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Scizor Slapped the Speckily Spiritomb Silly! :D [CRMT]

Keaton

Custom User Title
Overview
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This team has in essence been made to get me back into the swing of the
Competitve Enviroment, I'm using a few monsters that I pretty much never
used to (Zapdos and Donphan) so this team will probably need a bucket load
of fixes - but hey, thats what the CRMT is for ^^

This team started with Zapdos and so subsequent counters have been
worked around her primarally, hence why I expect many holes to be found :D

But, heres hoping its not too terrible.

BTW, I am used to the rating enviroment, anyone posting generic sets or
suggesting changes without reason will pretty much be ignored ^_o

EDIT: Just added a sentence to Cress' discription, worried about Swampert -
putting Ice Beam on Cress would remedy this, but that would require the drop of
Toxic, Psychic or Charge Beam O_O -- although Charge Beam could be dropped,
afterall Zapdos counters any Stone-Edge-less Gyara's pretty well....o_O;;

Also, this team is naturally for use in the Standard OU tier ^^

Thanks for any help/comments in advance ;)
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Scizor(m)@Choice Band
Adamant (+atk -satk)//Technician
32 Hp/ 252 Att/ 224 Spe
- U-Turn
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- X-Scissor

Pretty awesome lead really, I loved him before Platinum defined him, Swords Dance
is for any Lead whom will switch out (Weavile or even TTar), Bullet Punch makes for
a Fantastic Priority STAB, Superpower is simply Epic on Scizor and X-Scissor scores
KO's on the occassional Breloom lead or TTar :)

dpmfa145.png

Zapdos(-)@Leftovers
Timid (+spd -atk)//Pressure
252 HP/ 80 Def/ 176 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power {Ice}
- Heat Wave
- Roost

As mentioned in the opening para, this birdy is the core of the team. Has fearsome
coverage and little to really fear, many of her counters are handled by other members
of the Team. Thunderbolt is an awesome STAB (although I may swap for Discharge
for Paralysis), HPGrass is nice for the Bulky Waters that come in on her, Heat Wave
handles all Steels not named Heatran and Roost offers Ice Immunity and Healing
...pretty cool all in all.

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Vaporeon(f)@Leftovers
Bold (+def -atk)//Water Absorb
252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 Spe
- Surf
- Hidden Power {Electr}
- Wish
- Protect

One of my fave. Bulky Waters. Offers Wish Support for the team and can happily
handle both Dragons and Special Fire Types whom aren't sporting HP Electr.
May swap something for Toxic, but then Cressy has it ^^

dpmfa485.png

Heatran(m)@Choice Specs
Rash (+satk -spdef)//Flash Fire
32 Atk / 252 Satk / 224 Spe
- Overheat
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power {Grass}
- Explosion

Special Offensive core through and through. Unlike Zappy whom is offensive
and defensive, this fella is full on assault. Overheat is fantastic even against
the likes of Blissey, Earth Power covers Steels and also more importantly other
Flash Fire types too, HP Grass is there for Bulky Waters whereas Lava Plume is
for consistant damage and BurnHax.

dpffa488.png

Cresselia(f)@Leftovers
Calm (+sdef -atk)//Levitate
204 HP / 196 Def / 108 Sp.D
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Moonlight
- Reflect

Self-Healing Special Wall, Psychic handles the monkey and Heracross, Toxic
is nice for opposing Stallers, Moonlight heals and Charge Beam scares the pants
off of Gyarados.

Wondering now if I should swap CBeam for Thunder Wave or Light Screen for added
support...afterall, Gyara is covered elsewhere and Bulky Waters are weakened by
Vappy and fryed by Zappy ^^


dpmfa068.png

Machamp(m)@Leftovers
Adamant (+atk -spatk)//No Guard
252 HP/ 4 Spe/ 196 Atk/ 52 Def
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Dynamic Punch
- Stone Edge

**New>Donphan, helps handle Blissey better and adds ALOT more
physical power to a Specially orientated team.

Thanks again ;)

Changes and Ammendments said:
17/4/09: Made changes as per Blue Ace's suggestions, HPElectr>Toxic, Reflect>Cbeam
---------Replaced Donphan for Machamp, to handle the Blissey weak, and added some TNT to Heatran's ***** too
---------thanks Blue Ace, lol, this team should be co-owned by you too lol :D
16/4/09: More EV Fixes, Thanks to JRCxyz!
---------Fixed Zapdos' EV's- Thanks again Blue Ace!
15/4/09: Ammended EV's as per BLUE ACE's Suggestions
---------Swapped Toxic and Ice Beam on Cress and Vappy as per
---------ZAPPER2201 's suggestion.
---------Penciled in Stealth Rock for Don too.
---------Gave Scizor CB and U-Turn: thanks to RAD3N for that useful suggestion!
14/4/09: Added Heatrans EV's
 
Last edited:

ShadowKyogre443

오션 마스터
Wow, that is impressive on defensive terms. Though I must say, you could switch Donphan out for somethin' way better. Over all I can say that you have yourself a good team.
 
Last edited:

zapper22001

Join BLD
Changes/comments are in bold.

[/center]
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Scizor(m)@Life Orb
Adamant (+atk -satk)//Technician
32 HP/ 252 Atk/ 224 Spd
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- X-Scissor

Pretty awesome lead really, I loved him before Platinum defined him, Swords Dance
is for any Lead whom will switch out (Weavile or even TTar), Bullet Punch makes for
a Fantastic Priority STAB, Superpower is simply Epic on Scizor and X-Scissor scores
KO's on the occassional Breloom lead or TTar :)

I've never used Scizor as a lead, but yours seems pretty solid. You'll need to watch out for Jirachi leads as they commonly carry Fire Punch, but with some prediction, you might be able to switch in your Heatran.
IMO Scizor is generally a mid to late game sweeper(though he makes a good bait for fire moves as a lead since most ppl might think of Scizor as a rain setter). You should probally get another lead cause your Scizor can take out any Mamos, Starmies, and Weaviles that can hinder your Zapdos sweep.


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Zapdos(-)@Leftovers
Timid (+spd -atk)//Pressure
252 HP / 188 Def / 70 SAtk
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power {Grass}
- Heat Wave
- Roost

As mentioned in the opening para, this birdy is the core of the team. Has fearsome
coverage and little to really fear, many of her counters are handled by other members
of the Team. Thunderbolt is an awesome STAB (although I may swap for Discharge
for Paralysis), HPGrass is nice for the Bulky Waters that come in on her, Heat Wave
handles all Steels not named Heatran and Roost offers Ice Immunity and Healing
...pretty cool all in all.

Seems solid.

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Vaporeon(f)@Leftovers
Bold (+def -atk)//Water Absorb
252 HP/ 204 Def/ 56 Sdef
- Surf
- Toxic
- Wish
- Protect

One of my fave. Bulky Waters. Offers Wish Support for the team and can happily
handle both Dragons and Special Fire Types whom aren't sporting HP Electr.
May swap something for Toxic, but then Cressy has it ^^

I suggest you give Vappy toxic and Cresselia ice beam. IMO Vappy makes better use of toxic with protect.

dpmfa485.png

Heatran(m)@Choice Specs
Modest (+satk -atk)//Flash Fire
40 HP / 252 Satk / 216 Spd
- Overheat
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power {Grass}
- Flamethrower

Special Offensive core through and through. Unlike Zappy whom is offensive
and defensive, this fella is full on assault. Overheat is fantastic even against
the likes of Blissey, Earth Power covers Steels and also more importantly other
Flash Fire types too, HP Grass is there for Bulky Waters whereas Lava Plume is
for consistant damage and BurnHax.

Overrall seems fine though it kind of looks a SpecsMence. But if that is what you're intending then its good. Flamethrower for Lava Plume. Flamethrower is the most consistent fire move.

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Cresselia(f)@Leftovers
Calm (+sdef -atk)//Levitate
204 HP / 180 Def / 76 SAtk / 48 SDef
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Moonlight
- Charge Beam

Self-Healing Special Wall, Psychic handles the monkey and Heracross, Toxic
is nice for opposing Stallers, Moonlight heals and Charge Beam scares the pants
off of Gyarados. Although lacking Ice Beam worries me, afterall she makes for
a fantastic Swampert Counter with Ice Beam...O_O

See comment on Vappy.

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Donphan(m)@Leftovers
Impish (+def -satk)//Sturdy
252 HP/ 252 Def/ 6 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Stealth Rock

Naturally with Zapdos a Spinner is mandatory, pretty standard although last
slot is up for debate...any ideas?

Seeing that you don't have a lead with Rocks, SR is a must for Donphan.

Thanks again ;)

I hoped I helped.
 

Lucario_Guy

Diety of Technology
I love it! I agree with zapper, you should put Ice Beam on Cresselia and Toxic on Vaporeon, and SR on Donphan is the most practical option. :)

The only thing I dissagree with is Flamethrower on Heatran. Since it's a SpecsTran and not a ScarfTran, it isn't really fast enough to make use of the consistancy in a sweep without Paralysis Support. If you do opt for Flamethrower, give Cresselia Thunder Wave > Charge Beam. (Scizor and Zapdos might enjoy the support, too, eh?) :D

~Luke
 

Blue Ace

Pokemon is Dead
Nice to see you back here, Keaton.

I'll start off with some EVs for now since I don't have a lot of time.

- Scizor: 40 HP/ 244 Atk/ 224 Spd; the HP investment here means you can attack 10 times with Life Orb and have 1% left over.


- Zapdos: 252 HP/ 80 Def/ 176 Spe; this way you can outspeed Jolly Max Speed Lucario who have Ice Punch and will beat you, I suggest Hidden Power Ice over Hidden Pwoer Grass as with all that Speed you even outspeed Adamant Max Speed Salamence, besides both Vaporeon, Cresselia and Heatran can handle Swampert already.


- Vaporeon: 252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 Spe; you had the right idea dropping the useless Special Attack EVs, but even 56 Evs into Special Defense isn't doing Vaporeon any much noticeable good. This spread gives Vaporeon the best possible bulkiness and can take some Special hits slightly better too, the speed EVs are for outspeeding other Vaporeon and no Speed Scizor.


- Heatran: 32 HP/ 252 SpA/ 224 Spe; this way you outspeed the standard Celebi and Tentacruel, in addition to some of the slower versions of Zapdos.


- Cresselia: 204 Hp, 196 Def, 108 Sp.D; These EVs allow Cresselia to never be 2HKOed by anything Salamence can throw at it. It doesnt need Special Attack anymore since they were for Garchomp and Infernape, the former is gone and the latter can be also be dealt with Vaporeon.

Well that's it for now, welcome back.
 
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Keaton

Custom User Title
Thanks Zapper2201 for your help and suggestions ^_^
I don't know why I didn't think about swapping the moves between them lol :D

Blue Ace: Fantastic help as always, I'm still Ev'ing for threats like Garchomp - hard habit to break since he was such a terrifying monster :D I appreciate the EV fixes and the welcome back ^_^

My concern's left with the team currently are:

-Donphans final slot, Stealth Rock seems like the logical option, but a Phazer is appealing too not to mention Knock Off's infinite usefulness.
-Charge Beam on Cress, wonder if replacing it for Thunder Wave or Light Screen o_O
 
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Rad3n

Banned
Your team will suffer most without Stealth Rock, so that's the best option.

I question the use of SD Scizor as a lead, especially with a LO. Pretty much every lead except Weavile and Tyranitar forces you out, and neither are particularly common. A few leads you can beat if you opt for the Bullet Punch right off, but you're trying to SD. When you do SD, you are unlikely to take a chunk out of the opponent's team either, as every team has numerous steel dealies these days. It's not like anything on your team greatly benefits from scouting Scizor's counters early on. Scizor has some utility as a lead with U-turn and Bullet Punch, but that's lost on the Swords Dance set.
 

Keaton

Custom User Title
Your team will suffer most without Stealth Rock, so that's the best option.

I question the use of SD Scizor as a lead, especially with a LO. Pretty much every lead except Weavile and Tyranitar forces you out, and neither are particularly common. A few leads you can beat if you opt for the Bullet Punch right off, but you're trying to SD. When you do SD, you are unlikely to take a chunk out of the opponent's team either, as every team has numerous steel dealies these days. It's not like anything on your team greatly benefits from scouting Scizor's counters early on. Scizor has some utility as a lead with U-turn and Bullet Punch, but that's lost on the Swords Dance set.

Scizor isn't a sucidal lead.
Swords Dance is a nice oppertunity move and for late game returns - its not an off-the-bat strategy, afterall, if I run him with Swords when he returns late game it will be unlikly that my opponent would suspect Swords Dance, making him a very potent late game sweeper if given a chance to set up.

Scizor can deal decent damage against almost every non bulky lead and thats the point. Scizor deals damage and early KO's when he can, and on the occasions that a lead retreats he uses SD and starts harshly.

In most situations he will scope the foe, deal a nice block of damage before swapping to a suitable counter. Scizor can take hits and because of many different factors deal it out too.

Swords Dance is primarally for late-game.
 

noobiess

6 different pokemon
maybe explotion on heatran and moolight might give problems because it' PP is very low (max 8)..
And It might be a problem if somebody batonpasses or just gains stats because you have a bit too defensif pokemon... so maybe a focus sash to stop that or something....
 

Rad3n

Banned
~Scizor Preaching~

This is just a quick overview of the top ten leads. You might see some of these as wins for Scizor, but they're not. If a full strength team has nothing that can safely switch in and kill/force out Scizor, it isn't a good team. If Scizor's sole objective is to damage the opposing team, in 10/10 cases, Scizor should, on principle, achieve nothing - It would force out your opponent's Scizor counter, but your team does not capitalise on that.

Looking over the top ten leads, we see that where Scizor achieves nothing, the opposing lead achieves their goal.
Metagross:
SR (Objective Achieved: Yes)
Method: SR and Switch
(Scizor's Objective: No)
Reason: Scizor can 2HKO if it Swords Dances (3 turns), but Metagross with Earthquake will KO Scizor first because of Scizor's Life Orb. Having no imminent KO to fear, Metagross is safe to set up SR and switch out. It has achieved its goal and is still around to revenge kill with Bullet Punch and Explode.

Azelf:
SR (Objective Achieved: Yes)
Method: Attack and SR
(Scizor's Objective: No)
Reason: Azelf could just Stealth Rock first, but it is able to kill Scizor with Fire Blast and then set up rocks without dying. The combined chance of Fire Blast missing and Azelf not having Fire Blast is significantly less than Scizor prevailing. If all Azelf wants to do is set up Stealth Rock, as a priority over Exploding, it is free to.

:: Your team has Heatran, which puts Azelf in a tight spot.

Jirachi:
Prevent SR/Trick Wall/SR (Objective Achieved: Yes)
Method: Scizor does not have SR, while Jirachi can just kill Scizor.
(Scizor's Objective: No)
Reason: Jirachi 3HKOs Scizor with Iron Head. Scizor has a slim chance to 0HKO with a +2 X-Scissor (2 turns). The chance of Scizor successfully attacking and scoring a KO is minuscule. Jirachi can Trick a wall and SR later in the match.

:: Your team has Heatran, which puts Jirachi in a tight spot.

Infernape:
SR (Objective Achieved: Yes)
Method: Attack and SR
(Scizor's Objective: No)
Reason: Infernape can Overheat and then SR, much like Azelf. Infernape can also SR first, as it is at little risk from Scizor.

:: Your team has Cresselia, which puts Jirachi in a tight spot.

Aerodactyl:
Prevent SR and SR (Objective Achieved: Yes)
Method: Scizor does not have SR, while Aerodactyl can set it up
(Scizor's Objective: No)
Reason: Aerodactyl is 2HKOd by Bullet Punch, but it will still get down SR.

Swampert:
SR (Objective Achieved: Yes)
Method: SR and Switch
(Scizor's Objective: No)
Reason: Swampert is in the exact same situation as Metagross, but there is a possibility that Swampert is the opposing team's only way to deal with Scizor. If this is the case, Swampert will win if it starts off attacking. It can come in and SR later, but will only have about 25% of its health.

Hippowdon:
SR (Objective Achieved: Yes)
Method: SR and KO
(Scizor's Objective: No)
Reason: Hippowdon 2HKOs with Earthquake after LO, while Scizor 3HKOs with its SD boosted Bullet Punch (4 turns). That means, barring a critical hit, Hippowdon can always set up SR and then kill Scizor.

Bronzong:
Dual Screens (Objective Achieved: Yes)
Method: Screen and Switch
(Scizor's Objective: No)
Reason: Scizor will 3HKO with its SD X-Scissor after Reflect is up (4 turns). Bronzong can therefore safely set up both Screens (and SR if desired) then switch out.

SR (Objective Achieved: Yes)
Method: SR and Switch
(Scizor's Objective: No)
Reason: Bronzong is in no immediate danger from Scizor and can safely set up SR and switch out. It can attempt to use Hypnosis or Trick as well. While both are moves less reliable, they will temporarily cripple Scizor, giving Bronzong more of an upper hand.

Tyranitar:
Neutralise SR Leads/Set Up SS (Objective Achieved: Yes)
Method: Scizor is not an SR lead, SS is Automatic.
(Scizor's Objective: No)
Reason: Lead Tyranitar have both Fire Punch and Counter, and either move can end Scizor. Because it lacks U-turn, SD Scizor is left with two choices. It can switch out safely, or it can take a gamble and stay in. Scizor can KO at any time with Superpower+Bullet Punch, but has to be weary of Counter. It can SD to avoid Counter, but is then at risk to Fire Punch. Either way, Tyranitar has achieved its purpose. Tyranitar is also safe to switch against SD Scizor (and still achieves its purpose when doing so), but is traditionally weary of the non-existent U-turn.

Ninjask:
Baton Pass (Objective Achieved: No)
Method: ~Depends On Set
(Scizor's Objective: Yes)
Reason: Scizor has a 50% chance to 0HKO with its SD boosted Bullet Punch, and Ninjask is unlikely to Substitute before Protecting. Even if Ninjask is successful, the Speed pass (only pass possible) is pointless as Scizor has a priority move. Baton Pass teams rely on controlling the opponent, so by taking control of the match with its speed, Scizor actually comes out on top of this lead.

:: If, after only a speed pass, something can sweep your full health team, your team sucks. Ninjask is a noob's lead.

I've run a CB Scizor lead in the past. It does better in every circumstance.
 

Keaton

Custom User Title
This is just a quick overview of the top ten leads. You might see some of these as wins for Scizor, but they're not. If a full strength team has nothing that can safely switch in and kill/force out Scizor, it isn't a good team. If Scizor's sole objective is to damage the opposing team, in 10/10 cases, Scizor should, on principle, achieve nothing - It would force out your opponent's Scizor counter, but your team does not capitalise on that.

Looking over the top ten leads, we see that where Scizor achieves nothing, the opposing lead achieves their goal.
Metagross:
SR (Objective Achieved: Yes)
Method: SR and Switch
(Scizor's Objective: No)
Reason: Scizor can 2HKO if it Swords Dances (3 turns), but Metagross with Earthquake will KO Scizor first because of Scizor's Life Orb. Having no imminent KO to fear, Metagross is safe to set up SR and switch out. It has achieved its goal and is still around to revenge kill with Bullet Punch and Explode.

Azelf:
SR (Objective Achieved: Yes)
Method: Attack and SR
(Scizor's Objective: No)
Reason: Azelf could just Stealth Rock first, but it is able to kill Scizor with Fire Blast and then set up rocks without dying. The combined chance of Fire Blast missing and Azelf not having Fire Blast is significantly less than Scizor prevailing. If all Azelf wants to do is set up Stealth Rock, as a priority over Exploding, it is free to.

:: Your team has Heatran, which puts Azelf in a tight spot.

Jirachi:
Prevent SR/Trick Wall/SR (Objective Achieved: Yes)
Method: Scizor does not have SR, while Jirachi can just kill Scizor.
(Scizor's Objective: No)
Reason: Jirachi 3HKOs Scizor with Iron Head. Scizor has a slim chance to 0HKO with a +2 X-Scissor (2 turns). The chance of Scizor successfully attacking and scoring a KO is minuscule. Jirachi can Trick a wall and SR later in the match.

:: Your team has Heatran, which puts Jirachi in a tight spot.

Infernape:
SR (Objective Achieved: Yes)
Method: Attack and SR
(Scizor's Objective: No)
Reason: Infernape can Overheat and then SR, much like Azelf. Infernape can also SR first, as it is at little risk from Scizor.

:: Your team has Cresselia, which puts Jirachi in a tight spot.

Aerodactyl:
Prevent SR and SR (Objective Achieved: Yes)
Method: Scizor does not have SR, while Aerodactyl can set it up
(Scizor's Objective: No)
Reason: Aerodactyl is 2HKOd by Bullet Punch, but it will still get down SR.

Swampert:
SR (Objective Achieved: Yes)
Method: SR and Switch
(Scizor's Objective: No)
Reason: Swampert is in the exact same situation as Metagross, but there is a possibility that Swampert is the opposing team's only way to deal with Scizor. If this is the case, Swampert will win if it starts off attacking. It can come in and SR later, but will only have about 25% of its health.

Hippowdon:
SR (Objective Achieved: Yes)
Method: SR and KO
(Scizor's Objective: No)
Reason: Hippowdon 2HKOs with Earthquake after LO, while Scizor 3HKOs with its SD boosted Bullet Punch (4 turns). That means, barring a critical hit, Hippowdon can always set up SR and then kill Scizor.

Bronzong:
Dual Screens (Objective Achieved: Yes)
Method: Screen and Switch
(Scizor's Objective: No)
Reason: Scizor will 3HKO with its SD X-Scissor after Reflect is up (4 turns). Bronzong can therefore safely set up both Screens (and SR if desired) then switch out.

SR (Objective Achieved: Yes)
Method: SR and Switch
(Scizor's Objective: No)
Reason: Bronzong is in no immediate danger from Scizor and can safely set up SR and switch out. It can attempt to use Hypnosis or Trick as well. While both are moves less reliable, they will temporarily cripple Scizor, giving Bronzong more of an upper hand.

Tyranitar:
Neutralise SR Leads/Set Up SS (Objective Achieved: Yes)
Method: Scizor is not an SR lead, SS is Automatic.
(Scizor's Objective: No)
Reason: Lead Tyranitar have both Fire Punch and Counter, and either move can end Scizor. Because it lacks U-turn, SD Scizor is left with two choices. It can switch out safely, or it can take a gamble and stay in. Scizor can KO at any time with Superpower+Bullet Punch, but has to be weary of Counter. It can SD to avoid Counter, but is then at risk to Fire Punch. Either way, Tyranitar has achieved its purpose. Tyranitar is also safe to switch against SD Scizor (and still achieves its purpose when doing so), but is traditionally weary of the non-existent U-turn.

Ninjask:
Baton Pass (Objective Achieved: No)
Method: ~Depends On Set
(Scizor's Objective: Yes)
Reason: Scizor has a 50% chance to 0HKO with its SD boosted Bullet Punch, and Ninjask is unlikely to Substitute before Protecting. Even if Ninjask is successful, the Speed pass (only pass possible) is pointless as Scizor has a priority move. Baton Pass teams rely on controlling the opponent, so by taking control of the match with its speed, Scizor actually comes out on top of this lead.

:: If, after only a speed pass, something can sweep your full health team, your team sucks. Ninjask is a noob's lead.

I've run a CB Scizor lead in the past. It does better in every circumstance.


I see your point ^_^
Hm, Choice Band is awesome for Scizor and s you say, it does seem although it would make up for it - thanks ^_^

EDIT: Commencing Shoddy Testing tonight, Hm, it seems to be giving me grief with the selected Hidden Power's...

Can anyone confirm both Zapdos and Heatrans IV spreads for the above HP's? (best possible scenarios)...thanks ^_^
 

Slowking[George]

#SPP-WiFi HOP
Maybe give Cresselia LIght Screen or Reflect? So that you can possibly switch in a more easier way if you need to?
 
The spread Blue Ace suggested is made to be used with Life Orb, not Choice Band. Simply move 8 Hp Ev's and max out Att, making the spread 32 Hp/ 252 Att/ 224 Spe. Give Zapdos 252 Hp/ 216 Def/ 40 Spe. The Hp reaches optimal Leftovers recovery, the Def gets the highest jump point, and the Spe outruns Tyranitar, Celebi, and other Zapdos aiming to outrun Tyranitar. Regarding the Iv's, even though I'm not a 100% sure, I think that for Bold Zapdos to have Hidden Power Ice it needs an Att Iv of 22. First, select Hidden Power Ice in shoddy and then change the Iv. Again, I'm not sure.
 

zapper22001

Join BLD
I've been thinking...

Maybe you should get rid of Ice Beam on Cressy and replace it with T-Wave. It can help make up for the speed that your team lacks. You don't need to be worried about Salamence since your Donphan can force it out. On the switch, Donphan can either clear the field or set up SR. A SpecsLatias can be dealt with by your Scizor provided it hasn't died while trying to stop your opponent's lead and that the Latias isn't locked into HP [Fire]. SpecsLatias can also be dealt with prediction(like every other Choice user) so it isn't that hard to stop it. T-Wave can also stop any sweeps that rely on speed and opens up a sweep for Heatran, Zapdos, and possibly Scizor.

You should keep Charge Beam since IMO it's your best way to deal with Gyrados. Most Gyrados carry either Ice Fang or Stone Edge which can make short work of Zapdos if Gyrados has a DD behind it(Although this is highly situational and should be a rare occurence.) Your Zapdos isn't that fast and would be outsped and killed.

However, two Electric moves carry significant risk. A Jolteon, Electivire, or any Ground-type sweeper(I can't think of any besides Flygon) might see this as a free switch-in and would proceed to sweep and force you out. Though your Cressy isn't really afraid of anything besides a U-turn from Flygon which would give your opponent the upper hand and a Signal Beam from a SpecsJolt though it is very rare for them to have one. The loss of Ice Beam also takes away a loss of coverage.

The choice is yours, but I think T-Wave benefits your team since you're trying to go for a Zappy sweep(at least I think that's what you're attempting).

Hoped I helped and best of luck with your team. It's starting to look really good.
 

Keaton

Custom User Title
^Hm, you make a good arguement. Thunder Wave would benefit my team ALOT.

But, Charge Beam IMO would be the most logical to drop.
Afterall, Gyarados is countered EASILY by Cress with Ice Beam - it takes longer, but the benefit I supose also by dropping Charge Beam, is any Electivire switch-ins (which are commonly paired with Gyaras) would be suprised by the Ice Beam on the Switch.

Hm...

Thunder Wave>Charge Beam seems like the best way to remedy this, Ice Beam, IMO is far more valueable especially as it is still a deterrant to Swampert. *ponder* Does anyone else have any views on this issue?

Thank you BTW Zapper for continued help and good advice :)
 

Blue Ace

Pokemon is Dead
Zapdos: 252 HP/ 80 Def/ 176 Spe

On Zapdos, trust me it's much better, the one JRC suggested is very outdated and are meant to be used with a Bold nature, not Timid. With the EVs I suggested above, you outspeed Adamant Max Speed Salamence and Jolly Max Speed Lucario, who are two very big threats in the game, since the former is virtually uncounterable and the latter can outspeed you and hit you with a Swords Danced Ice Punch for the OHKO.

And for the record, Vaporeon lacking HP Electric do not handle Gyarados at all, especially against offensive Gyarados, it is needed, so you may want to lose Toxic for it.
 

Keaton

Custom User Title
^Thanks again for EV fixes Blue Ace :)

As for Gyara, what about Cress? Is it worth dropping Charge Beam for Thunder Wave for team support, otherwise, maybe HP Elecr. would be moe useful, however I'm then concerned about Electivires trying to take advantage :\ hm.
 

Blue Ace

Pokemon is Dead
Electivire isn't much of a threat to be honestl, and even if it manages to get a Motor Drive Boost, Cresselia, and to a lesser extent Donphan stop it cold.

In my opinion you should use HP Electric > Toxic on Vaporeon and use Reflect > Charge Beam on Cresselia, since it will help deal with some threats better, and wont make them as redundant on the team.
 

Keaton

Custom User Title
After testing last night I came to a couple of conclusions.

The main problems I encounted was Blissey and a rival Zapdos.

Blissey was a HUGE pain in the *****, costing me the match. Both Donphan and Scizor had bitten the dust after an annoying bout' with an endlessly switching Swampert ¬_¬; which meant that I was left to attempt to outstall Blissey with Heatran/Vaporeon (poisioning then swapping for CS Overheat), but sadly t'was not meant to be ^^ - still gettign used to the team ^_^

THe rival Zapdos was an odd one. It was a lead that had a massive amount of speed behind it, atleast one point faster than my Zapdos. It lead with Rain Dance and boasted Thunder, which was frustrating ¬_¬ lol

Other than that, which, tbh, probably could've been avoided with better team management - it all went pretty well :)

Thanks BA again, I think Reflect and HP Electr are great ideas :)
 
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