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September 29th: SM141 - Final Battle! Satoshi VS Kukui!!

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Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
There's literally no reason to have Ash lose. He already won the League...
Besides it'll be incredibly stupid for Torracat to be the one that gets screwed over yet again, not getting to one up his rival while Lycanroc and Rowlet did.

Only way I'd accept an L for Ash at this rate is if some Galar trainer shows up in the last episode, and mostly wins because of surprise as Ash doesn't know what Gigantimax is at this time.
He already lost to him and Tapu Koko before, many times.... time for him to beat them.
Winning the league yet losing to the "Champion" of the region is an excellent way to get the point across that Ash still has a lot to learn despite his victory. And even if Torracar beats Incineroar there is the chance Kukui has a back up in case his ace falls
 

ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
Winning the league yet losing to the "Champion" of the region is an excellent way to get the point across that Ash still has a lot to learn despite his victory. And even if Torracar beats Incineroar there is the chance Kukui has a back up in case his ace falls
To be fair though they don't need Ash to lose to Kukui to get that point. If anything it would be better to have him beat Kukui and Tapu Koko and then at the very end of the series have Leon or some one else from Galar show up and beat Ash in a pokemon battle which would then get that point across as well as hype up Galar, and further motivate Ash to go to the Galar region.
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
I don't know why some people think this will happen.

The old formula is dead and it isn't coming back.
No. It's not dead. I am pretty sure it will happen. Ash won this league which is badge-less. Next league will have badges, so he will lose. Sure, doesn't mean he will as 100% but chances are pretty high and they wouldn't give Ash double victory consecutively, he won BF but lost to SL.

@Zoruagible There's literally no reason to have Ash lose. He already won the League...

Against Kukui ? If it's so, just because Ash won the league doesn't mean he will win against Kukui. Lmao. Kukui is a champion, sure he's not Champion level threat( at best E4 level) and you think Ash's current SM team would beat E4? Lol no. If Ash uses his strongest reserves than yes he has a chance, but still I see Kukui winning if Kukui is at least E4.
 

ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
No. It's not dead. I am pretty sure it will happen. Ash won this league which is badge-less. Next league will have badges, so he will lose. Sure, doesn't mean he will as 100% but chances are pretty high and they wouldn't give Ash double victory consecutively, he won BF but lost to SL.
I wouldn't really say that especially if they hype up a match between Ash and Leon. I mean let's not forget that some people were sure that Pikachu would be the pokemon to give Ash his victory and that because Pikachu wasn't his final pokemon that he would lose the Alolan League, and yet he won with Lycanroc. It is guaranteed that he would win the Galar league? No, but the chances of him losing it aren't as high as you think. At the end of the day though were just going to have to wait and see how they handle things.
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
I wouldn't really say that especially if they hype up a match between Ash and Leon. I mean let's not forget that some people were sure that Pikachu would be the pokemon to give Ash his victory and that because Pikachu wasn't his final pokemon that he would lose the Alolan League, and yet he won with Lycanroc. It is guaranteed that he would win the Galar league? No, but the chances of him losing it aren't as high as you think. At the end of the day though were just going to have to wait and see how they handle things.
I'd say that Ash will lose in Top 4 in Galar region no matter if it's regional or champion league. More chances if it's champion because we'd see Tobias and Alain again where they would beat Ash very likely, again. Yeah, but seeing how Ash can win these these middle stuff like OI, BF and Alola and lose to leagues that have badges, pretty sure sets bar high that Ash may lose Galar league and win something that has no badges like in Alola.
 

RileyXY1

Young Battle Trainer
I'd say that Ash will lose in Top 4 in Galar region no matter if it's regional or champion league. More chances if it's champion because we'd see Tobias and Alain again where they would beat Ash very likely, again. Yeah, but seeing how Ash can win these these middle stuff like OI, BF and Alola and lose to leagues that have badges, pretty sure sets bar high that Ash may lose Galar league and win something that has no badges like in Alola.
It's highly likely that the Champion's League is just the battle against the Elite 4 and Champion.
 

AuraChannelerChris

"How did you manage to faint while standing up?"
Winning the league yet losing to the "Champion" of the region is an excellent way to get the point across that Ash still has a lot to learn despite his victory. And even if Torracar beats Incineroar there is the chance Kukui has a back up in case his ace falls
Poor kid is never allowed to keep nice things for too long.
 

ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
I'd say that Ash will lose in Top 4 in Galar region no matter if it's regional or champion league. More chances if it's champion because we'd see Tobias and Alain again where they would beat Ash very likely, again. Yeah, but seeing how Ash can win these these middle stuff like OI, BF and Alola and lose to leagues that have badges, pretty sure sets bar high that Ash may lose Galar league and win something that has no badges like in Alola.
And what kind of excuse will it be if he does beat the Galar league? Will be oh but the opponents weren't that strong so it doesn't count, or something else. Also considering that if Ash does beat the Galar league they could just have him lose to Leon, no, I wouldn't say that Ash's chances are as high as you think. I mean really looking at it doesn't really matter if there is no badges or not. I mean heck if Ash wins the Galar league and then has to battle Leon how is that any different from what happened with the Alola league where he now has to battle the Masked Royal after winning the league.

I mean at the end of the day the difference between Ash winning the Alola league and winning the Galar league is really just semantics at the end of the day. I not saying that the Alola league couldn't have been handled but at the end of the day if the Alola league was handled pretty much the same including the characters that entered with the only real difference being each character having 8 badges I doubt that people would have just suddenly been happy or satisfied it as if it somehow would fix that particular's leagues problems.
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.

And what kind of excuse will it be if he does beat the Galar league? Will be oh but the opponents weren't that strong so it doesn't count, or something else. Also considering that if Ash does beat the Galar league they could just have him lose to Leon, no, I wouldn't say that Ash's chances are as high as you think. I mean really looking at it doesn't really matter if there is no badges or not. I mean heck if Ash wins the Galar league and then has to battle Leon how is that any different from what happened with the Alola league where he now has to battle the Masked Royal after winning the league.

I mean at the end of the day the difference between Ash winning the Alola league and winning the Galar league is really just semantics at the end of the day. I not saying that the Alola league couldn't have been handled but at the end of the day if the Alola league was handled pretty much the same including the characters that entered with the only real difference being each character having 8 badges I doubt that people would have just suddenly been happy or satisfied it as if it somehow would fix that particular's leagues problems.
There won't be any excuse... he won and that's it. Personally, I don't think he will. If he does, good for him he would win first major league, which would be next step for Pokemon Master. Only way he can win these types of leagues and even champion leagues is if title Pokemon Master or steps for being Pokemon master are tied with show's endurance. You do understand that show promotes games, as long as games are made, show will be made. So, show will end ( Ash becomes Pokemon Master) when Pokemon is done. I don't see Pokemon stopping anytime soon. Pokemon hit peak of popularity in these recent years same as it was like 20 years ago. If Pokemon games will be made in 50 years, Ash will be with us for 50 years( so it depends on endurance of games: that's a fact). So he will become Pokemon Master in like 2070( if games/Pokemon end on that year), that's just an example. Even Rica said he has long way to become PM. So, unless steps for PM are huge and big, then I can see Ash winning important leagues. But, I still think he will lose in them and win stuff like BF/Alola/OI.

How is different? I am talking about structure of leagues. In Galar there will be 8 badges where participants must earn them in order to battle in tournament. In Alola; JJM , principal can battle.That alone puts it on higher pedestal than Alola league.

Alola could've handled better by making participants beating 4 kahunas in order to participate instead of saying everyone can enter. That's why many of us don't think highly of this league. This league is not same as other important leagues. 8 badges are still big requirement than have nothing. Hell even clearing 4 Kahunas would be better than nothing.
 

TheWanderingMist

Kanae, Keeper of the Gates Emblazoned
There won't be any excuse... he won and that's it. Personally, I don't think he will. If he does, good for him he would win first major league, which would be next step for Pokemon Master. Only way he can win these types of leagues and even champion leagues is if title Pokemon Master or steps for being Pokemon master are tied with show's endurance. You do understand that show promotes games, as long as games are made, show will be made. So, show will end ( Ash becomes Pokemon Master) when Pokemon is done. I don't see Pokemon stopping anytime soon. Pokemon hit peak of popularity in these recent years same as it was like 20 years ago. If Pokemon games will be made in 50 years, Ash will be with us for 50 years, that's a fact. So he will become Pokemon Master in like 2070( if games end on that year), that's just an example. Even Rica said he has long way to become PM. So, unless steps for PM are huge and big, then I can see Ash winning leagues. But, I still think he will lose.

How is different? I am talking about structure of leagues. In Galar there will be 8 badges where participants must earn them in order to battle in tournament. In Alola; JJM , principal can battle.That alone puts it on higher pedestal than Alola league.

Alola could've handled better by making participants beating 4 kahunas in order to participate instead of saying everyone can enter. That's why many of us don't think highly of this league. This league is not same as other important leagues. 8 badges are still big requirement than have nothing. Hell even clearing 4 Kahunas would be better than nothing.
There wasn't enough time between the announcement of the League and the commencement of the League for that to be fair. It can't have been more than a month between the two, and no one was ever going to clear anything that quickly.
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
There wasn't enough time between the announcement of the League and the commencement of the League for that to be fair. It can't have been more than a month between the two, and no one was ever going to clear anything that quickly.
Well, he could've said it all after EP 42( after Kanto Trip) about rules, requirements etc there was time.. a lots of time.
 

ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
There won't be any excuse... he won and that's it. Personally, I don't think he will. If he does, good for him he would win first major league, which would be next step for Pokemon Master. Only way he can win these types of leagues and even champion leagues is if title Pokemon Master or steps for being Pokemon master are tied with show's endurance. You do understand that show promotes games, as long as games are made, show will be made. So, show will end ( Ash becomes Pokemon Master) when Pokemon is done. I don't see Pokemon stopping anytime soon. Pokemon hit peak of popularity in these recent years same as it was like 20 years ago. If Pokemon games will be made in 50 years, Ash will be with us for 50 years, that's a fact. So he will become Pokemon Master in like 2070( if games end on that year), that's just an example. Even Rica said he has long way to become PM. So, unless steps for PM are huge and big, then I can see Ash winning leagues. But, I still think he will lose.

How is different? I am talking about structure of leagues. In Galar there will be 8 badges where participants must earn them in order to battle in tournament. In Alola; JJM , principal can battle.That alone puts it on higher pedestal than Alola league.

Alola could've handled better by making participants beating 4 kahunas in order to participate instead of saying everyone can enter. That's why many of us don't think highly of this league. This league is not same as other important leagues. 8 badges are still big requirement than have nothing. Hell even clearing 4 Kahunas would be better than nothing.
So what your saying is if the only thing we change about the Alola is making it require 8 gym badges or beat the 4 kahuna as a entry but every thing else about the Alola league stays the exactly the same then somehow it would be a "real" league? That doesn't solve anything sure people may like to poke at the fact that there is no entry requirement to the Alola league, but that isn't really the problem people have with the league. More so people's problem with the Alola league was more so how the battles were handle, the participants entering and the format of the battles. Adding a entry requirement isn't automatically going to fix those things.

Also if you really think that badges change a lot then how about this go back and take whatever your favorite league is that you think is the best league, and then just remove the 8 badges from it, while keeping everything else about that league the same, so would that league suddenly not be your favorite or be the best league all because it didn't have the badge requirement even though everything else was the same?

Also I'm pretty sure it's been stated that even if Ash does win a regional league that require 8 gym badges that doesn't automatically make him a pokemon master so even if he beat the Galar league the show would not have to end because he still wouldn't be a pokemon master.
 

TheWanderingMist

Kanae, Keeper of the Gates Emblazoned
Well, he could've said it all after EP 42( after Kanto Trip) about rules, requirements etc there was time.. a lots of time.
Not really...he had to convince the kahunas to agree to a League in the first place...and Nanu was probably not enthusiastic about it. He announced it as early as he could.
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.

So what your saying is if the only thing we change about the Alola is making it require 8 gym badges or beat the 4 kahuna as a entry but every thing else about the Alola league stays the exactly the same then somehow it would be a "real" league? That doesn't solve anything sure people may like to poke at the fact that there is no entry requirement to the Alola league, but that isn't really the problem people have with the league. More so people's problem with the Alola league was more so how the battles were handle, the participants entering and the format of the battles. Adding a entry requirement isn't automatically going to fix those things.

Also if you really think that badges change a lot then how about this go back and take whatever your favorite league is that you think is the best league, and then just remove the 8 badges from it, while keeping everything else about that league the same, so would that league suddenly not be your favorite or be the best league all because it didn't have the badge requirement even though everything else was the same?

Also I'm pretty sure it's been stated that even if Ash does win a regional league that require 8 gym badges that doesn't automatically make him a pokemon master so even if he beat the Galar league the show would not have to end because he still wouldn't be a pokemon master.
I have never said that Alola league is fake.It is real but not as important as other leagues,sure some said it is not real but that ain't me. I don' have problems with battles. Battles for me had been meh,ok ,bad and good.Oh and final two battles should have been 6 on 6. My favorite league is Sinnoh and by removing badges it would still be my favorite because it was executed amazingly. Alola league is even better than Kanto IMO.So what are you implying that I love leagues with badges more than Alola is incorrect. Again I am talking about importance of the leagues
Alola league is important even like BF but not as much as KJHSUK leagues.This has nothing to do with favoritism.
 

ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
I have never said that Alola league is fake.It is real but not as important as other leagues,sure some said it is not real but that ain't me. I don' have problems with battles. Battles for me had been meh,ok ,bad and good.Oh and final two battles should have been 6 on 6. My favorite league is Sinnoh and by removing badges it would still be my favorite because it was executed amazingly. Alola league is even better than Kanto IMO.So what are you implying that I love leagues with badges more than Alola is incorrect. Again I am talking about importance of the leagues
Alola league is important even like BF but not as much as KJHSUK leagues.This has nothing to do with favoritism.
Then regardless of whether or not a league has badges does not determine if Ash will win or lose a league. If Ash is going to win the Galar League then he would win regardless of it had badges or not. Same with Alola it didn't matter if Alola had an entry requirement or not as Ash was already planned to win the Alola league. Even if Ash wins the Galar league that doesn't make him a pokemon master or prevent him from going to the next region just because the Galar league had a entry requirement of badges. If anything what could easily happen is Ash could beat the Galar league and then lose to the current champion Leon and then wind up going to the next region.

Which wouldn't be any different from what could happen in Alola. Really the only differences between the Galar league and the Alola league is that the Galar league has an entry requirement , has different participants, the formats of battles will probably be different, and the way Ash's team is handled would be different, but other then that Ash winning the Galar league and then losing to Leon is no different then winning the Alola league and losing to the Masked Royal.

I mean if Ash beats the Galar league and loses to the current champion of Leon how on earth is that going to prevent him from continuing his journey to the next region, when he still won't be a pokemon master yet? Especially when it's never been stated how close winning a league is to becoming a pokemon master, only that it's really just a step.

For all we know there could be multiple steps in winning the regional league like the Galar is just the first step.
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
Then regardless of whether or not a league has badges does not determine if Ash will win or lose a league. If Ash is going to win the Galar League then he would win regardless of it had badges or not. Same with Alola it didn't matter if Alola had an entry requirement or not as Ash was already planned to win the Alola league. Even if Ash wins the Galar league that doesn't make him a pokemon master or prevent him from going to the next region just because the Galar league had a entry requirement of badges. If anything what could easily happen is Ash could beat the Galar league and then lose to the current champion Leon and then wind up going to the next region.

Which wouldn't be any different from what could happen in Alola. Really the only differences between the Galar league and the Alola league is that the Galar league has an entry requirement , has different participants, the formats of battles will probably be different, and the way Ash's team is handled would be different, but other then that Ash winning the Galar league and then losing to Leon is no different then winning the Alola league and losing to the Masked Royal.

I mean if Ash beats the Galar league and loses to the current champion of Leon how on earth is that going to prevent him from continuing his journey to the next region, when he still won't be a pokemon master yet? Especially when it's never been stated how close winning a league is to becoming a pokemon master, only that it's really just a step.

For all we know there could be multiple steps in winning the regional league like the Galar is just the first step.
I already explained it in my first comment about PM with "what ifs" (since PM is only speculation)no need to repeat/rehash/recap same statement in different context.Anyway what do you think about Ash's placement in Galar if it's Top 64/128 and do you think will Ash's placement change if there are per say 7 mcs from those 7 regions who would participate in Galar.I already said for me he'd be Top 4.
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
Galar doesn't have an Elite Four. The "Pokemon League" is structured just like Alola where there's an elimination tournament and a Champion battle at the end.

Ultimately, Gyms were always a strawman for what people didn't like about Alola. They didn't like characters who didn't battle every day or even challenging the Kahunas, have strong Pokemon and do well in a Pokemon League. The format excused their short teams, which was the biggest sign of inexperience. It also spoils their entire preconception of what Pokemon is: a grind to the top.
But,it has gyms.I like Kahunas I just wished competitors in order to participate should have taken 4 Kahunas.Yet it is free for all like JC and other BW tournamenta.Alola league is like advanced better JC.
 

ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
I already explained it in my first comment about PM with "what ifs" (since PM is only speculation)no need to repeat/rehash/recap same statement in different context.Anyway what do you think about Ash's placement in Galar if it's Top 64/128 and do you think will Ash's placement change if there are per say 7 mcs from those 7 regions who would participate in Galar.I already said for me he'd be Top 4.
I think he could get in two Top 2 or even win but then lose to the current champion Leon. It really just depends on how much they build up Ash fighting Leon or not. As for if there are 7 mcs from the other 7 regions, I don't really think that, they would impact his ranking that much, as Ash would still be the main central character. It's kind of like how Ash's classmates didn't really effect Ash's ranking in the Alola league.

Basically Ash would really fight them all, as while he might get paired against one or two, he would probably at times be parried up against a rival or another non-main character or even a character of the day. I don't think there going to drop him into top 64/128 unless the battle are extremely tough but even then given how much importance they give to Ash they may not allow the other mcs to get that far or if they do they will probably skipped out on a lot of battles.
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
I think he could get in two Top 2 or even win but then lose to the current champion Leon. It really just depends on how much they build up Ash fighting Leon or not. As for if there are 7 mcs from the other 7 regions, I don't really think that, they would impact his ranking that much, as Ash would still be the main central character. It's kind of like how Ash's classmates didn't really effect Ash's ranking in the Alola league.

Basically Ash would really fight them all, as while he might get paired against one or two, he would probably at times be parried up against a rival or another non-main character or even a character of the day. I don't think there going to drop him into top 64/128 unless the battle are extremely tough but even then given how much importance they give to Ash they may not allow the other mcs to get that far or if they do they will probably skipped out on a lot of battles.
I see,nice analysis.If there are 7 MCs + Ash I can see all 8 of them advancing to Top 8. I just hope Galar region doesn't have skips(like Alola)maybe one with Ash.But I want Galar league to be amazing as hype as Sinnoh.We need a league that can be compared to Sinnoh one,TBH.It's funny we are talking about Galar league like 3-4/years beforehand. XD.Imagine we actually predict something out of this.
 
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