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Serebii CCAT2

Skarm™

Light It Up
I think mienshao is the best choice so far but I honestly don't think we have found the perfect fit yet.

You are now my new favorite person.

Going to defend Heatran, as I think it is the most reliable contender for the third spot.

First of all, I agree that air balloon may sound stupid if we already have 2 ground immunities. However, AB isn't only useful for switching into a predicted ground attack. AB can also be very usefull to wall certain pokemon such as SubToxic Gliscor (who really threatens our team, stalling out Rotom-w's Hydro Pump) and Hippowdon. Other useful uses are beating Garchomp 1 vs 1, forcing Landorus to rely on Focus Miss to defeat it (only do this if anything else fails, of course), countering Dragonite/Salamence carrying Earthquake and of course its spike immunity. I can however see your point about AB being redundant. Though this is where leftovers/life orb come in. With leftovers, Heatran has a much easier time staying alive. The calcs below also show that. Life orb gives you a lot of power, as LO Earth power 2HKO's the most specially defensive Tyranitar. LO HP ice deals 67.44 - 79.4% to standard Latios and 48.62 - 57.14% to Latias, which means Heatran 2HKO's one of the best special sponges of the tier.

And to the person who said Heatran can't take outrages well (these are assuming lefties are held):
252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 96-113 (29.72 - 34.98%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Heatran Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Salamence: 452-532 (136.55 - 160.72%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 105-123 (32.5 - 38.08%) -- 1.46% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Heatran Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 168-198 (52.01 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, guaranteed OHKO if Multiscale is inactive.
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 156-185 (48.29 - 57.27%) -- 46.48% chance to 2HKO
See? So basically, even if Heatran switches into Dragonite on the DD AND Multiscale is still intact (which you shouldn't let it do anyway), Heatran still wins more than 50% of the time. Something Ferro or Forre can't say, as Dragonite often carries Fire Punch (+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 372-440 (105.68 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO).

In the end, I prefer the leftovers as it is your only form of recovery, and Heatran still has plenty of power. Heatran IMO is a more reliable check to dragons than Ferro, as Fire punch is more common on Dragonite than Earthquake. (moveset statistics from smogon: Fire Punch 49.930% and Earthquake 36.677%)

So, bring on your counterarguments :D
Heatran makes this team even more weak to Starmie and Thundurus-T, as well as the not-so-seen Abomasnow.
 

Sparkbeat

FLASH! AAAHHHAAA!
Earthquake maybe?

Heatran outspeeds easily, unless you see the extremely rare Scarfsnow.

And I'm really not seeing Mienshao working well. It dies in one shot to pretty much any priority move, it really can't even switch into any attack without losing over 50% of its health, which in turn can lead to very tricky situations, its outsped by many other scarfed fighting types in the tier (Heracross resists Terrakion and Keldeo's fighting moves making this less of a problem). It also makes Breloom even more annoying for us. And I don't even think it OHKO's Starmie with U-turn with rocks on the field. And as for Thundurus-T, he really isn't that hard to counter/check, so I feel it can be addressed later. It also can't set up an Agility on any member of our team.
 
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Skarm™

Light It Up
Heatran outspeeds easily, unless you see the extremely rare Scarfsnow.

And I'm really not seeing Mienshao working well. It dies in one shot to pretty much any priority move, it really can't even switch into any attack without losing over 50% of its health, which in turn can lead to very tricky situations, its outsped by many other scarfed fighting types in the tier (Heracross resists Terrakion and Keldeo's fighting moves making this less of a problem). It also makes Breloom even more annoying for us. And I don't even think it OHKO's Starmie with U-turn with rocks on the field. And as for Thundurus-T, he really isn't that hard to counter/check, so I feel it can be addressed later. It also can't set up an Agility on any member of our team.
Oh well I always use ScarfSnow, lol. And as for Thundy-T, it can KO those two before it sets up agility. But, okay then.
 

Klaus™

Banned
heatran is a good choice, though i think that ferrothorn or roserade is the better choice. heatran just fails against the rain-dominated metagame to really help. ferrothorn is probably better, as it counters dragons very effectively, and it sets up spikes, which i think is the most important thing right now. is spikes. i like roserade though, as it keeps offensive pressure, checks/counters scarf keldeo, and sets up spikes very easily.
 

Eaglehawk

Banned
Just because Potato (i think) mentioned it.

Skarmory @ Custap Berry
Trait: Sturdy
Nature: Jolly (+ Spe, - SpAtt)
252 Att / 4 Def/ 252 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Brave Bird
- Taunt

If you really hat having this team move toward Bulky Offense, this works kinda better. This thing almost always guarantees a layer of Spikes and Stealth Rock and has many set up opportunities.

I seriously don't know how to describe this guy so whoever suggested this please elaborate on this :/
 

Sparkbeat

FLASH! AAAHHHAAA!
Just because Potato (i think) mentioned it.

Skarmory @ Custap Berry
Trait: Sturdy
Nature: Jolly (+ Spe, - SpAtt)
252 Att / 4 Def/ 252 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Brave Bird
- Taunt

If you really hat having this team move toward Bulky Offense, this works kinda better. This thing almost always guarantees a layer of Spikes and Stealth Rock and has many set up opportunities.

I seriously don't know how to describe this guy so whoever suggested this please elaborate on this :/

Yeah, thats literally it lol.
 

Rising Star

Certified Boss
I'm still going to stand by Scizor because makes an excellent pairing with rotom-w and landorus-t, resisting both grass and ice. Its weaknesses are handled well by the other two, and in turn, scizor removes bulky psychics and sweepers like celebi and latios respectively. I think CedOmega is right, CB is the logical choice of item because it doesn't require a turn to set up and it can ohko the following threats with bullet punch: mamoswine, gengar, mienshao, terrakion, kyurem, weavile, abomasnow, tyranitar, etc. it also 2hkos most dragons except dragonite and can severely weaken most walls. It alsoSo i'd like to nominate CB scizor instead:

Scizor @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Pursuit/Quick Attack
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower

*However, I think occa berry should still be considered. It could be kind of gimmicky but i think in the current metagame, it's bound to get a few surprise kills.With occa berry, it's guaranteed to survive pretty much any hp fire outside of the sun and proceed to set up. But i haven't personally used it before, so I cant exactly say how effective it would be...
 

Eaglehawk

Banned

CedOmega

4570-7932-5223
Bump..... We came this far; may as well finish.
 

Manectrifier

AKA Treecko
Hi guys I'm going to try out the masuda method on my favourite pokemon so I need a dieno, zwellios or hydreigon with good ivs that isn't australian, I have good shineys up for trade in return or an awesome australian hydreigon :) plz help pm me

Please post this in the trading thread. this isn't the place to ask such things.

@CosmicPotato I think we have enough nominations now, and the discussion died down a bit. I think we should start voting.
 

McDanger

Well-Known Member
Please post this in the trading thread. this isn't the place to ask such things.

@CosmicPotato I think we have enough nominations now, and the discussion died down a bit. I think we should start voting.

coming in with a last minute nomination

Terrakion@focus sash
jolly
4hp/252 attack/252speed
-close combat
-stone edge
-stealth rocks
-taunt/swords dance

Every offensive team needs them hazards and while skarmory is good at getting up both rocks and spikes, it almost always mandates a spin blocker, which can sometimes take away from the offensive tempo of a team (cause lets face it gengar is the only good offensive spin blocker). Terrakion on the other hand only brings rocks which is a key to helping offensive teams check threats such as dragonite, scarfed salamence, agility thunderus, and volcarona. Terrakion has a further edge over skarmory in the way that he puts pressure on the opponent from turn 1, and his high speed lets him function as a solid taunter, stopping most hazard leads like garchomp and skarmory. The focus sash makes sure rocks get up or if you keep hazards off the field allows him to revenge faster threats like +1 dragonite, salamence, volcarona, thunderus, etc.
He further supports the team as its asking kyurem and kyurem b to destroy it, rotom being an easy set up bait and landorus in fear off being OHKOed, something skarmory cant do (as it dies) and heatran struggles with, in fear of earth power. Terrakion also checks hail and sand, OHKOing both ttar and snow, scares off ninetales, and can cripple politoed. Terrakion also gives us some muscle outside of landorus as well as a way to weaken steels and bait in some stuff that landorus t can set up on like jirachi.
 
coming in with a last minute nomination

Terrakion@focus sash
jolly
4hp/252 attack/252speed
-close combat
-stone edge
-stealth rocks
-taunt/swords dance

Every offensive team needs them hazards and while skarmory is good at getting up both rocks and spikes, it almost always mandates a spin blocker, which can sometimes take away from the offensive tempo of a team (cause lets face it gengar is the only good offensive spin blocker). Terrakion on the other hand only brings rocks which is a key to helping offensive teams check threats such as dragonite, scarfed salamence, agility thunderus, and volcarona. Terrakion has a further edge over skarmory in the way that he puts pressure on the opponent from turn 1, and his high speed lets him function as a solid taunter, stopping most hazard leads like garchomp and skarmory. The focus sash makes sure rocks get up or if you keep hazards off the field allows him to revenge faster threats like +1 dragonite, salamence, volcarona, thunderus, etc.
He further supports the team as its asking kyurem and kyurem b to destroy it, rotom being an easy set up bait and landorus in fear off being OHKOed, something skarmory cant do (as it dies) and heatran struggles with, in fear of earth power. Terrakion also checks hail and sand, OHKOing both ttar and snow, scares off ninetales, and can cripple politoed. Terrakion also gives us some muscle outside of landorus as well as a way to weaken steels and bait in some stuff that landorus t can set up on like jirachi.

Voting Terrakion because it is the only remotely intelligent suggestion so far.
 

Sparkbeat

FLASH! AAAHHHAAA!
coming in with a last minute nomination

Terrakion@focus sash
jolly
4hp/252 attack/252speed
-close combat
-stone edge
-stealth rocks
-taunt/swords dance

Every offensive team needs them hazards and while skarmory is good at getting up both rocks and spikes, it almost always mandates a spin blocker, which can sometimes take away from the offensive tempo of a team (cause lets face it gengar is the only good offensive spin blocker). Terrakion on the other hand only brings rocks which is a key to helping offensive teams check threats such as dragonite, scarfed salamence, agility thunderus, and volcarona. Terrakion has a further edge over skarmory in the way that he puts pressure on the opponent from turn 1, and his high speed lets him function as a solid taunter, stopping most hazard leads like garchomp and skarmory. The focus sash makes sure rocks get up or if you keep hazards off the field allows him to revenge faster threats like +1 dragonite, salamence, volcarona, thunderus, etc.
He further supports the team as its asking kyurem and kyurem b to destroy it, rotom being an easy set up bait and landorus in fear off being OHKOed, something skarmory cant do (as it dies) and heatran struggles with, in fear of earth power. Terrakion also checks hail and sand, OHKOing both ttar and snow, scares off ninetales, and can cripple politoed. Terrakion also gives us some muscle outside of landorus as well as a way to weaken steels and bait in some stuff that landorus t can set up on like jirachi.

I'll probably be voting this too, since I have no idea what the hell I was thinking when I made my nom.
 

Manectrifier

AKA Treecko
coming in with a last minute nomination

Terrakion@focus sash
jolly
4hp/252 attack/252speed
-close combat
-stone edge
-stealth rocks
-taunt/swords dance

Every offensive team needs them hazards and while skarmory is good at getting up both rocks and spikes, it almost always mandates a spin blocker, which can sometimes take away from the offensive tempo of a team (cause lets face it gengar is the only good offensive spin blocker). Terrakion on the other hand only brings rocks which is a key to helping offensive teams check threats such as dragonite, scarfed salamence, agility thunderus, and volcarona. Terrakion has a further edge over skarmory in the way that he puts pressure on the opponent from turn 1, and his high speed lets him function as a solid taunter, stopping most hazard leads like garchomp and skarmory. The focus sash makes sure rocks get up or if you keep hazards off the field allows him to revenge faster threats like +1 dragonite, salamence, volcarona, thunderus, etc.
He further supports the team as its asking kyurem and kyurem b to destroy it, rotom being an easy set up bait and landorus in fear off being OHKOed, something skarmory cant do (as it dies) and heatran struggles with, in fear of earth power. Terrakion also checks hail and sand, OHKOing both ttar and snow, scares off ninetales, and can cripple politoed. Terrakion also gives us some muscle outside of landorus as well as a way to weaken steels and bait in some stuff that landorus t can set up on like jirachi.

I like this. I've used this thing before and the only thing I didn't like about it was that it died pretty quickly. Good nom, though.
 

Barbeller

Scatter Brained
Okay, assuming we go for Sash Lead Terrakion, which I assume we will because it is the suggestion that makes most sense for this team and a lot of people are strongly supporting it, we will promptly become extremely weak to Hydro Pump spam (Rotom can only take like, one Hydro Pump) and we will also be relatively weak to bulky grasses, mainly Celebi. Just something to think of when you provide your suggestions for the next stage.
 

Rising Star

Certified Boss
Well if you're going to go with a dedicated lead, then why not go with something like Aerodactyl. It's pretty underrated in my opinion, as it's faster than terrakion and can also put offensive pressure. It accomplishes the same goal as sash terrak, and it has a more offensively diverse movepool, sporting fire blast, dragon claw, aerial ace, ice fang... etc.

Garchomp leads, which are fairly common, also completely counter terrakion leads, threatening with EQ and killing off terrakion with rough skin. Not to mention, breloom would now become an even bigger threat to this team. Terrakion's not a terrible choice, but really I think we can do better.
 
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