “high lvl” but doesn’t make any such claim for Seviper. This entire notion that Milotic is capped due to Seviper is fallacious not to mention that you have literally no way of providing an upper bound as to what that cap should even be.


    What’s obvious is that your premises do not justify your conclusions in the slightest. Milotic would unquestionably fodderise Seviper.


    Not quite. Assuming my progression has been successfully justified barring this case Pikachu needs to be between A+ and S for that match, so I just took the aggregate and Espeon just falls a sub-letter grade lower. Peakachu’s 3 starring roles against Frontier Brains were meant to illustrate his ascention as Ash’s strongest Pokémon, so they definitely do fall in Peakachu’s progression chart. Lucy’s in particular was meant to convey Peakachu’s viability from mastering Volt Tackle. Also assuming Pikachu had a massive power spike against Brandon is a far more extraordinary claim than him having a gradual progression throughout BF which is what my progression asserts, so actually you need to justify your view considerably more than I do mine.

    Scott flat-out calls Espeon her favorite Pokemon a.k.a more favored than Alakazm. Again this entire notion that favored Pokémon have to be within a range of each other is fallacious and in this case the Gary comparison completely applies since Espeon is relatively more favored than Alakazm (else Scott would have said “one of her favorites” and not “favorite”) in addition to being Anabel’s Ace hence Espeon being that much stronger doesn’t result in any contradiction.


    You want to know the truth? They weren’t trying to imply jack didly squat about the relative strength of those first round trainers. Persian was used as an opponent entirely to serve as development for Meowth’s character; that’s it. The writers couldn’t care less if those trainers were on par or if Vivica utterly fodderises the other 2. I’ve given an argument for why Meowth is definitively Tyson’s strongest Pokémon; it having trouble against Persian doesn’t refute the argument I gave whatsoever since you have no valid method of scaling Persian independent of Meowth.

    Except Brock also saw Tyson’s other Pokémon (he’s definitely seen Metagross and Sceptile at least) before yet Meowth was the only case where Brock and then the others show explicit worry. Interesting; I found Pikachu vs Meowth to be more epic and akin to Charizard vs Blaziken at the Johto League but whatever.

    Is it feasible for there to be that much of a difference between league trainer Pokémon? Absolutely yes! Does my argument for why Meowth is Tyson’s strongest have anything to do with that Persian? No! Therefore does Persian being that strong (B spectrum) by scaling from Meowth (since again Meowth is rated independently of Persian) yield any contradiction? No! What part of this do you not understand?



    Explained above. Meowth is definitively Tyson’s strongest.


    It definitely is by the “portrayal” of the relative reactions of Ash’s companions to both Pokémon.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018

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