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September 8th: SM138 - The Finals! The Ultimate Rival Showdown!!

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Blue Saturday

Unfurl your Blessed Wings!
The Alola League is a newly-established thing and Professor Kukui did it because he wanted the chance to bring his region into the league world. He was planning to establish it back during the Kanto episodes. As a result there’s no criteria to enter the league and any trainer that wants to enter can do so. So it’s a free-for-all between characters we’ve consistently seen throughout the series versus literal-who’s and a clean adaptation of the game-verse version. This league is about Alola and not Satoshi and as a result they had to spread the focus between multiple characters.

The Kalos League showed off Satoshi v. Alan, Satoshi v. Shouta, and Shouta v. Tierno in full iirc. So only three battles and only two being narratively defined fights. The Alola League had Mao, Lillie’s sibling battle, Mukuroh/Junaiper rivalry, Kaki/Gladion’s brother battle, Guzma/Satoshi’s fight for the league. This competition is clearly more focused on the agency and fidelity of the characters alongside the battles. The point is that the Alola League is the Alola League not the Kalos, Jouto or whatever league people want it to be. If you wanted high-level stakes and earth-shattering, blood thirsty fights for the crown you were never going to like this league.
 
D

Deleted member 384931

Guest
The Alola League is a newly-established thing and Professor Kukui did it because he wanted the chance to bring his region into the league world. He was planning to establish it back during the Kanto episodes. As a result there’s no criteria to enter the league and any trainer that wants to enter can do so. So it’s a free-for-all between characters we’ve consistently seen throughout the series versus literal-who’s and a clean adaptation of the game-verse version. This league is about Alola and not Satoshi and as a result they had to spread the focus between multiple characters.

The Kalos League showed off Satoshi v. Alan, Satoshi v. Shouta, and Shouta v. Tierno in full iirc. So only three battles and only two being narratively defined fights. The Alola League had Mao, Lillie’s sibling battle, Mukuroh/Junaiper rivalry, Kaki/Gladion’s brother battle, Guzma/Satoshi’s fight for the league. This competition is clearly more focused on the agency and fidelity of the characters alongside the battles. The point is that the Alola League is the Alola League not the Kalos, Jouto or whatever league people want it to be. If you wanted high-level stakes and earth-shattering, blood thirsty fights for the crown you were never going to like this league.
Totally agreed
 

Lord Starfish

Fond of owls
I think people are not happy because he didn't show any urgency in giving trials this season like impatience he shows in other regions,
That much I will agree with. He's spent a lot of time basically just doing whatever before suddenly deciding "I wanna take another Grand Trial now!" and then suddenly becoming all gung-ho about it for about five episodes, and then when all four of them were done he himself admitted he didn't know what to do next until Kukui finally gave the definitive confirmation that the League was happening soon. Really it kinda just comes back to Sun & Moon's main plot kinda... lacking any direction before the League was confirmed? I mean it first got brought up to Satoshi at the start of the Ula'ula arc, but even after that it was a pretty vague "Maybe it'll happen eventually" kinda thing before episode 115 finally definitely confirmed it.

I still don't think any of this takes away from him demonstrably being among the best trainers there though, and he's still definitely trained throughout the series... for most of his team at least. Meltan has just sort of barged in on battles and won anyway because of its stupidly OP Flash Cannon despite not really having been trained at all.
 

Doppelgänger

Superancient Member
He literally got a super special legendary Gekkouga form at the Kalos League that he didn’t need a special stone or ring to trigger and they’ve been foreshadowing Meltan’s evolution for a while now like they did with Ashimari’s. On top of that Meltan isn’t even called a “mythical” Pokemon in the anime but is simply called a “newly discovered species” the show doesn’t treat or acknowledge Meltan as being any better than any other Pokemon (thus far).

Ash-Greninja is quite literally legendary in the anime, because we got the legend of the Ninja Village hero before the form officially appeared.
 

Ambyssin

Winter can't come soon enough
Also Gladion using Silvuddy’s RKS System isn’t cheating, it’s whole schtick is it is Arceus-lite. Why wouldn’t it use its key trait in battle? It’s like not wanting Suiren to use balloons in battles. Narratively the characters were all impressed by him using the Fire Memory to help Silvuddy withstand that Z-Move and no one challenged it and Kaki was impressed and felt proud after the battle despite the loss.
Agreed, though I gotta admit his aim with those discs is pretty nuts. When Ash beats him, maybe he ought to consider taking up ultimate frisbee or frisbee golf on the side? I'm sure Alola has some sort of Pokéfrisbee competition. This is the region that's given us all the Pokésports, after all. :p
 

IkeBayern

Well-Known Member
The Alola League is a newly-established thing and Professor Kukui did it because he wanted the chance to bring his region into the league world. He was planning to establish it back during the Kanto episodes. As a result there’s no criteria to enter the league and any trainer that wants to enter can do so. So it’s a free-for-all between characters we’ve consistently seen throughout the series versus literal-who’s and a clean adaptation of the game-verse version. This league is about Alola and not Satoshi and as a result they had to spread the focus between multiple characters.

The Kalos League showed off Satoshi v. Alan, Satoshi v. Shouta, and Shouta v. Tierno in full iirc. So only three battles and only two being narratively defined fights. The Alola League had Mao, Lillie’s sibling battle, Mukuroh/Junaiper rivalry, Kaki/Gladion’s brother battle, Guzma/Satoshi’s fight for the league. This competition is clearly more focused on the agency and fidelity of the characters alongside the battles. The point is that the Alola League is the Alola League not the Kalos, Jouto or whatever league people want it to be. If you wanted high-level stakes and earth-shattering, blood thirsty fights for the crown you were never going to like this league.

Yea you’re right, people tend to forget that this is the first time that Alola has ever had a league and that Professor Kukui wanted everyone in the region to take part in realizing his dream even if they aren’t fully fledged trainers which is what he said during his league announcement..

If they wanted to make this into a higher standard league they would’ve had written some aspects of the the show differently and introduce the idea of that a league would be coming to Alola much earlier then it was actually revealed..

Kukui and Ash could’ve had a conversation at home talking about it, maybe even talking about Ash’s past for a bit, hence giving Ash something to strive for while in Alola.. He might’ve actually tried and catch a full team instead of being a lousy schoolboy when not doing trials or acting like an Alolan Power Ranger catching Ultra Beasts for Lusamine..

If I were writing the show and knew the long-time viewer would probably want to see a league with some standards, I would’ve done these things..

I probably would’ve made Kukui recruit previous Island Challengers that left Alola to come back and compete in the league, add them to the ones who completed it this saga and use those guys as my main league participants and use that as the minimum entry requirement.

I would’ve kept the Battle Royale round but I would’ve started off with 64 trainers and keep the focus on Ash and a few of his main competitors, I also wouldn’t have rushed it and given it 2 episodes to complete.

By the end of that round, only 16 would be remaining.. Have the first round be a 1v1, 2nd Round and 3rd be a 3vs3 and then make the final battle a full battle..

Add the Masked Royal exhibition to it as well and voila you have a nice league that almost everyone would enjoy and not complain about but that’s all in the past now!

so to compensate for the lack of potential battle quality, this league decided to focus more on the characters who participated instead of the actual battles themselves and how Kukui’s childhood dream is finally being realized before him with his students being his biggest supporters.

I only have an issue with the fact that they didn’t give some of Ash’s classmates more Pokémon to increase the number of Pokémon used in battle and the fact that both Team Rocket members made it past the Battle Royal stage when we could’ve had someone else participating instead!

The story arc for this league conference has been great, just think that the execution especially with certain was a bit poor but still enjoyable for my viewing regardless..
 

Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang

andrewscott48209

Well-Known Member
Yea you’re right, people tend to forget that this is the first time that Alola has ever had a league and that Professor Kukui wanted everyone in the region to take part in realizing his dream even if they aren’t fully fledged trainers which is what he said during his league announcement..

If they wanted to make this into a higher standard league they would’ve had written some aspects of the the show differently and introduce the idea of that a league would be coming to Alola much earlier then it was actually revealed..

Kukui and Ash could’ve had a conversation at home talking about it, maybe even talking about Ash’s past for a bit, hence giving Ash something to strive for while in Alola.. He might’ve actually tried and catch a full team instead of being a lousy schoolboy when not doing trials or acting like an Alolan Power Ranger catching Ultra Beasts for Lusamine..

If I were writing the show and knew the long-time viewer would probably want to see a league with some standards, I would’ve done these things..

I probably would’ve made Kukui recruit previous Island Challengers that left Alola to come back and compete in the league, add them to the ones who completed it this saga and use those guys as my main league participants and use that as the minimum entry requirement.

I would’ve kept the Battle Royale round but I would’ve started off with 64 trainers and keep the focus on Ash and a few of his main competitors, I also wouldn’t have rushed it and given it 2 episodes to complete.

By the end of that round, only 16 would be remaining.. Have the first round be a 1v1, 2nd Round and 3rd be a 3vs3 and then make the final battle a full battle..

Add the Masked Royal exhibition to it as well and voila you have a nice league that almost everyone would enjoy and not complain about but that’s all in the past now!

so to compensate for the lack of potential battle quality, this league decided to focus more on the characters who participated instead of the actual battles themselves and how Kukui’s childhood dream is finally being realized before him with his students being his biggest supporters.

I only have an issue with the fact that they didn’t give some of Ash’s classmates more Pokémon to increase the number of Pokémon used in battle and the fact that both Team Rocket members made it past the Battle Royal stage when we could’ve had someone else participating instead!

The story arc for this league conference has been great, just think that the execution especially with certain was a bit poor but still enjoyable for my viewing regardless..
Good ideas, but I have an issue. How would you incorporate Guzma's arc into the Sun and Moon story? Part of Guzma's story is that he doesn't feel the need to take on the island trials. If professor Kukui had put in the island trial requirements right away, then Guzma wouldn't have any reason to join the league and prove himself, and he might just straight up try to sabotage as many competitors as possible to negatively impact the battles, making any other competitors second guess their decision to continue, until the threat of Guzma and Team Skull is taken out. At least, with this first league having no requirements, it would allow Guzma to prove himself, and keep the rest of Team Skull at bay (besides defacing properties between Guzma's matches), and would likely allow Guzma's arc to resolve itself nicely, rather having it end up with his arrest.
 

Agstrek

Member
The Alola League is a newly-established thing and Professor Kukui did it because he wanted the chance to bring his region into the league world. He was planning to establish it back during the Kanto episodes. As a result there’s no criteria to enter the league and any trainer that wants to enter can do so. So it’s a free-for-all between characters we’ve consistently seen throughout the series versus literal-who’s and a clean adaptation of the game-verse version. This league is about Alola and not Satoshi and as a result they had to spread the focus between multiple characters.

The Kalos League showed off Satoshi v. Alan, Satoshi v. Shouta, and Shouta v. Tierno in full iirc. So only three battles and only two being narratively defined fights. The Alola League had Mao, Lillie’s sibling battle, Mukuroh/Junaiper rivalry, Kaki/Gladion’s brother battle, Guzma/Satoshi’s fight for the league. This competition is clearly more focused on the agency and fidelity of the characters alongside the battles. The point is that the Alola League is the Alola League not the Kalos, Jouto or whatever league people want it to be. If you wanted high-level stakes and earth-shattering, blood thirsty fights for the crown you were never going to like this league.

This is exactly what I wanted to say. Not to mention, this leauge is supposed to be an enjoyable experience and something that allows both the trainers and pokemon grow. We've seen this come to frutation as well.
 

Epicocity

Well-Known Member
The Alola League is a newly-established thing and Professor Kukui did it because he wanted the chance to bring his region into the league world. He was planning to establish it back during the Kanto episodes. As a result there’s no criteria to enter the league and any trainer that wants to enter can do so. So it’s a free-for-all between characters we’ve consistently seen throughout the series versus literal-who’s and a clean adaptation of the game-verse version. This league is about Alola and not Satoshi and as a result they had to spread the focus between multiple characters.

The Kalos League showed off Satoshi v. Alan, Satoshi v. Shouta, and Shouta v. Tierno in full iirc. So only three battles and only two being narratively defined fights. The Alola League had Mao, Lillie’s sibling battle, Mukuroh/Junaiper rivalry, Kaki/Gladion’s brother battle, Guzma/Satoshi’s fight for the league. This competition is clearly more focused on the agency and fidelity of the characters alongside the battles. The point is that the Alola League is the Alola League not the Kalos, Jouto or whatever league people want it to be. If you wanted high-level stakes and earth-shattering, blood thirsty fights for the crown you were never going to like this league.
Here's the problem with this: in those very episodes, Kukui is told that he needs badges to make the League, something that he actually acknowledges. Something he then chooses to ignore. He has a perfect replacement system, which he acknowledges, as being those who completed the Island Challenge...which, again, he chooses to ignore.

This being the first League does not, and should not, preclude requirements of any nature. That's just weird rationalization, especially because everything else in the tournament points towards it being, not a League of high caliber but, as Guzma put it, a "schoolyard tournament".

Between competitors able to make it to the Top 16 (a rank many have scratched and clawed their way to in the past) by doing nothing, a competitor trying to quit in the middle of battle (which is an insult to all others taking part), a referee making a possibly bad call and another referee overturning that call (which shows they haven't been trained for this like most League referees have; something we've seen the amount of effort put into in the past), and even small, seemingly innocuous things like competitors hanging in the same waiting room before a match against each other. All of these point to the un-professionalism of the League in-universe let alone outside of it.

It being the first League offers no excuses for that; even more so when Kukui is aware this isn't how Leagues actually operate. Really wish that excuse would stop being used.
 

Joltik-Kid

Careful? Where's the fun in that?
For the Gladion defense force... Anyone mind explaining the in-universe reason as to why Silvally hasn't been Gladion's go-to Pokemon this entire League exactly? I mean, surely it's legit to have a Pokemon that can change its weaknesses and resistances on the fly. Can't say he wants a fair chance battle, he's here to win and you already said it's fair for him to use the Memory Disc in battle.
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen
Here's the problem with this: in those very episodes, Kukui is told that he needs badges to make the League, something that he actually acknowledges. Something he then chooses to ignore. He has a perfect replacement system, which he acknowledges, as being those who completed the Island Challenge...which, again, he chooses to ignore.

This being the first League does not, and should not, preclude requirements of any nature. That's just weird rationalization, especially because everything else in the tournament points towards it being, not a League of high caliber but, as Guzma put it, a "schoolyard tournament".

Between competitors able to make it to the Top 16 (a rank many have scratched and clawed their way to in the past) by doing nothing, a competitor trying to quit in the middle of battle (which is an insult to all others taking part), a referee making a possibly bad call and another referee overturning that call (which shows they haven't been trained for this like most League referees have; something we've seen the amount of effort put into in the past), and even small, seemingly innocuous things like competitors hanging in the same waiting room before a match against each other. All of these point to the un-professionalism of the League in-universe let alone outside of it.

It being the first League offers no excuses for that; even more so when Kukui is aware this isn't how Leagues actually operate. Really wish that excuse would stop being used.
Leagues vary by region. Beating the Champion of the Orange League doesn't even replace the current Champion. This League could and should preclude requirements to enter because it is the inaugural League. It's clear that very few people even bother with the Island Challenge because Alola isn't big on battling, so having no requirements is a way to get as many people possible to sign up for this inaugural League. Kukui's League does NOT need badges, that was specific to the Kanto League and any region with Gyms, which Alola does not have. Given the very short time period between the League being announced and it starting, it makes NO sense to force people to complete the Island Challenge in a matter of weeks. A ref overturning another ref's call isn't unprofessional, it's to be expected. That's the entire reason for having multiple referees, so that a call can be overturned if one screws up. See: the Kanto League, where a single referee decides that the Sleep condition is equivalent to fainting and declares Squire unable to battle. A League with 8 participants (because that's probably about as many people who have the Island Challenge completed and are interested in the League) would not draw crowds or media attention, which is what Kukui wants so that more people come to Alola and do the Island Challenge as well as competing in the League.
 

Dragalge

"Orange" Magical Girl
Me watch Steelers vs Titans game other night and holding penalty was given to Steelers originally. Upon revealing more info, Titans instead get holding penalty!

Overturning calls happens all the time! It’s unprofessional not to look into stuff more after initially calling out thing!

(And Hala was aware of Rowlet’s sleeping habits long before this league happened so him thinking that Rowlet sleeping is also fine!)
 

AuraChannelerChris

Easygoing Luxray.
If Ash wins the league thanks to an untrained pokémon (a mythical, no less) suddenly getting an evolution...

Ash has become the very thing fans hate - he is the Cameron/Tobias of the Alola league, but since it's Ash, that makes it okay

Also nice to see fans already turning on Gladion, since using strategy during battle is a big no-no
Naaah, Ash needs to sweep everything in his path to be a Tobias.

At least he can be a Cameron...and that's probably even worse than a Tobias, ironically.

The Alola League is a newly-established thing and Professor Kukui did it because he wanted the chance to bring his region into the league world. He was planning to establish it back during the Kanto episodes. As a result there’s no criteria to enter the league and any trainer that wants to enter can do so. So it’s a free-for-all between characters we’ve consistently seen throughout the series versus literal-who’s and a clean adaptation of the game-verse version. This league is about Alola and not Satoshi and as a result they had to spread the focus between multiple characters.

The Kalos League showed off Satoshi v. Alan, Satoshi v. Shouta, and Shouta v. Tierno in full iirc. So only three battles and only two being narratively defined fights. The Alola League had Mao, Lillie’s sibling battle, Mukuroh/Junaiper rivalry, Kaki/Gladion’s brother battle, Guzma/Satoshi’s fight for the league. This competition is clearly more focused on the agency and fidelity of the characters alongside the battles. The point is that the Alola League is the Alola League not the Kalos, Jouto or whatever league people want it to be. If you wanted high-level stakes and earth-shattering, blood thirsty fights for the crown you were never going to like this league.

Though it doesn't really help that, from a viewer's point, a lot of what makes up this league and what has transpired so far makes no sense.
 

Sham

The Guardian of Ruin and Birth
For the Gladion defense force... Anyone mind explaining the in-universe reason as to why Silvally hasn't been Gladion's go-to Pokemon this entire League exactly? I mean, surely it's legit to have a Pokemon that can change its weaknesses and resistances on the fly. Can't say he wants a fair chance battle, he's here to win and you already said it's fair for him to use the Memory Disc in battle.
The same reason Ash doesn’t always use Pikachu despite him undoubtedly being stronger than his entire Alola team what type of question is this.
 

Doppelgänger

Superancient Member
For the Gladion defense force... Anyone mind explaining the in-universe reason as to why Silvally hasn't been Gladion's go-to Pokemon this entire League exactly? I mean, surely it's legit to have a Pokemon that can change its weaknesses and resistances on the fly. Can't say he wants a fair chance battle, he's here to win and you already said it's fair for him to use the Memory Disc in battle.

Silvally is his most powerful Pokemon, but Lycanroc is his main battling partner.
 
Here's the problem with this: in those very episodes, Kukui is told that he needs badges to make the League, something that he actually acknowledges. Something he then chooses to ignore. He has a perfect replacement system, which he acknowledges, as being those who completed the Island Challenge...which, again, he chooses to ignore.

This being the first League does not, and should not, preclude requirements of any nature. That's just weird rationalization, especially because everything else in the tournament points towards it being, not a League of high caliber but, as Guzma put it, a "schoolyard tournament".

Between competitors able to make it to the Top 16 (a rank many have scratched and clawed their way to in the past) by doing nothing, a competitor trying to quit in the middle of battle (which is an insult to all others taking part), a referee making a possibly bad call and another referee overturning that call (which shows they haven't been trained for this like most League referees have; something we've seen the amount of effort put into in the past), and even small, seemingly innocuous things like competitors hanging in the same waiting room before a match against each other. All of these point to the un-professionalism of the League in-universe let alone outside of it.

It being the first League offers no excuses for that; even more so when Kukui is aware this isn't how Leagues actually operate. Really wish that excuse would stop being used.
Totally agreed.
 
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