1. We have moved to a new forum system. All your posts and data should have transferred over. Welcome, to the new Serebii Forums. Details here
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
    Dismiss Notice
  3. If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders
    Dismiss Notice

Scary/creepy/weird stuff in Pokémon (games, anime, manga etc.)

Discussion in 'General Pokémon Discussion' started by NovaBrunswick, Aug 9, 2018.

  1. PorcelainVulpix

    PorcelainVulpix misty and dawn are best girls.

    I agree the music is definitely creepy. I mean I just found it much creepier than I do now, to the point where I didn’t even like visiting the town in the games :/

    I remember the hidden frequencies rumor! I remember looking up the Japanese version on YouTube but being too scared to listen to it because I actually believed the rumor lol.
     
  2. pokefreakceetje

    pokefreakceetje Well-Known Member

    I have found strange Pokédex entries a while back that are definitely creepy/interesting to read. Such as the one of Torchic: "Torchic sticks with its Trainer, following behind with unsteady steps. This Pokémon breathes fire of over 1,800 degrees Fahrenheit, including fireballs that leave the foe scorched black."
     
  3. NovaBrunswick

    NovaBrunswick Canada Connoisseur

    That doesn't really sound creepy, more like weird (kind of). Here's a real creepy one, it's Gengar's entry from Sun:

    It's just straight out telling you to let yourself get attacked or even killed by a Gengar. Kids' game? :eek:

    I think the rumour was debunked by Game Freak themselves a few years back, but it makes for a great (if untrue) horror story. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
  4. Zhydra

    Zhydra Master of Chaos!

    Gets a bit worse in US/UM where she isn't on the high and is still an abusive control freak that approved of Type:Null's creation/ treatment, froze all those pokemon and took advantage of others for her own selfish goals. As well as disowning her kids. Those are not excused by the neurotoxins and meant that she became horrible on her own. (Shows just how much losing someone close to you can mess you up!)
     
    NovaBrunswick likes this.
  5. Mega Altaria

    Mega Altaria Shiny hunter

    Well the only excuse for it is that she focused too much on her research, which would give her less time to spend and to think about her children. It’s pretty much either her research or her kids.
     
    NovaBrunswick likes this.
  6. Zhydra

    Zhydra Master of Chaos!

    Again, trauma messing her up and managing everything while in that. "Don't want to lose everyone else." Mindset.
    Remember, Gladion and Lillie's dialogue in USUM before the big confrontation HAS NOT CHANGED!

    Lusamine still treated her kids like ornaments, dismissed them as children that would "Be more happier if they only listen to the adults around then." Verbally tore at Lillie for taking HER Cosmog. (Lusamine was going Leroy Jenkins with it because SHE wanted to be the one who beats Necrozma by her own hand to vent out her frustration and keep the big image she sees herself as.) before going into her closet of frozen pokemon.
    In addition to calling her kids wretches to her face and dismissing her kids warnings about not opening the wormhole. (Gladion pretty much pleaded her to not do it.) While the one in USUM isn't as crazy/ scary as her vanilla counterpart, that along with her big goal of wanting to bring Mohn back being her primary motivator... the big trauma back story and humanizing traits they gave her to show what she would have been like without them. (Giving her kids praise, being hesitate to kill Cosmog and actually wanting to protect Alola instead of leaving it for a fantasy world.) makes this one scary in her own right.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
    NovaBrunswick likes this.
  7. Leonhart

    Leonhart The Lying King

    She was never a good character in my view since she seemed to care more about Pokemon than she did about humans. Even her motivations in US/UM were based more on protecting Pokemon, which made me question her sanity.
     
  8. Mega Altaria

    Mega Altaria Shiny hunter

    Except when the Ultra Recon Squad arrive and until when she starts to go through the Ultra Wormhole to capture Nihilego (SM) or Necrozma (USUM) with Guzma. But both cases show similar levels of obsession with unworldly beings but it is all diluted when Necrozma is simply too powerful and Lusamine is unable to control it. It would then create an urgent situation where the focus is shifted away from her obsession and more onto Nebby's battle with Necrozma to set up for the fusion into Dusk Mane/Dawn Wings Necrozma and ultimately for the sake of Ultra Necrozma. Nihilego would then be more easier for Lusamine to make contact with it because they appear to be more docile but eventually fuses with one, which intensifies her obsession. By research, I was looking at how she would be looking at Mohn's papers to find out ways to open Ultra Wormholes and the Cosmog (Nebby) she kept at Aether Foundation was the key. But both cases do indeed have a original motivator, which was her grief over her lost husband.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
    NovaBrunswick likes this.
  9. Zhydra

    Zhydra Master of Chaos!

    Necrozma's case was her wanting to punch it in the face by either beating it or capture it, because if the thing steals Alola's light she wouldn't be able to "love" the pokemon she is protecting. (Aka the frozen pokemon.) Her, as the one in charge of a cooperation tasked with protecting pokemon, took it on her shoulders to want to stop Necrozma, because her ego says do it and be a hero. Even it means taking advantage over the guys who gave you the information in hope of a mutual goal. (Part of the reason Lusamine wasn't blindly looking in US/UM's back story is because they most likely warned her about Nihilego and about a greater threat. Thus the jellyfish's role in the story became one telling us that Aether is messing with Ultra Space and nothing else.)

    After she goes into Ultra Space, Gladion rationalizes why she was doing it. (Aka Find Mohn since in US/UM, the dialogue from her showed that she DOES remember.) Mohn was a still a motivator while Necrozma and the threat he posed to Alola was her excuse. (I would call her obsession in US/UM one towards revenge on Ultra Space than what we saw in the vanilla games, since she said herself in the Ultra games that she despises the wormholes and everything about. That is why she let Type:Null happen, revenge.) She went in over her head and the climax of USUM happens when the prism pokemon kicked her butt for us, eats Nebby, lets loose the Ultra Beasts and tries to steal Alola's light.

    Her goal with Nihilego in S/M was literally her wanting to spend the rest of her life with the jellyfish with no regard to anyone ever and letting the beasts on Alola out of drug infused spite. Seemingly forgetting about Mohn entirely. (In fact he isn't mentioned at all until the post game from Gladion.)

    In regards to Leonhart.
    Lusamine, in both games, is crazy! More so in S/M then in US/UM, but it is still insanity.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
    NovaBrunswick likes this.
  10. Mega Altaria

    Mega Altaria Shiny hunter

    But that all happened before Lusamine released Nihilego from a Beast Ball and fused with one. She wasn't aware of Mohn's whereabouts after he disappeared. So it's possible she assumed Mohn could be somewhere in Ultra Space waiting for her and that's where all the things she love comes in. But it could be that her obsession simply overrode her reason possibly because Nihilego reminded her of the Lillie before she changed into her Z-Powered form. Notice the resemblance between Lillie's initial appearance and Nihilego.
     
    NovaBrunswick likes this.
  11. Zhydra

    Zhydra Master of Chaos!

    Except Lusamine was talking about wanting to be with Nihilego before fusing with it. (As the mother beast, she wasn't saying anything save for beastial snarls.) As well as talking about letting the beast go on a rampage before going into Ultra Space in S/M to catch Nihilego. (In fact the one in S/M was at her most extreme and how it got worse, which hints that she got drugged by Nihilego before you met her, compare and contrast her to how she is in US/UM and it makes it more evident.)

    No bit of dialogue in either games said that Lillie was made to look like Nihilego, only that her old dress was something Lusamine told her to wear. It is even more of a case in US/UM, Lusamine has different motives that have nothing to do with giving love to the Ultra Beasts (In fact Nihilego has little to do with the plot.) and Lillie is still forced to wear that dress until she decided to be in charge of her own life and switch to her Z powered form. It is a coincidence and a sign of Lusamine's over bearing influence on Lillie. But it is nothing more than that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
    NovaBrunswick likes this.
  12. Mega Altaria

    Mega Altaria Shiny hunter

    That was what I meant by Lusamine being attached to Nihilego and wanting to be with it. Even though there could be no dialogue evidence for this, the similarities between Lillie's original appearance and Nihilego's appearance could mean something and meaning can be inferred from it. In the scene Lillie is confronting her mother, Lillie is basically herself and Lusamine and Nihilego could represent Lillie's previous appearance. Their conflict could also show the conflicting values among Lillie and Lusamine with Lillie representing her own independence and Lusamine representing obedience and Lillie's dependency. And that way the similar appearances among the Lillie before and Nihilego would link together Lillie's life prior to escaping the Aether Paradise.
     
    NovaBrunswick likes this.
  13. Zhydra

    Zhydra Master of Chaos!

    You are on the ball with Lillie's change into her Z powered form, it represents that she is taking control of her own life, away from her toxic upbringing. Even in US/UM where the confrontation was off screen, Lillie told us what she was going to tell Lusamine. (About how Lusamine was deciding things by herself with no regards to others feelings and that people are to be more open and help one another.)

    The fact that the URS were calling Lusamine out on her egocentric behavior before you went to fight Necrozma in addition to the after math of what Lillie called her mother out on when we beaten Necrozma. How ever the dialogue must have went, resulted in Lusamine undergoing character development and wishing to tend to a weakened Nebby. Once the legendary was tended to, that was when Lillie and Lusamine part ways, with the later knowing that she isn't in a position to face her children or call herself a protector of anything.

    Then Team RR happened and Lillie took another extra step and became a trainer herself. (Just a Clefairy that the only reason it is high leveled is because of game play and it would have been a complete drag if it was low leveled. It still counts that Lillie is starting.) Lusamine spends the rest of the post game after that, learning where she needs to correct herself on as well as backing away from her kids lives. (Letting her children be independent.)

    The only thing I still disagree on is that in US/UM, once again, Lillie had that old dress looking exactly like it was in S/M and Nihilego having no part in the Ultra plot besides showing that Aether is messing with Ultra Wormholes.

    There is another factor as to where Lusamine's control freak abuse came from, how it still became that even without the venom or the obsession with Nihilego.

    Something US/UM proved to be the case where she doesn't want anything to do with the jellyfish.

    Mohn, was lost into an Ultra Wormhole, due to things beyond anyone's control. Lusamine didn't want to lose anymore people in her life due to things that went out of control, so to stop that, make sure the situation is under control, so you can better protect them. For an unstable mind, that translates into being an over bearing control freak, wanting those close to you to act and look how you want it because who knows what might happen to them out of your watchful eye.
    That mindset, at its most extreme, since Nihilego venom does that in addition to redirecting your mind to where that thing matters in place of what use to matter, can turn into tyrannical behavior and thus what we say in S/M.

    While what we saw in US/UM was what happened when she never got that dose but still went off the deep end due to the inability to grief, be a single parent etc. (The Aether Family falling apart and the only solution to that problem is giving up custody of the kids. Which became US/UM's final resolution, especially once you beat Gladion in the league and visit Aether Paradise.)
     
    NovaBrunswick likes this.
  14. Mega Altaria

    Mega Altaria Shiny hunter

    Although it would make sense for her to be affected by Nihilego's toxins beforehand, I wonder if she was really infected beforehand? I think that the Ultra Recon Squad would have played a difference there. They mentioned the crisis related to Necrozma that would lead to her excuse to find it and capture/defeat it.
     
    NovaBrunswick likes this.
  15. Zhydra

    Zhydra Master of Chaos!

    I am tempted to make some comparisons, since Nihilego venom dulls your consciousness and makes you act on your most extreme.

    1. During your first visit in Aether Paradise, Nihilego shows up in a wormhole. Nothing different happened in either games until after you defeat it, then Lusamine talks to herself about getting something back.
    In S/M she flashes an evil smile and talks about protecting/ loving Nihilego. Then starting being vague on what is going on down at the labs, Wicke admitted that it may have not been an accident for the wormhole opening up.
    In US/UM, that evil smile does not happen and the URS show up to explain their part in assisting Aether. In contrast, Lusamine is MORE open to what was happening down at the labs, they were doing an experiment that didn't work as intended, Wicke treats it like it was an accident.

    2. Next, when you go rescue Lillie. Lusamine in both versions verbally talked down on her, in S/M she had an enraged snarl on her face, showing hate. In US/UM, she had a disappointed/ hurt expression. In S/M, the verbal abuse continues at its worse by saying Lillie wasn't beautiful and told Lillie to stay around and watch her summon the beasts, knowing it might kill Nebby. In US/UM, she called Lillie's behavior unattractive and talks about still wanting to protect her from Necrozma. In S/M, Lusamine taunts Lillie more about forcing Nebby to use its power whether it wants to or not, with more cruel words; in US/UM Lusamine still said that using Nebby's power will kill it, but if it is for the greater good, it will have to be done. Then she leaves to her freezer closet with parting words. S/M it was more cruel taunting with a cruel smile. While in US/UM Lusamine gave Lillie credit where it is due for keeping Cosmog safe and thanking her with a more genuine smile. (To Lusamine, the words are more kind, when they come out... it is basic villain cliche, thanking the hero for doing something for them.)

    3. Now for the confrontation in the freezer room. In S/M, Lusamine rambled about how Nihilego must be suffering in Ultra Space and thinks letting it out to do what ever it wants to Alola would help it, while screaming at her kids for stealing her stuff and betraying her. Saying that they no longer matter to her, she even taunts in how many wormholes will open up if she used the whole Cosmog.
    In US/UM, she rambles how she can't love those close to her if the light is stolen, taking it upon herself to go fight Necrozma. In her childrens pleas, specifically when Gladion mentions Mohn Lusamine acknowledges the memory of what happened that day as her excuse to go after Necrozma by herself. Despite like in S/M, she called her kids wretches for leaving her, she is still determined to protect them from Necrozma. (Like I said before, Necrozma was her excuse to go into Ultra Space and look for Mohn, the threat this pokemon poses, is something she tells others and herself to mask the more selfish reasons.) With the intended goal of using Nebby to make just one wormhole that she might have control over.

    In S/M she used the box without hesitation, taunts Lillie more and use it to open the wormholes with psychotic glee. Only caring about Nihilego, ordering Guzma that she doesn't want to hear from the annoying kids again and wants to silence (Potentially a homicidal metaphor.) you the player. In US/UM she hesitates to use the box and when Nebby resists, she gave praise to Cosmog for its love of Lillie and was rather happy that her kids grew up away from her eyes. But still bound to her self appointed duty, does not want anyone to interfere and challenges you the player to silence any worries her kids might have for her, by proving how she can fare in battle. (This one, is not a homicidal metaphor.) Post battle, she gives a praise to you the player, has Guzma come along with her because she wouldn't be fighting Necrozma alone, then uses the Nebby box with no sign of joy in it.

    S/M Lusamine, was acting on her most extreme without the moral inhibitor called a consciousness, while rambling about the Ultra Beasts or specifically, Nihilego. US/UM Lusamine was much more tame while having other priorities on her mind.

    In S/M, Lusamine was high on the toxins before hand, given the symptoms. Which gotten worse when she went into Ultra Deep sea and gotten even more of the drug.

    While in US/UM, Lusamine was an egotistical loon that was doing things her way, while using the greater good as a counter weight to convince others and herself that it is. As stated, capturing/ defeating Necrozma who was a proven to be a threat when he came, was her excuse to go into Ultra Space and look for Mohn. Only to get her teeth kicked in by Necrozma and endangering the very region she vowed to protect.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
    NovaBrunswick likes this.
  16. Mega Altaria

    Mega Altaria Shiny hunter

    I know she is more self-centred and psychotic in SM instead of USUM, particularly at the tone of her dialogue in the Pokémon preservation room. It's just that it begins to get suspicious with her interactions with Nihilego, specifically referring to the suffering part in SM but reveals that they're getting information on Ultra Beasts from the Ultra Recon Squad where the Lusamine in USUM is shown to have retained more reason that the Lusamine in SM at that point. And it just gets worse as the story progresses in SM. A major difference is that Lusamine doesn't disown her own children in USUM. At least for then it's pretty much hinted that Lusamine was infected by Nihilego's toxins in SM but not in USUM.
     
    NovaBrunswick likes this.
  17. Zhydra

    Zhydra Master of Chaos!

    Agreed on most, but she still disowned her kids in USUM when she told Lillie to her face. "I have no children!"

    Do know, Nihilego venom does NOT add anything that isn't already there, it makes it worse, removes everything that would soften what ever impulsive thought runs in your brain and makes Nihilego the only think you would care about.

    Which is why in USUM, even without Nihilego venom, Lusamine was still a villain with all the traits and flaws present. Just instead of being the main villain you have to take down, she is an anti villain that's goals involve stopping the big bad Necrozma. (It lessens her as a villain, but as a three dimensional character with human traits, it was an upgrade.)

    How she is responsible for most of the things you, Lillie and the others dealt with in the story as well as the reason Lillie and Gladion have their current problems. How she was responsible for making a looming threat she tried to stop into a more active threat and suffered emotional consequences as well as on screen character development that to me, was a welcome improvement that I honestly wished S/M provided for us before wrapping the story up.

    Now that we are done talking about Lusamine. (This has been a very good argument and I wish to debate with you again on another topic in the future.)

    Lets talk about Mega evolution and how gen VII brought a new light into them lore wise. Not all of the mega evolutions have a Dex Entry, but I can imagine those like mega Charizard Y having out of control body heat, Mega Charizard X being more aggressive to where they will fight to the finish as well as all sorts of metal things.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
    NovaBrunswick likes this.
  18. NovaBrunswick

    NovaBrunswick Canada Connoisseur

    So from what you've all been saying, Lusamine is the real villain of Sun/Moon, not Team Skull. She seems a bit more subdued in US/UM, though.
     
    Zhydra and Mega Altaria like this.
  19. Mega Altaria

    Mega Altaria Shiny hunter

    True though but her role is definitely more diminished in USUM. I personally see Necrozma as more of the villain due to its violent behaviour and its consumption of Nebby and the climax of the story is pretty much a battle with an aura boosted Ultra Necrozma. Imagine facing a Legendary having a BST higher than that of Arceus while being aura boosted so that all of its stats are increased. Add the fact that it has an Ability that boosts the damage done by super effective moves. And its moveset: Dragon Pulse, Power Gem, Smart Strike and Photon Geyser. It kills anything that is super effective against Dragon. That is definitely scary.
     
    NovaBrunswick likes this.
  20. Zhydra

    Zhydra Master of Chaos!

    While there was something driving her to the villain she became in S/M. It was her own dumb fault she became infected by Nihilego venom when she was blindly searching. The game only focused on her villainy and nothing else was shown save for dialogue that is easy to miss. (Or the Mohn thing Gladion said was at the wrong place, at the wrong time.)

    The game ended with the hope that she would make up for her actions once she gets treatment from Bill, but the story ended at that point with Lillie leaving for Kanto with Lusamine. (Hinting that she can redeem herself... that I honestly wished they continued instead of ending the story the way they did. That is what fanfics are for.)

    US/UM, she never got infected by the jellyfish, thus wasn't as bad as she was in the vanilla games. (Necrozma is the main villain and is more a looming one rather than an active one until the climax.) Once Necrozma kicked her teeth in, everyone called her out on her careless, selfish actions and you the player cleaned up her mess, she... on her own, realized just how horrible she was and started making amends on screen, followed by post game dialogue, title defense and a certain scene in the post game that showed character development.

    Also, Mega Altaria, this is my summary of the two adaptations of Lusamine.

    S/M was the more effective villain, but nothing else was done with her as a character after you take her down. As well as most of the ones who hate her character, really refusing to see anything else or choosing to interpret those depths as the worse possible interpretation. The fact that US/UM and the anime took changes to her character kind of tells me Game Freak made a big mess with her character.

    US/UM, while her villainy was dialed back and lost her big bad position to Necrozma, she had more depth revealed that Game Freak intended for her as well as proper character development after the climax that gave a better sense of closure. That and even if Necrozma's climax wasn't as focused, I like the fight with him much better because you fight the unholy fusion this time, rather than just her pokemon.
    (Then there is the anime's adaptation who is too adorable and wasn't our topic. Maybe another day, since I like that one as well.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
    NovaBrunswick likes this.

Share This Page