September 22nd: SM140 - Akuziking Attacks! The Decisive Z-Move Battle!!

[izmir]

First Melmetal and now Naganadel? Ash is the new Tobias lol.

 

[Deleted member 384931]

Why would you watch the episode if they spoil the episode?

 

[1rkhachatryan]

Yassssss Poipole is back and evolved, I'm so happy!!! Hopefully he kicks some butt .

 

[Doppelgänger]

I loved Poipole and its story but tbh I’m kinda disappointed that Ash isn’t gonna use his best Pokémon against the Masked Royal who obviously is the regions strongest trainer or at the very least give some of his other Pokémon a “redemption victory”..

The writers probably decided that Ash’s best Pokémon don’t really need an extra loss on their resume and it’s not like the result was gonna change anyways regardless of who he used and it was much easier to bring Poipole back instead!

I was inclined toward the same before the Naganadel reveal. But that top 4 of Pikachu, Melmetal, Naganadel and Lycanroc are far stronger than the top 4 from any prior region.

Hoenn: Grovyle, Glalie, Corphish, Swellow
Sinnoh: Infernape, Pikachu, Gliscor...Gible?
Unova: Krookodile, Pikachu, Pignite...Scraggy?
Kalos: Greninja, Pikachu...Hawlucha? Talonflame?

You'd have to go back to Johto (Charizard, Heracross, Snorlax...Kingler? Muk?) for a team that feels as stacked, and even then I'm not convinced. Ash has access to Z-Moves too, and that is a looming threat with any member of his Alola team.

It says a lot where Torracat, who is Pignite-tier, might be the weakest member of Ash's team right now. Rowlet is unevoled, but he's clearly stronger than Unfezant and Pidgeot, and might be stronger than Staraptor/Talonflame. That's insane to think about.

 

[ash&charizardfan]

One more thing naganadel is a fast and speedy pokemon so it would definitely be right mix for ash who works well with speedy pokemon.

 

[Deleted member 384931]

One more thing naganadel is a fast and speedy pokemon so it would definitely be right mix for ash who works well with speedy pokemon.

Wouldn't it make Ash too OP?

 

[GarchompChain]

I was inclined toward the same before the Naganadel reveal. But that top 4 of Pikachu, Melmetal, Naganadel and Lycanroc are far stronger than the top 4 from any prior region.

Hoenn: Grovyle, Glalie, Corphish, Swellow
Sinnoh: Infernape, Pikachu, Gliscor...Gible?
Unova: Krookodile, Pikachu, Pignite...Scraggy?
Kalos: Greninja, Pikachu...Hawlucha? Talonflame?

You'd have to go back to Johto (Charizard, Heracross, Snorlax...Kingler? Muk?) for a team that feels as stacked, and even then I'm not convinced. Ash has access to Z-Moves too, and that is a looming threat with any member of his Alola team.

It says a lot where Torracat, who is Pignite-tier, might be the weakest member of Ash's team right now. Rowlet is unevoled, but he's clearly stronger than Unfezant and Pidgeot, and might be stronger than Staraptor/Talonflame. That's insane to think about.

It is insane to think about. It's also not true. Rowlet stronger than Staraptor or Talonflame? Give me a break.

 

[ash&charizardfan]

Wouldn't it make Ash too OP?

No melmetal and naganadel haven't shown any major feats that would put them in OP level , people said the same thing about goodra and we saw how it turned out.

I was inclined toward the same before the Naganadel reveal. But that top 4 of Pikachu, Melmetal, Naganadel and Lycanroc are far stronger than the top 4 from any prior region.

Hoenn: Grovyle, Glalie, Corphish, Swellow
Sinnoh: Infernape, Pikachu, Gliscor...Gible?
Unova: Krookodile, Pikachu, Pignite...Scraggy?
Kalos: Greninja, Pikachu...Hawlucha? Talonflame?

You'd have to go back to Johto (Charizard, Heracross, Snorlax...Kingler? Muk?) for a team that feels as stacked, and even then I'm not convinced. Ash has access to Z-Moves too, and that is a looming threat with any member of his Alola team.

What BS, naganadel and melmetal haven't got even a single win them and are still untested, lycannroc have only battled trainers from alola which includes trial kahunas who are atleast one level behind gym leaders, how is alolan top 4 stronger than kanto, kalos, hoenn and sinnoh one who had to go through more stronger trainers. For all we know both melmetal and naganadel can turn up just like goodra and could job against MR.

Kanto- Charizard, Snorlx, Bulbasaur, Pikachu is the strongest with kalos top 4 close behind, hoenn and then sinnoh top 4 they are all stronger than alola top 4.

It is insane to think about. It's also not true. Rowlet stronger than Staraptor or Talonflame? Give me a break.

Talonflame was used in 7 gyms and got wins in 6 of them, it is just behind swellow in strongest flying type owned by ash and not to mention it faced far tougher opponents than rowlet, i dont know how can any sane person even think rowlet is better than talonflame. Its same with staraptor it may not be as stong as swellow or talonflame but it is better than rowlet..

 

[Locormus]

I was inclined toward the same before the Naganadel reveal. But that top 4 of Pikachu, Melmetal, Naganadel and Lycanroc are far stronger than the top 4 from any prior region.

Hoenn: Grovyle, Glalie, Corphish, Swellow
Sinnoh: Infernape, Pikachu, Gliscor...Gible?
Unova: Krookodile, Pikachu, Pignite...Scraggy?
Kalos: Greninja, Pikachu...Hawlucha? Talonflame?

You'd have to go back to Johto (Charizard, Heracross, Snorlax...Kingler? Muk?) for a team that feels as stacked, and even then I'm not convinced. Ash has access to Z-Moves too, and that is a looming threat with any member of his Alola team.

It says a lot where Torracat, who is Pignite-tier, might be the weakest member of Ash's team right now. Rowlet is unevoled, but he's clearly stronger than Unfezant and Pidgeot, and might be stronger than Staraptor/Talonflame. That's insane to think about.

Lol, that's so far off reality I don't know what to say..

You're not taking into account any of the relevant matches some have fought through:
- Hoenn: I agree
- Sinnoh: Gible as the fourth?!? Yes, Draco Meteor is strong, but Torterra (despite losing to Volkner and Paul) did get close to beating Palmer's Rhyperior and did incredibly well against Bertha's Hippowdon. It also fought well as a Turtwig and a Grotle. That strength just isn't gone even if the last two match-ups weren't great. Also, Staraptor is a beast far more then Gible. Buizel tied to a Lucario early into the region.
- Unova: SCRAGGY?!? The thing literally only has joke wins under its belt (Donamite=joke, Vanillite and a Darumaka?!?). Boldore fought off Excadrill and a Reuniclus in the Junior Cup. I'd definitely put Boldore, Snivy, Leavanny or even Boldore above Scraggy. Again blatant underselling a large chunk of the team.
- Kalos: you're forgetting Goodra? If you're counting Greninja then Goodra gets to count as well. Ash-Greninja, Pikachu, Goodra, Hawlucha/Talonflame looks just as stacked.

Pignite has lots of achievements (including KO'ing a Hydreigon and Ferrothorn in the league and multiple crucial gym wins (Lenora, Brycen, Roxie). What the heck does Torracat have that's comparable? Landing a Fire Blast on an unsuspecting Scizor that's 4x weak and didn't get to block the move at all?!? It literally has nothing to show that it's even on Noivern level.. Same goes for Melmetal by the way, a joke win as Meltan and an unconvincing loss as a Melmetal. At least Noivern tied to Salamence.

Rowlet strong? Maybe, but not clearly stronger then Pidgeot (it took out a trained Rhydon! that people keep forgetting), Staraptor and Talonflame. That's a joke.

 

[p96822]

Ash being given Melmetal and Naganadel feels more lazy then good

 

[Doppelgänger]

It is insane to think about. It's also not true. Rowlet stronger than Staraptor or Talonflame? Give me a break.

I'm open to discussion. I didn't give it much serious thought.
Rowlet learned Brave Bird at the lowest evolution stage of the three. It also has access to Bloom Doom, with its best feat defeating Dartrix through a x4 Grass resistance.
Staraptor has a much better coverage move in Close Combat and used it to beat Paul's Honchkrow, which had previously defeated a Dragonite. This is probably the best feat between the three, although not a KO.
Talonflame has the most variety in its moves, and was able to use Flame Charge to defeat another Talonflame while it was a Fletchinder. I guess its most notable win was against Meowstic?

After breaking it down, Staraptor is better. Unless I'm missing something, I don't see anything Talonflame did that gives it a distinct edge.

 

[Dephender]

Come on guys, you know you're not allowed to ask for links to illegal uploads of TV footage.

 

[GarchompChain]

I'm open to discussion. I didn't give it much serious thought.
Rowlet learned Brave Bird at the lowest evolution stage of the three. It also has access to Bloom Doom, with its best feat defeating Dartrix through a x4 Grass resistance.
Staraptor has a much better coverage move in Close Combat and used it to beat Paul's Honchkrow, which had previously defeated a Dragonite. This is probably the best feat between the three, although not a KO.
Talonflame has the most variety in its moves, and was able to use Flame Charge to defeat another Talonflame while it was a Fletchinder. I guess its most notable win was against Meowstic?

After breaking it down, Staraptor is better. Unless I'm missing something, I don't see anything Talonflame did that gives it a distinct edge.

Maybe I worded it a bit harsh, apologies. But I do agree that Rowlet is a strong battler. But most of Ash's birds have proven their worth.

 

[CMButch]

Hah. I knew Poipole would return and I knew he would evolve into Naganadel off-screen. This is his final team. I don't think Torracat will evolve( someone said Torracat hates Incineroar, so why would it evolve into something he/she hates. It's bummer since I like Incineroar, anyway Torracat should've evolved way back and not now.)

 

[p96822]

I'm open to discussion. I didn't give it much serious thought.
Rowlet learned Brave Bird at the lowest evolution stage of the three. It also has access to Bloom Doom, with its best feat defeating Dartrix through a x4 Grass resistance.
Staraptor has a much better coverage move in Close Combat and used it to beat Paul's Honchkrow, which had previously defeated a Dragonite. This is probably the best feat between the three, although not a KO.
Talonflame has the most variety in its moves, and was able to use Flame Charge to defeat another Talonflame while it was a Fletchinder. I guess its most notable win was against Meowstic?

After breaking it down, Staraptor is better. Unless I'm missing something, I don't see anything Talonflame did that gives it a distinct edge.

Staraptor didn't defeat Honchkrow in a battle. It beaten it in the Pokemon Ring competition. Beside Staraptor having Close Combat Staraptor bearly have any wins in name beside Weavile and Medicham. Talonflame have many more wins.

 

[Soniman]

Torracat doesn't hate Incineroar at all??? It's just a spirited rivalry

 

[IkeBayern]

I was inclined toward the same before the Naganadel reveal. But that top 4 of Pikachu, Melmetal, Naganadel and Lycanroc are far stronger than the top 4 from any prior region.

Hoenn: Grovyle, Glalie, Corphish, Swellow
Sinnoh: Infernape, Pikachu, Gliscor...Gible?
Unova: Krookodile, Pikachu, Pignite...Scraggy?
Kalos: Greninja, Pikachu...Hawlucha? Talonflame?

You'd have to go back to Johto (Charizard, Heracross, Snorlax...Kingler? Muk?) for a team that feels as stacked, and even then I'm not convinced. Ash has access to Z-Moves too, and that is a looming threat with any member of his Alola team.

It says a lot where Torracat, who is Pignite-tier, might be the weakest member of Ash's team right now. Rowlet is unevoled, but he's clearly stronger than Unfezant and Pidgeot, and might be stronger than Staraptor/Talonflame. That's insane to think about.

I do agree that those 4 of Pikachu, Melmetal, Naganadel and Lycanroc are quite powerful especially since he has an Ultra Beast and Mythical on his team.. Torracat may evolve soon giving Ash a solid team that would rival any of his regional teams!

I just think the issue with all of this is that Ash has been going to school and living the life in Alola for majority of the season and by the end of the show he has a super strong team that’s battle ready

Naganadel hardly battled when it was in Ash’s care and I guess that rubbed people off the wrong way because it was an easy cop out instead of getting creative

 

[Doppelgänger]

It's true but a trained legend would be extremely OP and impossible to overcome for normal trainers.

Something people overlook about Tobias is that Sceptile didn't beat Darkrai 1v1. Darkrai had a lot of prior damage from Heracross and Gible. Even if he did recover some health from Dream Eater, it wasn't full health. He was still hurting when Gible damaged him, and Sceptile finished the job. The insane offensive and defensive prowess was much higher than any other Pokemon seen in the series, even Mega Charizard X. There was a large dropoff in power from Darkrai to Latios, since Pikachu's Volt Tackle was stronger than Latios' Luster Purge. None of Ash's other Pokemon could block Dark Pulse with an offensive move: Torkoal tried and was knocked out before he hit the stadium wall.

Regice was newly caught by Brandon and wasn't at the same level as Regirock or Registeel, which is why Pikachu (with only a non-STAB Iron Tail) had an easier time than Sceptile and Torkoal who had type advantages. The Latias Nurse Joy used against Forrest was heavily pressured by Rhyperior. But while the Articuno that Charizard defeated was technically wild, but it had ample battle experience under Noland.

So, even though Melmetal and Naganadel are here, if they were fully trained they'd be unstoppable like Darkrai was. When Melmetal was spinning for Double Iron Bash, Silvally's Air Slashes were bouncing off. That's another legendary Pokemon's moves just straight up doing no damage. Give these blokes the entire Sword & Shield anime to train and they will sweep teams on their own.

 

[CMButch]

I do agree that those 4 of Pikachu, Melmetal, Naganadel and Lycanroc are quite powerful especially since he has an Ultra Beast and Mythical on his team.. Torracat may evolve soon giving Ash a solid team that would rival any of his regional teams!

I just think the issue with all of this is that Ash has been going to school and living the life in Alola for majority of the season and by the end of the show he has a super strong team that’s battle ready

Naganadel hardly battled when it was in Ash’s care and I guess that rubbed people off the wrong way because it was an easy cop out instead of getting creative

Kalos team > Sinnoh team > BF team(with Sceptile) > Kanto/OI team > Alola team > Hoenn team > Unova team > Johto team.

I don't know where it could rival other teams where it's only stronger than Hoenn, Unova and Johto team.

 

[CMButch]

It's true but a trained legend would be extremely OP and impossible to overcome for normal trainers.

Something people overlook about Tobias is that Sceptile didn't beat Darkrai 1v1. Darkrai had a lot of prior damage from Heracross and Gible. Even if he did recover some health from Dream Eater, it wasn't full health. He was still hurting when Gible damaged him, and Sceptile finished the job. The insane offensive and defensive prowess was much higher than any other Pokemon seen in the series, even Mega Charizard X. There was a large dropoff in power from Darkrai to Latios, since Pikachu's Volt Tackle was stronger than Latios' Luster Purge. None of Ash's other Pokemon could block Dark Pulse with an offensive move: Torkoal tried and was knocked out before he hit the stadium wall.

Regice was newly caught by Brandon and wasn't at the same level as Regirock or Registeel, which is why Pikachu (with only a non-STAB Iron Tail) had an easier time than Sceptile and Torkoal who had type advantages. The Latias Nurse Joy used against Forrest was heavily pressured by Rhyperior. But while the Articuno that Charizard defeated was technically wild, but it had ample battle experience under Noland.

So, even though Melmetal and Naganadel are here, if they were fully trained they'd be unstoppable like Darkrai was. When Melmetal was spinning for Double Iron Bash, Silvally's Air Slashes were bouncing off. That's another legendary Pokemon's moves just straight up doing no damage. Give these blokes the entire Sword & Shield anime to train and they will sweep teams on their own.

No. Darkrai was at least 80-90% against Sceptile,sure it's not 1 on 1 but Sceptile still won against trained legendary same how he would beat Melmetal and Silvally. Darkrai is not stronger than Alain's MCX. Lmao that beast would steamroll entire Alola league.
Yes they would block Dark Pulse: Charizard, Pikachu, Infernape, Sceptile and maybe even Snorlax. Post SInnoh: A-Greninja easily with shuriken. Brandon's Regirock and Registeel would've been beaten by A-G ,Peakachu and even current Charizard.

No, Darkrai isn't unstoppable and Melmetal even if he trained he'd be strong but still fall short to at least A-G, Peakachu and Charizard(probably Sceptile and Infernape since all Ash's Pokemon are training even with Oak: Noctowl is an example). Naganadel on other hand no way he'd be unstoppable. I don't see it entering Ash's Top 6.

@345ash-greninja , please look at those posts from Ike and Dopple xD