September 29th: SM141 - Final Battle! Satoshi VS Kukui!!

[pokedigijedi]

I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion but I am rooting against Naganadel and Melmetal scoring any KOs because I would like too see superior skill, training, and experience trumph over raw power and natural talent I honestly don't think they've ever done it in the anime please go ahead and correct me if I am wrong.

I am also hoping this battle will end like with thatg one battle against Paul in that Ash is only able too defeat 2 of Kukui's Pokemon and the rest utterly destroys him

 

[dman_dustin]

Incineroar is the only one fighting from Kukui's side in the preview.

Don't recall seeing Naganadel, Melmetal, Rowlet, and Pikachu fighting in the preview, sure it's not just a 2 vs 2, by this logic, or even a 2 vs 1.

I said FIGHTING in the preview.

I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion but I am rooting against Naganadel and Melmetal scoring any KOs because I would like too see superior skill, training, and experience trumph over raw power and natural talent I honestly don't think they've ever done it in the anime please go ahead and correct me if I am wrong.

I am also hoping this battle will end like with thatg one battle against Paul in that Ash is only able too defeat 2 of Kukui's Pokemon and the rest utterly destroys him

So apparently other people are allowed to have magically powerful Pokemon like Tobias, but Ash isn't allowed to..... okay.

 

[Xuxuba]

I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion but I am rooting against Naganadel and Melmetal scoring any KOs because I would like too see superior skill, training, and experience trumph over raw power and natural talent I honestly don't think they've ever done it in the anime please go ahead and correct me if I am wrong.

I am also hoping this battle will end like with thatg one battle against Paul in that Ash is only able too defeat 2 of Kukui's Pokemon and the rest utterly destroys him

Isn't it cool that Naganadel battled with Ash only once as a Poipole, in a filler nonetheless, and now he appears out of nowhere having evolved and learned new moves off-screen to face against one of Alola's strongest trainer (if not the strongest)? Like, why even train your pokémon, right?

 

[dman_dustin]

Isn't it cool that Naganadel battled with Ash only once as a Poipole, in a filler nonetheless, and now he appears out of nowhere having evolved and learned new moves off-screen to face against one of Alola's strongest trainer (if not the strongest)? Like, why even train your pokémon, right?

You mean like in real life when you train for years at something, but someone younger than you comes up and defeats you pretty easily because they are naturally better than you.

Why even train if you're going to lose to someone naturally better than you?

 

[i2i]

Well he did use an Electrium Z during this week's episode.

I could see him with a Marshadow as well

It's possible it could be bring out a Galar Pokemon that hasn't been made public yet.

 

[Xuxuba]

So apparently other people are allowed to have magically powerful Pokemon like Tobias, but Ash isn't allowed to..... okay.

Oh right cuz no one has ever criticized Tobias for showing up at the League with a bunch of legendaries.

You mean like in real life when you train for years at something, but someone younger than you comes up and defeats you pretty easily because they are naturally better than you.

Why even train if you're going to lose to someone naturally better than you?

And real life rules obviously applies to an anime where the protagonist has 20 years worth of experience but still is 10 years old, right?

 

[pokedigijedi]

Don't recall seeing Naganadel, Melmetal, Rowlet, and Pikachu fighting in the preview, sure it's not just a 2 vs 2, by this logic, or even a 2 vs 1.

I said FIGHTING in the preview.



So apparently other people are allowed to have magically powerful Pokemon like Tobias, but Ash isn't allowed to..... okay.

I am actually ok with Ash owning Legendaries and UBs I just want to see them actually trained and in the event they are untrained lose to those who have been trained

 

[CMButch]

In preview it's shown Ash training Melmetal by spinning. Nice way of training Ash, maybe shake that booty a little bit after...

 

[dman_dustin]

And real life rules obviously applies to an anime where the protagonist has 20 years worth of experience but still is 10 years old, right?

Since you want to go there.

Pokemon is a scripted anime show created by real life people. It's completely fictional and made up.

Why are complaints about something scripted, legitimate again?

After all the only reason fictional characters are as strong as they are is because someone decided to write them as strong.

Therefore characters will be as strong or weak as they are written.

So again I fail to see how criticism or complaints are legitimate. Sure you can disagree with how information is presented, but unfortunately you have to accept canonical facts whether you like it or not.

 

[Blue Saturday]

Melmetal was trained and fairly caught and had its evolution foreshadowed ages ago, it’s no different from Yukiwarashi/Snorunt in AG coming to the league and evolving and taking names. Melmetal hasn’t been specified as being “legendary” only a newly-discovered Pokemon. He’s earned his due and I don’t see anything wrong with it receiving some wins or a win. Especially when Satoshi does seem to be training Double Iron Bash in the preview.

As for Agoyon, we knew he was coming. Satoshi didn’t battle much with him but he did develop a fair amount under Satoshi’s care. In the same vein trainers get new strong Pokemon or legendaries to use I don’t see anything wrong with Satoshi using Agoyon here. You can freely dislike this and I can understand why one wouldn’t but thematically Agoyon helping his unofficial dad makes sense. Zoroark was trained by Mohn but Gladion used him, a capture is a capture.

Never mind the fact Pikachu. Lugarugan, Nyaheat and Mukuroh pulled most of the load and won the league itself on their own. Pikachu finding a way around and beating Gusokusumusha’s diamond armor, Lugarugan finally besting his rival with Counter from its fight against Kuchinasu, Mukuroh learning Feather Dance and beating Hau, or Nyaheat weakening Guzma and finally getting his earned victory over one of the strongest Pokemon in the series. The buff metal giant and dragon alien wasp deserve wins if only for their place and emotional development with Satoshi too.

 

[Xuxuba]

Since you want to go there.

Pokemon is a scripted anime show created by real life people. It's completely fictional and made up.

Why are complaints about something scripted, legitimate again?

After all the only reason fictional characters are as strong as they are is because someone decided to write them as strong.

Therefore characters will be as strong or weak as they are written.

So again I fail to see how criticism or complaints are legitimate. Sure you can disagree with how information is presented, but unfortunately you have to accept canonical facts whether you like it or not.

Of course, it's a fictional series. They CAN just hand Ash strong pokémon without him ever having to train them. Doesn't mean they SHOULD.

My problem isn't that Naganadel has talent on battles, it's the waste of a character's potential and the crappy narrative.

Ash is the character who has the most screentime in this entire show. They had god knows how many episodes to make Ash train Poipole and bring him back to the series. But instead they chose to give him next to zero battle experience and only make him return when the League is already over and Ash has to face his strongest opponent in SM.

 

[mehmeh1]

Having the legends untrained is what makes them possible to defeat. If you have a trained legend, like Tobias' Darkrai, it's going to be impossible to overcome for ordinary Pokemon in a 1v1. Darkrai was beaten by the combined efforts of three Pokemon, two of which were Ash's regional aces. Meanwhile, Charizard and Pikachu came out on top against a newly caught or pseudowild Ice-types and both had super-effective attacks against the legends.

So you can take out a legend 1v1 with your best Pokemon on a good day if it's basically untrained (wild, newly caught, newly evolved). If it's fully trained, you are lucky if it doesn't sweep you.

Pikachu tied with Latios 1v1 (Sceptile did essentially no damage, while Swellow did literally no damage) with 2 attacks being NVE and the other 2 being neutral

 

[pokedigijedi]

Pikachu tied with Latios 1v1 (Sceptile did essentially no damage, while Swellow did literally no damage) with 2 attacks being NVE and the other 2 being neutral

Sadly no surprise considering A. He's the series mascot and B. Has the most the armor.

 

[Bortgreen]

Ash is spinning in the preview. Notice how both Melmetal and Nagandel have something involving spinning. And whatever other Pokémon’s signature move involves it spinning? Incineroar. /s

Now I've watched the preview with more attention, Ash and Melmetal are spinning almost exactly like Incineroar during Darkest Lariat
It's to train Melmetal of course, but considering how SM likes to foreshadow things, this might really indicate Torracat is evolving, with no sarcasm

 

[Kuzehiko]

Sadly no surprise considering A. He's the series mascot and B. Has the most the armor.

Strawman.

Pikachu has lost so many times I can't even recall. Moreover, other Pokemon have beaten legendaries as well kek.

 

[dman_dustin]

Of course, it's a fictional series. They CAN just hand Ash strong pokémon without him ever having to train them. Doesn't mean they SHOULD.

That's the thing though.

That's ALL they can do is hand Ash or any character strong Pokemon. Because a Pokemon's strength is ENTIRELY determined by the writer. Ash can capture a Pikipek and it can defeat the strongest Pokemon in the world even if its otherwise immune to flying type moves, and Pikipek can win with just peck. Likewise they can give Ash a Guzzlord and it loses to a caterpie sneezing on it.

The writers have absolute full control over how anything is written.

And on top of that the show isn't a 24/7 hour livestream of everyone's life at EVERY waking moment.

What I'm saying is how do we know Poipole didn't just battle Necrozma over and over, beaten with an inch of its life ultimately evolving into a Naganadel, in a MUCH more efficient training than Ash or any STRONG character can "reasonably" come up with.

We don't know, and I guarantee even if they did say that Naganadel trained with a powerful legendary Pokemon, people would still dismiss that as B.S. Why because people believe everything can be shown on screen of a 22 minute episode? Let's condense everyone's life of 24/7 into a split screen sped up to 22 minutes, so whatever that works out mathematically, and then maybe people will stop complaining when they see Poipole in the Ultra Space battling and training constantly.

I mean here we have a character that effectively DOES NOT exist who was in the space of non existence, somehow reached the point of evolution and learned thunderbolt.

The idea that a Pokemon can't be strong or trained or be better off until we see small progressive steps at every waking second of its entire lives, seems very illogical no matter how you look at it.

Either you try to explain it in-universe ignoring that its fictional (which was my point about people being naturally better than you) or we strictly look at it PURELY from a fictional point of view, where ultimately you have to accept things, because Pokemon isn't a documentary 24/7 series.

 

[Ignition]

Now I've watched the preview with more attention, Ash and Melmetal are spinning almost exactly like Incineroar during Darkest Lariat
It's to train Melmetal of course, but considering how SM likes to foreshadow things, this might really indicate Torracat is evolving, with no sarcasm

I never expected someone to agree with that so I’m glad you agree

 

[Xuxuba]

That's the thing though.

That's ALL they can do is hand Ash or any character strong Pokemon. Because a Pokemon's strength is ENTIRELY determined by the writer. Ash can capture a Pikipek and it can defeat the strongest Pokemon in the world even if its otherwise immune to flying type moves, and Pikipek can win with just peck. Likewise they can give Ash a Guzzlord and it loses to a caterpie sneezing on it.

The writers have absolute full control over how anything is written.

And on top of that the show isn't a 24/7 hour livestream of everyone's life at EVERY waking moment.

What I'm saying is how do we know Poipole didn't just battle Necrozma over and over, beaten with an inch of its life ultimately evolving into a Naganadel, in a MUCH more efficient training than Ash or any STRONG character can "reasonably" come up with.

We don't know, and I guarantee even if they did say that Naganadel trained with a powerful legendary Pokemon, people would still dismiss that as B.S. Why because people believe everything can be shown on screen of a 22 minute episode? Let's condense everyone's life of 24/7 into a split screen sped up to 22 minutes, so whatever that works out mathematically, and then maybe people will stop complaining when they see Poipole in the Ultra Space battling and training constantly.

I mean here we have a character that effectively DOES NOT exist who was in the space of non existence, somehow reached the point of evolution and learned thunderbolt.

The idea that a Pokemon can't be strong or trained or be better off until we see small progressive steps at every waking second of its entire lives, seems very illogical no matter how you look at it.

Either you try to explain it in-universe ignoring that its fictional (which was my point about people being naturally better than you) or we strictly look at it PURELY from a fictional point of view, where ultimately you have to accept things, because Pokemon isn't a documentary 24/7 series.

You are missing the point once again.

Poipole/Naganadel can be as naturally talented as you want him to be. But if Ash doesn't help with his growth at all by honing his skills, that is going against the entire premise of the show, which is to show a pokémon trainer TRAINING a pokémon.

 

[Twilight-Kun]

Explain the same hat then.

...They don't have the same hat

Ash doesn't own a monopoly on red hats

 

[mehmeh1]

It's kinda interesting that only 1 direct hit has been shown in this whole preview