September 1st: SM137 - Guzma the Undefeated!

[GarchompChain]

That may be, but the evidence of him getting swept are stacking up against him getting a single knockout.

The preview for episode 136 only shows Ash using Torrecat, while Guzma is using both Scisor and Golisipod. And we both know from the summary that Torrecat defeats Scisor. We also know that this is after Golisipod activates emergency exit. Also from the preview for episode 136 that Torrecat lands a big revenge on Golisipod, past its shield and straight into its gut, which may cause emergency exit. We also know from the summary of this episode that Guzma sees professor Kukui in Ash's eyes, so we can say that Torrecat is the only Pokémon that has a connection to professor Kukui. So this may mean that Ash may get a sweep.

I don't see how all of this is pointing to a sweep. We know that Torracat triggers Emergency Exit and that he defeats Scizor. Also, this battle continues in the next episode.

I'm not saying a sweep isn't possible, but I see nothing pointing at it.

 

[ash&charizardfan]

Ash is not getting a sweep, he could not sweep trainers like nando in sinnoh league or macy in johto league noway he is gonna sweep a trainer like guzma who is not only stronger than those trainers but also is important to be shown strong for storyline.

 

[Almighty Zard]

a sweep (unlikely as it seems) would definitely provoke a reaction out of Guzma.

 

[WaterShuriken]

Ash is not getting a sweep, he could not sweep trainers like nando in sinnoh league or macy in johto league noway he is gonna sweep a trainer like guzma who is not only stronger than those trainers but also is important to be shown strong for storyline.

Ash swept Hala 2-0 (with two Pokémon) and Nanu 3-0 (with one Pokémon)

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Ash swept Hala 2-0 (with two Pokémon) and Nanu 3-0 (with one Pokémon)

First one was a surprise, but then again, Rowlet fell asleep and we don't know if Hala would have let him wake up or left him asleep to taking him out during the battle.

Besides Nanu's battle being absolutely weird, Sunny D-roc did get to eat a Sitrus Berry before the last match (sponsored by Tapu Bulu). So it's not legitimately the usual sweep.

 

[DuquÊ?]

How bad apparently no one is more wise about emergency exit, you would expect that was well known by veteran trainers (I do assume Kukui and Hala knows about that "weak point" too). Well, if Ash had a pokemon able to use simple beam or someone with sheer force, Guzma wouldn't have a excuse.

 

[andrewscott48209]

How bad apparently no one is more wise about emergency exit, you would expect that was well known by veteran trainers (I do assume Kukui and Hala knows about that "weak point" too). Well, if Ash had a pokemon able to use simple beam or someone with sheer force, Guzma wouldn't have a excuse.

How about a revenge shot straight to the gut?

 

[Shadao]

Ash is not getting a sweep, he could not sweep trainers like nando in sinnoh league or macy in johto league noway he is gonna sweep a trainer like guzma who is not only stronger than those trainers but also is important to be shown strong for storyline.

Guzma is a paper tiger who will run from a battle with the excuse that he's no longer interested. Plumeria even hints to that when the Skull Grunts boast that Guzma is undefeated. After all, how else could anyone be "undefeated" and still be just a leader of a delinquent gang. That's how a bully operates. Act all high and mighty when picking on weaker opponents but cower when faced with a real challenge.

Oh, and Ash has swept League battles before. He utterly destroyed Mandi, a popular trainer who was confident in his abilities and thought Ash would be an easy opponent, with only Krabby that suddenly evolved into Kingler. 3-0. And that was his first League match. Then consider the fact that he was implied to have easily won the first Kalos League match with just Ash-Greninja.

As Plumeria said to Guzma, do not underestimate Ash. And for Guzma, nothing can scream more public hulimation than losing to Ash in a sweep battle in front of the whole League.

 

[GarchompChain]

Guzma is a paper tiger who will run from a battle with the excuse that he's no longer interested. Plumeria even hints to that when the Skull Grunts boast that Guzma is undefeated. After all, how else could anyone be "undefeated" and still be just a leader of a delinquent gang. That's how a bully operates. Act all high and mighty when picking on weaker opponents but cower when faced with a real challenge.

Oh, and Ash has swept League battles before. He utterly destroyed Mandi, a popular trainer who was confident in his abilities and thought Ash would be an easy opponent, with only Krabby that suddenly evolved into Kingler. 3-0. And that was his first League match. Then consider the fact that he was implied to have easily won the first Kalos League match with just Ash-Greninja.

As Plumeria said to Guzma, do not underestimate Ash. And for Guzma, nothing can scream more public hulimation than losing to Ash in a sweep battle in front of the whole League.

It wasn't really implied. And besides, implied doesn't count. We don't know what happened there.

 

[Shadao]

It wasn't really implied. And besides, implied doesn't count. We don't know what happened there.

Well @AshSerena did imply that's how the scene went based on her tweet. And honestly, it's honestly hard to see Emergency Exit as anything but Guzma running away like a coward just to maintain his aura of being "unbeatable."

 

[DuquÊ?]

I think it depends on how Ash will go with the battle. After that blunder rowlet played against decidueye wasn't considered defeat, I fail to see how emergency exit would be considered withdraw/flee from the battle, since it's an ability, not something Guzma can control. Or, in a meta sense, it's just to highlight Guzma's running away from Kukui and Hala.

 

[GarchompChain]

Well @AshSerena did imply that's how the scene went based on her tweet. And honestly, it's honestly hard to see Emergency Exit as anything but Guzma running away like a coward just to maintain his aura of being "unbeatable."

I meant the Kalos league first round.

 

[Zoruagible]

I don't see the issue with Ash sweeping, Pikachu and Lycanroc had enough battles and will obviously be in the next round anyways. Not like Torracat's stealing their thunder...

And Torracat's the only one of Ash's team aside from those two that could pull off a sweep while being believable. It benefits Torracat too

 

[Lunanight]

Ash is not getting a sweep, he could not sweep trainers like nando in sinnoh league or macy in johto league noway he is gonna sweep a trainer like guzma who is not only stronger than those trainers but also is important to be shown strong for storyline.

The only reason Ash didn't sweep Nando is because he used wasn't using more powerful Pokemon, which he could have easily done. Ash would have swept Nando 3-0 singlehandedly using Infernape, let alone Sceptile who was even stronger. As for Macy, he would have swept her if he actually used the stronger Pokemon that he owned at the time (i.e. Charizard, Snorlax, etc).

One thing people forget is that if Ash switched out Gliscor for Infernape after beating Drapion, then Ash would have actually beat Paul of all trainers 6-3 without needing Infernape's Blaze at all. The Ash vs Paul battle was only 6-5 because Ash kept out Gliscor, then sent out Pikachu, and then deliberately triggered Motor Drive because he tried to play 4D Chess using Pikachu and it backfired spectacularly. The writers love having the winner of a battle being pushed to their last Pokemon, even when said trainer would win 6-4 or 6-3 (or 3-1 or 3-0 in a 3v3 battle) by conserving their remaining Pokemon.

As for Guzma, if Torracat is capable of pushing Golisopod into using Emergency Exit then beats Scizor right afterwards then no, Guzma isn't stronger than Nando. Remember that Nando had to battle three of Ash's Pokemon: Quilava is stronger than Torracat, Heracross is much stonger than Torracat, and the context of Staraptor's win over Paul's Weavile also puts it above Torracat. This is because Staraptor basically tanked a Stone Edge from Paul's Torterra (stronger than any Pokemon belonging to anyone in the Alola League), beat Weavile at a type disadvantage despite taking massive damage from Torterra, and was still able hit Ursaring once before finally going down.

Despite being part Water-type, Golisopod is going to lose at least half its health, then Scizor will come out and get beat by Torracat who already had to battle Guzma's strongest Pokemon. The fact that Golisopod is struggling against a Pokemon it has a big advantage over suggests that Guzma, while stronger than everyone except the semi-finalists, isn't actually top tier. It makes me believe Golisopod's fight against SM Pikachu was actually just a massive outlier whereby Pikachu was the one nerfed for that battle.

TL;DR: Ash is very much capable of sweeping trainers much stronger than Guzma, and doesn't sweep often because he choses to use weaker Pokemon. Nando is actually a better trainer than Guzma overall, and all three of the Pokemon Ash used against Nando were stronger than Torracat.

 

[mehmeh1]

The only reason Ash didn't sweep Nando is because he used wasn't using more powerful Pokemon, which he could have easily done. Ash would have swept Nando 3-0 singlehandedly using Infernape, let alone Sceptile who was even stronger. As for Macy, he would have swept her if he actually used the stronger Pokemon that he owned at the time (i.e. Charizard, Snorlax, etc).

One thing people forget is that if Ash switched out Gliscor for Infernape after beating Drapion, then Ash would have actually beat Paul of all trainers 6-3 without needing Infernape's Blaze at all. The Ash vs Paul battle was only 6-5 because Ash kept out Gliscor, then sent out Pikachu, and then deliberately triggered Motor Drive because he tried to play 4D Chess using Pikachu and it backfired spectacularly. The writers love having the winner of a battle being pushed to their last Pokemon, even when said trainer would win 6-4 or 6-3 (or 3-1 or 3-0 in a 3v3 battle) by conserving their remaining Pokemon.

As for Guzma, if Torracat is capable of pushing Golisopod into using Emergency Exit then beats Scizor right afterwards then no, Guzma isn't stronger than Nando. Remember that Nando had to battle three of Ash's Pokemon: Quilava is stronger than Torracat, Heracross is much stonger than Torracat, and the context of Staraptor's win over Paul's Weavile also puts it above Torracat. This is because Staraptor basically tanked a Stone Edge from Paul's Torterra (stronger than any Pokemon belonging to anyone in the Alola League), beat Weavile at a type disadvantage despite taking massive damage from Torterra, and was still able hit Ursaring once before finally going down.

Despite being part Water-type, Golisopod is going to lose at least half its health, then Scizor will come out and get beat by Torracat who already had to battle Guzma's strongest Pokemon. The fact that Golisopod is struggling against a Pokemon it has a big advantage over suggests that Guzma, while stronger than everyone except the semi-finalists, isn't actually top tier. It makes me believe Golisopod's fight against SM Pikachu was actually just a massive outlier whereby Pikachu was the one nerfed for that battle.

TL;DR: Ash is very much capable of sweeping trainers much stronger than Guzma, and doesn't sweep often because he choses to use weaker Pokemon. Nando is actually a better trainer than Guzma overall, and all three of the Pokemon Ash used against Nando were stronger than Torracat.

We don't really know how strong Torracat is, given how its last concrete feats are from over 50 episodes ago, as for Golisopod vs Pikachu, it's more due to Ash not knowing its weakness (the insides) and being the first time he's even seen a Golisopod, not to mention that while Pikachu was getting beaten up, he kept getting back on his feet

 

[Bortgreen]

TL;DR: Ash is very much capable of sweeping trainers much stronger than Guzma, and doesn't sweep often because he choses to use weaker Pokemon. Nando is actually a better trainer than Guzma overall, and all three of the Pokemon Ash used against Nando were stronger than Torracat.

Well indeed he could just call GPICSS(Greninja, Pikachu, Infernape, Charizard, Sceptile and Snorlax) and wipe out everyone

 

[GarchompChain]

Well indeed he could just call GPICSS(Greninja, Pikachu, Infernape, Charizard, Sceptile and Snorlax) and wipe out everyone

A true winner would do just that.

 

[Master Pikachu 11]

Torracat will not be sweeping against Guzma, the writers are going to have Ash send out his second Pokémon to make the battle more interesting and Pikachu will be the one that he uses. If you learned nothing from the battle against Hapu, Ash will always send out the same Pokémon that pretty much got beat or close to being beat against an opponent that he has faced before. This battle against Guzma will set up Pikachu coming in and getting redemption against an opponent that poisoned and almost knocked him out. If it was a one v one then Pikachu would have been used over Torracat just for the same reason, but because the summary for this episode teased at Torracat being used that is how I knew it was going to be a 2 v 2 because it’s all about paying attention to not only the entire series, but paying attention to Ash’s character and what he will do in battles.

 

[IkeBayern]

Well indeed he could just call GPICSS(Greninja, Pikachu, Infernape, Charizard, Sceptile and Snorlax) and wipe out everyone

That would be so easy and so unfair lol, I bet Ash’s 2nd, 3rd and 4th teams could make a run at winning the Alola League.. I would so watch that!

But honestly in the future they should allow Ash to be able to use his old Pokémon in battles, that’s why the D/P league arc was the best one imo as we got to see some fan favorites battle side by side with their trainer and do pretty well

I hate to see that Ash (who’s actually become a decent trainer) be nerfed and have to use Pokémon he only caught in Alola + Pikachu to try and win this glorified Pokémon school tournament just to face Professor Kukui in a mask

 

[Zariful]

For what it’s worth, Torracat not only weakens Golisopod and take outs Scizor. That’s a pretty decent amount of focus. And you can guarantee that no matter who wins this league, Torracat will get its rematch with Incineroar.