September 9th: PM2019 124 - The Semifinals III: Valor

[Master Pikachu 11]

Can't wait for the next episode so yall can stop arguing in circles about Dragonite

Exactly hopefully Dracovish actually makes up for it’s loss in the Steven battle

 

[Ignition]

Exactly hopefully Dracovish actually makes up for it’s loss in the Steven battle

Hoping his remaining 3 finish the fight well but especially looking forward to what Dracovish does. Sirfetch'd at least makes it to Garchomp which is good on its own and we know Lucario will finish the match so curious on what it'll do.

 

[Blue Saturday]

This episode is called, "Valor" and Negigaknight is shining in the preview.

I need Bravest Duck to whip out Brave Bird and go out in a blaze of glory in recoil damage.

 

[Otto's]

Also the fact that you’re calling Sceptile awakening and beating Darkrai hack writing while at the same time complaining about the way Dragonite lost WHILE ALSO SAYING nobody is saying Dragonite would wake up is the kind of contradiction salad that makes people go “so what in the world do you want?”

Complaining about Ash letting his opponent feed on his Dragonite's status without switching for a more appropiate foe other than the one that gets the more benefit out of it and saying that Ash and Sceptile‘s Nakama Power what’s what allowed them to break out of the Darkrai's Genjutsu isn’t mutually exclusive. Specially since at that point there was nothing suggesting that, if Dragonite were to wake up again, she wouldn’t fall again from Spiritomb's Hypnosis and return to stage one.

 

[nuzamaki90]

Complaining about Ash letting his opponent feed on his Dragonite's status without switching for a more appropiate foe other than the one that gets the more benefit out of it and saying that Ash and Sceptile‘s Nakama Power what’s what allowed them to break out of the Darkrai's Genjutsu isn’t mutually exclusive. Specially since at that point there was nothing suggesting that, if Dragonite were to wake up again, she wouldn’t fall again from Spiritomb's Hypnosis and return to stage one.

The same thing that happened to Dragonite is what happened to Heracross and Sceptile. If Dragonite woke up from Ash’s shouts and beat Spiritomb you’d be calling it “Nakama Power” as well. The only difference between Dragonite and Sceptile is that Sceptile woke up after one Dream Eater while Dragonite couldn’t awaken.

We can argue hypotheticals all we want, but just because Ash recalled Dragonite doesn’t mean it would all of a sudden wake up if sent out again. In all likelihood it would have suffered a beating from another one of Cynthia’s Pokémon. Again, no one who’s criticized the handling of Dragonite has offered their own preferable solution besides Dragonite simply being recalled and ignoring the fact that she’s still asleep. We can’t argue this in good faith otherwise.

 

[Blue Saturday]

The same thing that happened to Dragonite is what happened to Heracross and Sceptile. If Dragonite woke up from Ash’s shouts and beat Spiritomb you’d be calling it “Nakama Power” as well. The only difference between Dragonite and Sceptile is that Sceptile woke up after one Dream Eater while Dragonite couldn’t awaken.

We can argue hypotheticals all we want, but just because Ash recalled Dragonite doesn’t mean it would all of a sudden wake up if sent out again. In all likelihood it would have suffered a beating from another one of Cynthia’s Pokémon. Again, no one who’s criticized the handling of Dragonite has offered their own preferable solution besides Dragonite simply being recalled and ignoring the fact that she’s still asleep. We can’t argue this in good faith otherwise.

He sends Kairyu out later and Shirona Mega Evolves her Gablias and Swords Dance sets up a sweep

Or worse poor baby girl gets rocks dump on her head, gets Iron Headed and wrapped like Iris's Kairyu, or gets the full brunt of a fairy move from Togekiss while unconscious.

 

[Sham]

What’s that move that the duck is using on Garchomp? Brutal Swing? Did they let him learn Leaf Blade?

 

[nuzamaki90]

What’s that move that the duck is using on Garchomp? Brutal Swing? Did they let him learn Leaf Blade?

It’s green so it’s likely Leaf Blade from the training with Sceptile and Oshawott.

 

[Otto's]

If Dragonite woke up from Ash’s shouts and beat Spiritomb you’d be calling it “Nakama Power” as well

If it was like Sceptile vs Darkrai, of course I would.

But what fail to understand it's why are you saying (or pretend that I'm saying?) that it's either letting a free K.O or waking up a Pokémon by screaming really loud with your eyes closed.

We can argue hypotheticals all we want, but just because Ash recalled Dragonite doesn’t mean it would all of a sudden wake up if sent out again.

I never said she would. I said it was better matching any other of Cynthia's Pokémon who cannot capitalize on her sleeping status through Dream Eater, and that even if Dragonite was to wake up against Spiritom, there was nothing stopping her from falling for the same move again. Dragonite was just, objectively, a bad match against Spiritomb which Ash chose to stick up with despite having a better answer in Pikachu's Counter-Shield in the very same episode.

By letting Spiritomb recover on Dragonite's Health, he might as well had lead to Gengar vs Spiritomb not ending in a double KO or a defeat by Pikachu's Counter-Shield Thunderbolt; which would’ve avoided Pikachu's defeat and would have allowed Dragonite to have better chance of waking up against Pokémon like Roserade without necessarily favoring Cynthia.

 

[Applecorp]

Not people getting mad over Ash not having plot armour.

Ash just standing there while Dragonite got sucked off by Dream Eater was the equivalent of standing in the middle of a busy street during rush hour. It's not about plot armor or lack thereof, it's about Ash lacking common sense all of a sudden.

And don't give me that "Dragonite wouldn't wake up in his Pokeball" argument. Yeah like no **** he'd still be asleep in there but there would at least be a chance Dragonite could've woken up while on the field later on if sent back out later. But we'll never see that because Ash ****ed up.

 

[Evstike]

And don't give me that "Dragonite wouldn't wake up in his Pokeball" argument. Yeah like no **** he'd still be asleep in there but there would at least be a chance Dragonite could've woken up while on the field later on if sent back out later.

And if it didn't? Ash would look mad goofy sending out a sleeping Dragonite to get its cheeks clapped instantly. Literally nothing would change. People would still complain and Ash would look just as stupid.

But we'll never see that because Ash ****ed up.

He's still winning this lol

 

[Blue Saturday]

The point is keeping a sleeping Pokemon in combat is a perfectly viable thing Satoshi would do and has done in the past. Trying to paint this scene as incompetence or character incosistency is objectively incorrect. I believe when Lucario was paralyzed by Eleckible in the Denzi match Satoshi brought it back and then when it came back out it had shaken off the paralysis, Pokemon-amie/Refresh-affection boost style. Pikachu stayed in combat with a Burn for much of Shinji and Satoshi's first full battle instead of immediately being reeled back in.

Ain't that serious.

 

[KibaLG8]

The same thing that happened to Dragonite is what happened to Heracross and Sceptile. If Dragonite woke up from Ash’s shouts and beat Spiritomb you’d be calling it “Nakama Power” as well. The only difference between Dragonite and Sceptile is that Sceptile woke up after one Dream Eater while Dragonite couldn’t awaken.

We can argue hypotheticals all we want, but just because Ash recalled Dragonite doesn’t mean it would all of a sudden wake up if sent out again. In all likelihood it would have suffered a beating from another one of Cynthia’s Pokémon. Again, no one who’s criticized the handling of Dragonite has offered their own preferable solution besides Dragonite simply being recalled and ignoring the fact that she’s still asleep. We can’t argue this in good faith otherwise.

I mean it could have been recalled & be used against Roserade which I doubt would’ve taken down Dragonite while she was asleep. This is the same Ash that taught his Heracross Sleep Talk to combat Nando’s Kricketune & in turn, cause severe damage to Tobias’s Darkrai but chose to just watch Spiritomb Hypnosis & use Dream Eater 3 times on Dragonite & did nothing.

 

[Joltik-Kid]

The dumb thing Ash did with Dragonite was not immediately starting with Dragon Dance

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

The dumb thing Ash did with Dragonite was not immediately starting with Dragon Dance

Or block away Hypnosis with Hurricane.

 

[Sarenspect]

Or block away Hypnosis with Hurricane.

It was hit with Sucker Punch, it didn't really have much of a chance.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

It was hit with Sucker Punch, it didn't really have much of a chance.

I said block Hypnosis with Hurricane.

 

[Joltik-Kid]

Ash wanted it to wake up. Sending out a still sleeping Dragonite if he recalled it would look just as dumb. You know the writers would have just had Roserade/Togekiss/Gastrodon just drop one attack on it after and KO'd it.

Didn't stop Ash in the past against Flannery when Yawn put Corphish to sleep. He recalled it knowing full well if he lost it, his chances were sunk as all he had left were Pikachu and a crippled Treecko in that battle.

It was hit with Sucker Punch, it didn't really have much of a chance.

She still immediately fired off Draco Meteor after the Sucker Punch, which ultimately didn't have any lasting effect. Ash than had it rush in with Dragon Claw only to get put to sleep by Hypnosis... he should have started with Dragon Dance like I said.

 

[Kazuniya]

I wish people would stop making excuses for the writers.

 

[Sham]

I said block Hypnosis with Hurricane.

I agree or used a Pokémon that can block it.

I don’t have much investment in the “should Ash have called back his Pokémon” especially when people have been arguing this for 72 hours

But I was say this:

Even if recalling Ash’s Dragonite wouldn’t have done anything. There would be a good chance a better Pokemon could have countered (Pikachu) Hypnosis and win.

Whichever other opponent Dragonite would have faced nine times out of ten wouldn’t have known Dream Eater.

Even if putting Dragonite in his ball wouldn’t have woken him up, what’s the alternative? Give Spiritomb free nutrients?