September 9th: PM2019 124 - The Semifinals III: Valor

[DayQuil95]

Scraggy and Hawlucha got the absolute shortest end of the stick they could have been given, the game has blessed them with great potential for movesets.

It actually has Fire Punch as recently as Gengar learning Will-O-Wisp. Not sure what was forgotten, but it's not a big deal.

Infernape just spams Dig, thanks Paul.

Man, Fire Punch is the most unnecessary thing for Ash's Infernape, Flare Blitz and Flamethrower are far better, and I refuse to believe it swapped Dig or Mach Punch for it either.

 

[Blue Saturday]

*snip*

EDIT: Thanks for adding spoiler tags.

Bleh, leak culture is so unavoidable.

Man, Fire Punch is the most unnecessary thing for Ash's Infernape, Flare Blitz and Flamethrower are far better, and I refuse to believe it swapped Dig or Mach Punch for it either.

Was that Fire Punch or just Gengar shaking hands and absorbing the fire energy.

 

[Flypikachu]

If it's not waking up and your risking it getting taken out not knowing if you'll need it later, you have to switch it out.

Lets say Ash did do the "smart thing" and switch out Dragonite... It would still be asleep later on wouldn't it? We've seen these Champions send out their aces earlier than expected (EX: Steven) - What's stopping Cynthia from simply sending out her Garchomp in return and just instantly taking out Ash's Dragonite when he does ultimately decide to switch it back in? I feel like people really are treating him not recalling a sleeping Pokemon like the worst mistake in history at this point...

Heck, she could even send in Togekiss who is part fairy, and who if the writers deem it, could possibly have a fairy type attack.

If he picks the match up correctly, Dragonite shouldn't get unnecessarily knocked out. At least not in sleep. Roserade/Gastrodon would have been good opportunities had Ash planned like that.

Again, Garchomp/Togekiss exists... I feel like it would still get knocked out, we saw how long it was asleep to the point of Spiritomb being able to use multiple Dream Eaters, I feel like that would give Cynthia plenty of time to use at least some time to call in an easy counter.

That's actually what can happen in the game, sleep isn't freeze. It's a mechanic with a set number of turns in which the earliest it can wake up is immediately. The latest being 3 turns, meaning Dragonite likely would have woken up if Ash had returned it after the 2nd Dream Eater, when it came back out.

This could have been a good strategy I'll give you that... But when it comes to using game logic in regards to the anime which seems to defy game logic whenever the writers see fit, I'm not sure.

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Anyway - Overall it's fine to criticize since it would be boring if everyone was just hyped about everything, but I really do feel like there are some people on here who have the most extreme reactions, and that's where I find posts to be exhausting to read IMO. (Also talking about the recent leak when I say this - people having extreme reactions to an episode that hasn't even come out yet to even properly judge decisions and what not...)

 

[Joltik-Kid]

Like in the Darkrai battle?

The battle where Heracross had Sleep Talk and Sceptile proved that Sleep isn't permanent? That battle? You just recently said waking up is plot armor but you use this battle as a counter argument?

And then Cynthia switches to Roserade, so Ash has to make another switch? This isn’t the games we’re switches are being punished.

Switching Dragonite into Roserade would have been a legit option for Ash, if Cynthia switches again, that doesn't stop Ash at all from doing the same. But again, by that time it's far from unreasonable to think Dragonite wakes up.

Again, you’re arguing with game mechanics when it’s quite apparent that the same brigade that has been treating this “mistake” as the biggest blunder Ash has ever done would have criticized the writers if Dragonite would’ve immediately woken up after switching.

Who are these mysterious people your arguing with that believe Dragonite waking up after being recalled would be a writing mistake? Sounds more like your arguing with yourself given everyone on this forum is telling you Ash should have switched Dragonite out once it was apparent it was not gonna wake up in time.

P.S. I also pointed out he's done so in the past against Flannery.

 

[KibaRL]

Who are these mysterious people your arguing with that believe Dragonite waking up after being recalled would be a writing mistake? Sounds more like your arguing with yourself given everyone on this forum is telling you Ash should have switched Dragonite out once it was apparent it was not gonna wake up in time.

I guarantee if Dragonite woke up as soon as Ash sent it out again, people would be calling foul on it.

 

[Joltik-Kid]

I guarantee if Dragonite woke up as soon as Ash sent it out again, people would be calling foul on it.

Guess that means Sceptile ain't even in Ash's top 10... couldn't beat the unbeatable Darkrai in the Sinnoh League fairly. Waking up after being put to sleep, what is this? Also, Corphish cheated against Flannery too, how dare it wake up after being recalled despite having a type advantage, doesn't it know that's not allowed?

 

[KibaRL]

Guess that means Sceptile ain't even in Ash's top 10... couldn't beat the unbeatable Darkrai in the Sinnoh League fairly. Waking up after being put to sleep, what is this? Also, Corphish cheated against Flannery too, how dare it wake up after being recalled despite having a type advantage, doesn't it know that's not allowed?

Nobody cares about a regular Gym battle so bringing up Flannery is irrelevant, the stakes were not high back then when Ash was battling against a rookie Gym leader he could simply rematch the next ep if he lost. Yes Sceptile woke up, which proves Ash wanted the same to happen for Dragonite but it didn't work out.

 

[KibaLG8]

You're still going on about this? In that battle Ash still send out a sleeping Corphish before it magically woke up. Here Dragonite was in sleep against a Champion who would have KO'd it against whatever she sent it out against.

Ash wanted to take a gamble on Dragonite waking up that unfortunately for him didn't pay off. This isn't "making excuses" for the writers. Ash lost a Pokemon he was calling out to, and Cynthia took advantage of that.

What in the hell do you mean by “magically woke up”? Its not like the sleep status is permanent, in-game it takes at minimum 2 turns for a Pokemon to wake up. So if a Pokemon wakes up from Sleep its not because of magic.

Guess that means Sceptile ain't even in Ash's top 10... couldn't beat the unbeatable Darkrai in the Sinnoh League fairly. Waking up after being put to sleep, what is this? Also, Corphish cheated against Flannery too, how dare it wake up after being recalled despite having a type advantage, doesn't it know that's not allowed?

I wasn’t aware that the Sleep status was permanent like paralysis, burn, poison, & infatuation.

ATTENTION EVERYONE, IF A POKEMON FALLS ASLEEP ITS CONSIDERED A KO. What a load of crap.

 

[Sarenspect]

What in the hell do you mean by “magically woke up”? Its not like the sleep status is permanent, in-game it takes at minimum 2 turns for a Pokemon to wake up. So if a Pokemon wakes up from Sleep its not because of magic.

Well that's what I mean, sleep takes 2-4+ turns in the games. So there's nothing wrong with Dragonite not being able to wake up in time.

 

[Joltik-Kid]

Nobody cares about a regular Gym battle so bringing up Flannery is irrelevant, the stakes were not high back then when Ash was battling against a rookie Gym leader he could simply rematch the next ep if he lost. Yes Sceptile woke up, which proves Ash wanted the same to happen for Dragonite but it didn't work out.

News Flash, Ash's Pokémon are Champion level too... Ash switching Dragonite out and it waking up later is not and never will be an asspull. We're again confusing Sleep with Freeze. Freeze has this nasty side effect of possibly never thawing out. Sleep, naw, you can switch out knowing full well your bound to wake up.

 

[KibaRL]

News Flash, Ash's Pokémon are Champion level too... Ash switching Dragonite out and it waking up later is not and never will be an asspull. We're again confusing Sleep with Freeze. Freeze has this nasty side effect of possibly never thawing out. Sleep, naw, you can switch out knowing full well your bound to wake up.

And what does this have to do with Dragonite waking up or not? If it woke up, good, but since it didn't, it didn't. Ash calling out to it numerous times proves he expected it to wake up, so calling it a "champion level pokemon" and it still sleeping means nothing.

 

[GLTSRY]

The battle where Heracross had Sleep Talk and Sceptile proved that Sleep isn't permanent? That battle? You just recently said waking up is plot armor but you use this battle as a counter argument?

Lol when did I say that it’s plot armor? I literally said that people who are criticizing the decision now would criticize Dragonite immediately waking up as plot armor.

Who are these mysterious people your arguing with that believe Dragonite waking up after being recalled would be a writing mistake? Sounds more like your arguing with yourself given everyone on this forum is telling you Ash should have switched Dragonite out once it was apparent it was not gonna wake up in time.

Only a select few say that, and I’m starting to think that those people don’t know the personality of the main character at all

 

[Sham]

We're about to have another nine pages of this.

 

[Joltik-Kid]

Lol when did I say that it’s plot armor? I literally said that people who are criticizing the decision now would criticize Dragonite immediately waking up as plot armor.

Ash switches out Dragonite and uses her later, and she immediately wakes up -> “Grr dumb Ash is only reaching the finals because of plot armor”

No amount of backtracking is gonna save you from what you posted. Her immediately waking up if sent out again had Ash recalled her is literally no ****ing different than if she had woken up on her own like Sceptile did. If anything, it makes Ash look better for recalling her given the situation.

Only a select few say that, and I’m starting to think that those people don’t know the personality of the main character at all

The guy that recalled Buizel immediately at the start of his match against Paul because he started with Torterra... I can absolutely give you more examples than you can provide counters for that Ash doesn’t switch his Pokémon out at all.

And what does this have to do with Dragonite waking up or not? If it woke up, good, but since it didn't, it didn't. Ash calling out to it numerous times proves he expected it to wake up, so calling it a "champion level pokemon" and it still sleeping means nothing.

You just told me using the Flannery battle was worthless because she was a novice Gym Leader, but now using that Ash and Cynthia are the same level of trainer means nothing? Alright than, it means he should be picking his battles wisely... Dragonite not waking up? Recall it and send it out in a matchup where it's not gonna get KO'd immediately. This letting Dragonite get taken out by Dream Eater was more forced tension to make Cynthia look good rather than a legitimate lost.

 

[KibaRL]

you just told me using the Flannery battle was worthless because she was a novice Gym Leader, but now using that Ash and Cynthia are the same level of trainer means nothing? Alright than, it means he should be picking his battles wisely... Dragonite not waking up? Recall it and send it out in a matchup where it's not gonna get KO'd immediately. This letting Dragonite get taken out by Dream Eater was more forced tension to make Cynthia look good rather than a legitimate lost.

Your latter point means little, Ash would send out Dragonite (still asleep), and Gastrodon would drop a bunch of rocks on it. If Dragonite didn't wake up by the third Dream Eater, it would still be asleep for at least one more attack against whatever Cynthia's next pokemon was. Pokemon don't magically heal returning to their balls (not counting confusion). Also what's with not calling this a, "legitimate loss," of course it is?

 

[nuzamaki90]

Thanks for being one of the few reasonable people in this discussion, but it's probably best we moved on from this in order to avoid aggravating the fanboys.
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Don't hurt me y'all, this episode was a clear 10/10. Nothing to complain about.

Imagine pulling the victim card and then saying this. Weirdo behavior.

May Sirfetch’d lead this forum to virtue and prosperity. We desperately need it.

 

[Joltik-Kid]

Your latter point means little, Ash would send out Dragonite (still asleep), and Gastrodon would drop a bunch of rocks on it. If Dragonite didn't wake up by the third Dream Eater, it would still be asleep for at least one more attack against whatever Cynthia's next pokemon was. Pokemon don't magically heal returning to their balls (not counting confusion). Also what's with not calling this a, "legitimate loss," of course it is?

Forced tension by not recalling a Pokémon in a disadvantaged state is not a legitimate lost when you have the opportunity to keep the Pokémon active despite the disadvantage. Cynthia uses Mean Look to prevent Ash from switching, fine Ash has to now hope Dragonite wakes up. But that didn't happen. I don't get what suddenly changes if Dragonite wakes up now because Ash wants it to wake up vs it waking up later because Ash recalled it to save it for the chance it wakes up. What I do get however is it's much smarter to recall the sleeping Pokémon vs letting it get KO'd having done nothing.

 

[GLTSRY]

No amount of backtracking is gonna save you from what you posted. Her immediately waking up if sent out again had Ash recalled her is literally no ****ing different than if she had woken up on her own like Sceptile did. If anything, it makes Ash look better for recalling her given the situation.

What backtracking? Lmao I don’t think you understood what I said in that post

 

[Kazuniya]

-words-

Hey, in case you haven't noticed, I'm past this BS. So please fk off. Kindly leave me alone and go away.

 

[nuzamaki90]

Hey, in case you haven't noticed, I'm past this BS. So please fk off.

Again, imagine complaining about people not being reasonable and various other negative extremities and then saying stuff like this. It’s a kid’s cartoon, chill.