Serebii Paranormal & Crypto-zoological Society

[Darato]

A contest could be fun, even more so changing it up a bit each time.

L.F.D.

 

[Treecko's Awesomeness]

I agree with the every-other-month idea. The contests are fun, and they boost the club's activity.

As for the bee article, I think that you might be correct there, but it would take quite a few hornets to kill a horse.

 

[VampirateMace]

Okay, so our current schedule would give us contests in:
February - April - June - August - October - December

With judging and/or relaxation in:
January - March - May - July - September - November

Any objections or concerns?

I had initially planned on doing scary paranormal/mythological story contests in October, but since I’m running a story contest this August, does anyone have any other ideas for a scary (Halloween/Dead-of-the-Dead) type contest? It could be art, costume, some sort of game or quiz…

I haven’t found much paranormal news past few days, I think it’s because 4th of July and possible ‘God Particle’ stuff is a huge news focus right now.

Edit: Unless the horse happen to be allergic, in which case one sting might even have done the trick.

 

[greatguy]

Hey, sorry I've been inactive. I'm currently on a vacation, and I've been busy.

I probably won't enter many contests if we do that every-other month thing, but I will try to get something written for the short-story contest. If we do that, of course.

A thought came to me as I was navigating through sweaty hordes (gaggles?) of tourists: why did
the concept of an embodiment of death manifest in so many cultures? There's the Grim Reaper, Shinigami, and a few more that I forgot the names of.

I'm of the opinion that humans tend to personify inanimate objects and concepts, like in various mytholigies. For instance, in classical mythology, Gaea or Terra was the earth itself, but it could still order her sons to cut up their father.

 

[Grassmaster411]

I think the every month activity would be a good idea. It would influence more people to join/post and promote more disscussion.

A thought came to me as I was navigating through sweaty hordes (gaggles?) of tourists: why did
the concept of an embodiment of death manifest in so many cultures? There's the Grim Reaper, Shinigami, and a few more that I forgot the names of.

Probably because death is such a huge part of human existance. We all die eventually, and when people don't know why, they can blame or create something for it. It then gives them a feeling of "well, their dead, but there was nothing I could do about it.". If/when we decipher the languages of elephants, apes, whales, dolphins, hippos, and other animals that mourn, we will probably discover that they also have embodiments of death.

On an unrelated subject, to try and make up for my inactivity, I have put together a list of animals that were cryptids until discovered. While I think most cryptids, like bigfoot and the loch ness monster are hoaxes, many species can be found if local myths are closely examined. Some of the animals here, to primative people, could even inspire myths like the Kraken, Yeti, and Dragons.

Mountain Gorilla
Komodo Dragon and other large monitors
Giant Squid
Giant Panda
Malayan Tapir
Okapi
African Peafowl
Oarfish
Asian Rhinos
Giant Anacondas and Pythons
Spot-bellied Eagle Owl
Tree and Land dwelling Kangaroos
Platypus

 

[VampirateMace]

I think both your explanations are legitimate. Humans like to believe that everything has a cause, and they like to seek out familiar patterns (these two tendencies may be related if you think about it), particularly faces in things that don’t actually have faces. (Interestingly enough, a study of sheep found that they could recognize photos of individual sheep when given a treat if they picked the right one.) So, anyways, it’s only natural that something as primal and intrigue to life as death, should have a face.

Great list, I love the Platypus story, how European explorers would send specimens home and everyone thought it was hoax until they received a live one.

 

[greatguy]

Well, I don't think most animals have a really complex language, and they probably don't think about death too often, but other than that your theory makes sense.

Vampirate, are you saying sheep don't have faces?

 

[VampirateMace]

Lol... no, I was commenting on the fact that sheep could also recognize individual faces.

I think many higher animals do have a concept of death. Elephants in zoos for example have been found go into extended periods of mourning (moping and not eating much) if they are not allowed to handle the remains of a pack member who has died before it's removed from the enclosure.

 

[Grassmaster411]

I think many higher animals do have a concept of death. Elephants in zoos for example have been found go into extended periods of mourning (moping and not eating much) if they are not allowed to handle the remains of a pack member who has died before it's removed from the enclosure.

Exactly. And Elephants aren't the only ones. There was an entire National Geographic Special about hippos, in which they showed possible mourning behavior. (Not sure that hippos mourn though, they do commit cannibalism and infanticide). Chimpanzees have been seen to mourn, but they also have a habit of occasional cannibalism. A closer analogy to elephant mourning is the gorilla. I've seen mothers cary the body of their young for weeks, even when it starts to rot.

Cetaceans (dolphins and whales) and elephants both show signs of language. The was even a 60 minutes special called "The secret language of elephants."

 

[VampirateMace]

Heck, my cats show signs of language. They've got several different meows/sounds:
Where are you?
This needs attention!
You need to pet me!
Do you see that bird? (this is a funny clicking sound)
I'm pleased
I'm surprised!
I'm displeased
I'm very displeased!
That hurts!
Bless you (seriously, one of our cats does a funny little double meow when someone sneezes)

But I'm not sure this falls under 'complex language' as greatguy put it. Speaking of cats, cat and dogs can supposedly see ghosts. Of course we know that cats are hunters and more focused on movement than we are, but dogs, who can see at least parcial color are scavangers like us, so there's not much reason to assume their vision would be better, actually, I think it's pretty much been proven not to be.

 

[Grassmaster411]

But I'm not sure this falls under 'complex language' as greatguy put it. Speaking of cats, cat and dogs can supposedly see ghosts. Of course we know that cats are hunters and more focused on movement than we are, but dogs, who can see at least parcial color are scavangers like us, so there's not much reason to assume their vision would be better, actually, I think it's pretty much been proven not to be.

I don't think most animals "see" ghosts. If ghosts exist, animals most likely sense them with whatever sense is greatest in the animals. Example: Cats have excellent vision, especially at night, so they would most likely see a ghost at night. Dogs, as you said, have poor vision (compared to humans) but have incredible hearing and smell. Perhaps they can detect ghosts with these stronger senses. Humans, and even advanced human equipment, can't compare with raw animal abilities.

I would love to see an experiment where several animals are put in a haunted, ghost inhabitied area, and see how they react. Not including animals that we have seen react to these kinds of phenomenom, like dogs, cats, and horses. These animals would do well, (or poorly) depending on which sense detects ghosts the best.

Turkey Vulture: Best sense of smell in animal kingdom

Bats: echolocation

Birds of prey: Best vision in animal kingdom

Elephants: Decent eyesight, extreme hearing and smelling abilities. + great intelligence

Rhino: Poor eyesight, excellent hearing

Sharks: electromagnetic sensory

Dolphins and whales: echolocation + extreme intelligence

Rattlesnake: Heat sensory.

Ladybug: weather prediction and temperature sensing

Owls: Best hearing.

Archerfish: Doudle lensed vision

Or maybe animals are just more tuned into their environment and sublte changes that a ghost would make. Its not like someone could actually put this test together. Imagine a dolphin tank in a haunted house.

 

[Electricbluewolf]

Lol... no, I was commenting on the fact that sheep could also recognize individual faces.

I think many higher animals do have a concept of death. Elephants in zoos for example have been found go into extended periods of mourning (moping and not eating much) if they are not allowed to handle the remains of a pack member who has died before it's removed from the enclosure.

There's been plenty of evidence that animals mourn or have a concept of death. I was reading about a two stray dogs, one got hit by a car and was going to die and the other one stayed at it's side until is did pass away. It stayed there for about 3 hours before authorities removed the body, and even then it followed them. Even though, when people die, they give of a chemical and that's apparently what dogs/cats sense, how did the dog know his pal was going to die. An even if they don't, I would think that people should give more credit to animals if they know something is dying and they stay with it, as it shows a much more complex emotional structure in animals.

I don't think most animals "see" ghosts. If ghosts exist, animals most likely sense them with whatever sense is greatest in the animals. Example: Cats have excellent vision, especially at night, so they would most likely see a ghost at night. Dogs, as you said, have poor vision (compared to humans) but have incredible hearing and smell. Perhaps they can detect ghosts with these stronger senses. Humans, and even advanced human equipment, can't compare with raw animal abilities.

Or maybe animals are just more tuned into their environment and sublte changes that a ghost would make. Its not like someone could actually put this test together. Imagine a dolphin tank in a haunted house.

Horse are pretty phenomenal at picking up "ghost readings". As they're flight animals they're naturally aware of their environment and get panicky immediately and because of that have a great "sense" of things. The stables I used to work for had 2 horses that would watch something move around, but it was apparently no threat as they were calm. They then got a new horse but it refused to go anywhere near whatever the other horses were staring at, and would rear and buck if forced to. I certainly think as animals have a more clearer connections to raw emotions perhaps they can hear/see/smell things we cannot.

 

[greatguy]

I didn't mean animals didn't know what death is- my dog knows that (her brother died last year). I meant they don't philosophize over it.

Vampirate, no, I don't call that "complex language." -__- Again, my dog can do something like that, though she doesn't bark or growl unless wrestling or warning other dogs to stay away. She mostly uses body posture and facial expressions to communicate.

Grassmaster, how is one to find a real haunted area? And if one were to find an alleged haunted area, how would one go about proving that it's real?

 

[Grassmaster411]

@GreatGuy. I have no idea. I don't even really believe in ghosts. But if they were to be proven to exist, I would like to see a test like this one tried.

 

[greatguy]

There's been plenty of evidence that animals mourn or have a concept of death. I was reading about a two stray dogs, one got hit by a car and was going to die and the other one stayed at it's side until is did pass away. It stayed there for about 3 hours before authorities removed the body, and even then it followed them. Even though, when people die, they give of a chemical and that's apparently what dogs/cats sense, how did the dog know his pal was going to die. An even if they don't, I would think that people should give more credit to animals if they know something is dying and they stay with it, as it shows a much more complex emotional structure in animals.



Horse are pretty phenomenal at picking up "ghost readings". As they're flight animals they're naturally aware of their environment and get panicky immediately and because of that have a great "sense" of things. The stables I used to work for had 2 horses that would watch something move around, but it was apparently no threat as they were calm. They then got a new horse but it refused to go anywhere near whatever the other horses were staring at, and would rear and buck if forced to. I certainly think as animals have a more clearer connections to raw emotions perhaps they can hear/see/smell things we cannot.

Not sure about horses, but I know some animals can. It's been proven-elephants can send and hear infrasonic sounds, and canids are famous for their sense of smell. There was an experiment done where a dog had to find someone. The person got in a car, drove away at high speed, and went to the beach and stayed near the water. The dog kept his scent while going to the beach, going over a fallen hot dog stand, and being around all the other people at the beach. He found him very soon.

@GreatGuy. I have no idea. I don't even really believe in ghosts. But if they were to be proven to exist, I would like to see a test like this one tried.

Oh. What do you predict the results would be?

 

[VampirateMace]

No way around it, animals do have some amazing abilities.

It think the only way to conduct Grassmaster’s experiment would be to presume that any site generally accepted by professional paranormal investigators as haunted, could be used. As for sharks and dolphins, perhaps enclosing them around/in supposedly haunted ships, shipwrecks, or natural sites would yield some interesting result?

Grassmaster also suggested having activity every month. We could compile a biannual digital magazine (both as a website, and downloadable PDF and/or eReader files) in the months where we aren‘t doing contests:
January - March - May - July - September - November

I would think releasing it in late January (the start of the year) and late July (about halfway through the year) would be good times. And of course to keep it interesting, I’d have the contributions (articles, tutorials, images, stories, poems, reviews, etc…) PMed to me (or whoever was going to compile it), so as not to ruin the surprise for the other members. We could also feature the contest results on the back page.

Also, does anyone have a preference on the October contest type, since August is a story contest? Don’t let me pick for you if there’s something you think would be more fun.

 

[Grassmaster411]

Shipwrecks. Good idea. And here I was thinking of calling in Seaworld. lol.

I think the rhino would do considerably well. Because we can't see ghosts, not even a trace of them, sight may not be important. The rhinoceras has extremely good hearing and smell. What it would do if it sensed a ghost, however, is unpredictable. Lets just say I think that whoever conducts this experiment should have good insurance. Rhinos are very cautious animals, and if they think they are in danger, they will not hesitate to destroy everything around them. (Not to mention if ghosts can posses animals.)

The other animals I think would do well is the rattlesnake. Rattlesnakes have a built in heat sensing system. Ghosts are often showed to be cooler or hotter than the air around it. Because rattlesnakes and other pit vipers can sense the heat around them, it might be able to see a ghost with this ability.

Not sure what I think about the online magazine. I wouldn't have time to help with it alot, and I have trouble using those kinds of systems.

For the October contest, I have an idea. What about a short script/written trailer for a horror/monster/paranormal movie? We could try and make up our own movie ideas.

 

[VampirateMace]

By 'having trouble with those sorts of systems', are you refering to the PMing of articles and so forth to an common editor?

I'm not sure about the script idea, the idea of changing it was to do something other than story writing, and a script is basically a special story format.

 

[greatguy]

I'm fine with the magazine idea, but I don't have a lot of free time, except at night. I could probably manage to get an article or two written if it's just twice every year.

I could also write short stories or something involving ghosts or whatever. I'm not up to anything as good as Forsaken or [/I]The Thinking Man's Guide to Destroying the World,[/I] but I'm not terrible. As long as it's not poetry, I should be able to write a mediocre story.

Grassmaster, if a web-magazine ever gets started, would you do something about your theory of animals sensing ghosts?

 

[VampirateMace]

The Thinking Man's Guide to Destroying the World hun? Sounds intresting... but yeah, whatever level your writing is at, I could find a place for it.

Also, we should get someone to make a quiz/test/puzzle for each issue (assuming enough members are intrested in making it).

BTW, I've just moved several of you onto the Senior Member list, so Congrats and Stuff.