September 9th: PM2019 124 - The Semifinals III: Valor

[Sham]

Gengar you disappointed Ash why???? Gengar you suck

Ngl Ash sending Gengar out to fight a Dark/Ghost Type which both typing has supper effective advantage on him kinda reminds me of how he sent Noviern a Flying/Dragon Type for Alain’s Weavile.

 

[Mistycallsstaryu]

I wonder what minor faux pau Ash will make this episode that people will obsessively beat into the ground for days on end

Not using Lucario from the first minute of the episode to save himself the agony of having a close battle with Cynthia.

 

[MetaMantis]

Not using Lucario from the first minute of the episode to save himself the agony of having a close battle with Cynthia.

What is a fighting type gonna do against Spiritomb?

 

[Mistycallsstaryu]

What is a fighting type gonna do against Spiritomb?

It's Lucario. He would use aura bullet punch!

Quick attack beat Gastrodon and Lucario is Ash's ace so I don't see why he couldn't have swept Cynthia tbh.

 

[Panky..]

Ash was calling to Dragonite to wake up, when I watched the ep for the first time, I actually did expect Dragonite to wake up before the final Dream Eater finished it off. But like Ash, I was surprised it did not and it lost. Had he recalled it, as we already said, he would have hardly been better off since Dragonite would likely still be sleeping when he sent it out again.

Your constant claims, "cheap loss that made zero sense" really don't reflect what happened in the episode at all. The fact that you're seemingly so bothered by this feels more odd to me than what happened in the episode. Also you claim of Ash forgetting Sucker Punch the second time again was addressed above by Blue Saturday's post.

Dragonite was down long enough for Spiritomb (a generally slow Pokemon as seen in the anime) to land three Dream Eaters in a row. The comparison to the Sceptile scenario is null because Darkrai was a pretty quick Pokemon on its own (dodging Gible's DM effortlessly) and who had previously one-shotted a lot of Ash's party members with the sleep + Dark Void tactic (and hence really would have been pointless to recall in this case), the two scenarios are not the same.

I can understand calling out desperately for Dragonite to wake up after being put to sleep and the first Dream Eater, but the moment the second one lands and the third ones gets called / put into action, there's no reason to continue being stupid and let your own Pokemon take the fall. That's just forced dumbness for the sake of cheap drama. So yes, it's definitely a "cheap loss that made zero sense".

I'll address the Sucker Punch thing once I rewatch it, because the Gengar segment is where my stream lagged out and I can't form a proper opinion yet.

 

[KibaRL]

Dragonite was down long enough for Spiritomb (a generally slow Pokemon as seen in the anime) to land three Dream Eaters in a row. I can understand calling out desperately for Dragonite to wake up after being put to sleep and the first Dream Eater, but the moment the second one lands and the third ones gets called / put into action, there's no reason to continue being stupid and let your own Pokemon take the fall. That's just forced dumbness for the sake of cheap drama. So yes, it's definitely a "cheap loss that made zero sense".

The second and third Dream Eater pretty much happened back to back. That was when the camera was zoomed out and we saw Spiritomb just eating Dragonite on the floor. It also feels perfectly in character for Ash to hope his Pokemon hears his call to wake up. That's the usual way Ash battles, Ash calls out to his Pokemon, they get themselves together, and you see Ash breathe a sign of relief and then gets excited to battle.

It's definitely not a "cheap loss" in any way just because people wanted Ash to switch.

 

[Hekym]

I've gotten pwned by Dream Eater before. it happens. it's frustrating but it's the real deal.

 

[KibaRL]

Even if they're back to back, they happened slow enough for anyone rational and sane to come to the decision of pulling his Pokemon out of danger instead of letting it be a sitting duck, as calling out to it obviously didn't work the first few times. It's also in Ash's character to jump in quickly (and atimes recklessly) to protect helpless Pokemon, so him just staring helplessly can be considered OOC.

Please play some RDR2 and Witcher 3.

 

[GLTSRY]

If you guys got so mad about this “mistake”, then boy oh boy I’d have loved to see your reactions during Charizard vs Dusclops

 

[Kazuniya]

It's definitely not a "cheap loss" in any way just because people wanted Ash to switch.

It's a cheap loss because Ash's behavior made no sense. Ash was dumbed down for that scene so Dragonite would lose. He kept calling Dragonite's name even when obviously nothing was changing, and even when his Pokemon was obviously being drained while Spiritomb was being healed. Panky quite literally spelled it out for you, and you're ignoring it on purpose.

It's as simple as that.

When the writer forces a character to act dumb so the plot can progress to a certain point, that is cheap, that is forced. It's not good writing.

Your argument that we're calling it cheap "just because we wanted Ash to switch" is another blatant misunderstanding of what we're saying.

We didn't just want Ash to switch, we wanted his behavior to make sense. It did not make sense in that moment because the plot needed Dragonite to lose. The end. The sooner you learn what we're talking about it, the easier it will be for everyone involved.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Ngl Ash sending Gengar out to fight a Dark/Ghost Type which both typing has supper effective advantage on him kinda reminds me of how he sent Noviern a Flying/Dragon Type for Alain’s Weavile.

That was worse because Gengar isn’t 4x weak to Dark or Ghost and can hit SE attacks, plus Gengar is speedy. Noivern meanwhile is 4x weak to Ice and Weavile is faster than Noivern. Sending in Noivern against Weavile is suicide

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

It's different situation dude.
In that fight Sceptile was not getting constantly attacked like Dragonite. Dragonite was asleep and getting crushed attack after attack. The offensive pattern is different here.

The strat behind it is same though, Darkrai was put to sleep, attacked and then awoke due to Ash believing in it and shouting for it. Just because Dragonite took one-two more extra attacks doesnt mean the heart/soul of that strat still wont be there

"People are criticizing an episode and me not likey"

I gave the episode a 7/10 overall, so I liked it as a whole, but the fact you can't even tolerate people's criticism is highly obnoxious and reeks of toxic positivity. Let people talk about what they want, and you're entirely free not to engage them.

Oh please!! Pulling out that card and acting like a victim, screaming 'toxic positivity' and trying to paint a different picture then what actually happened is laughable and disingenious as hell
You literally said it is 'indefensible', saying that its totally an invalid strat, reeks of 'incompetence' yadayada while objectifying that statement and ignoring all other counterpoints so you can hate on an episode that youve been doomposting about for an entire month.
The 'toxic positivity' comments are always so laughable here on Serebii, especially when you see which users are using them and in which context

 

[MetaMantis]

We just saw a Hyper Beam hitting a Dragapult.

Was it confirmed it was Hyper Beam? Could have been any old beam.

 

[Rohanator]

Pokemon don't wake up after being recalled, either Dragonite was gonna be a sitting duck now or a sitting duck later, it's not that deep.

 

[janejane6178]

I've gotten pwned by Dream Eater before. it happens. it's frustrating but it's the real deal.

It happenes every night to me..

 

[KibaRL]

It's a cheap loss because Ash's behavior made no sense. Ash was dumbed down for that scene so Dragonite would lose. He kept calling Dragonite's name even when obviously nothing was changing, and even when his Pokemon was obviously being drained while Spiritomb was being healed. Panky quite literally spelled it out for you, and you're ignoring it on purpose.

It's as simple as that.

When the writer forces a character to act dumb so the plot can progress to a certain point, that is cheap, that is forced. It's not good writing.

Your argument that we're calling it cheap "just because we wanted Ash to switch" is another blatant misunderstanding of what we're saying.

We didn't just want Ash to switch, we wanted his behavior to make sense. It did not make sense in that moment because the plot needed Dragonite to lose. The end. The sooner you learn what we're talking about it, the easier it will be for everyone involved.

Ash wasn't acting dumb. There's many battles in every series where his Pokemon are under distress for different reasons, he screams out to them and snaps them back into focus, and then he is relived and smiles and tells them their next attack. This was exactly the same situation.

Ash had faith in Dragonite and expected him to awake. The Dream Eater did him in but until then he was expected to wake Dragonite up. You're the one who seems far more bothered by this than you should be.

If you guys got so mad about this “mistake”, then boy oh boy I’d have loved to see your reactions during Charizard vs Dusclops

Serebii users in 2006 would be like, "Ash is dumb he tried to use a physical move against a ghost type like Dusclops!"

 

[MetaMantis]

one looped gif?

You do realize that all gifs are looped right? The word "looped" here is redundant.

 

[Evstike]

Not people getting mad over Ash not having plot armour.

 

[nuzamaki90]

Pokemon don't wake up after being recalled, either Dragonite was gonna be a sitting duck now or a sitting duck later, it's not that deep.

That’s literally what I said but it seems like it went over some opposing heads . Again, the criticism makes no sense because if Dragonite woke up and won it’d be called hack writing, but if Dragonite woke up and still lost it’d be called “Jobbernite” more than it already is and the same users would be saying Ash isn’t strong enough to win.

Ash calling out to Dragonite to wake up is not what a “Champion would do” despite the fact that the last time he did it he was able to defeat a Mythical Pokémon. Don’t even know if these are good faith arguments anymore or trolling lol.

 

[Ignition]

Can't wait for the next episode so yall can stop arguing in circles about Dragonite