Serious question: What do people expect out of Ash's Johto Pokemon?

[CyberCubed]

Since they are coming back for the Sinnoh league, what are people expecting out of them?

What did people like about Ash's Johto team? Heracross and Donphan was good, but as said they count more as reserves, and Donphan was on Ash's team during AG.

So excluding Heracross who was a short-lived reserve, and Donphan who on Ash's team during AG... what was good about the Johto starters/Noctowl? Their battles weren't anywhere near as good as the Kanto/Hoenn/Sinnoh teams. Their personalities, at least IMO, weren't as interesting either.


- Bayleef. Personality wise it was the most memorable, but compare it to Bulbasaur, Sceptile and Torterra...and Bayleef really has nothing much going for it. Its personality is cute though.

- Cyndaquil...had potential but the writing of Johto screwed it over. Chimchar was Cyndaquil DONE RIGHT. Ash has a fully evolved Charizard and Infernape, as well as Torkoal, I really can't see what Cynda can bring to the table.

- Totodile...quite possibly one of Ash's weakest pokemon in the whole show. Comparing it to Squirtle, Corphish, Buizel, and even Kingler...it really has nothing going for it. Personality wise it was OK, if one-dimensional. Corphish was Totodile DONE RIGHT.

- Noctowl...again one of Ash's weakest Pokemon. Its only use is fighting against ghost Pokemon. Its use could be its psychic abilities displayed, something most of Johto failed to do.


What do people expect? Ash's Johto team was clearly Ash's least popular team in the series, and everyone knows it. Back when Johto was airing, Bulbasaur/Squirtle/Charizard overshadowed them and the Johto team felt like the "Tracey" of Ash's lineup. The writers wouldn't even give them a goodbye sequence at the end of the arc.

What do people expect?

 

[Ash6K]

Well I expect possibly new moves, a couple of battles in the league, a reunion with Ash, as well as them being shown in HD.

There's also a slight possibility of an evo somewhere there but it's a question mark for me.

People don't need to like a pokemon because of their battle record or strength or power or whatever. Maybe people like them out of nostalgia. I mentioned before that the games could've been an influence because of the nostalgia factor of not only playing with these pokemon, but also watching them on screen at the same time.

There's the underdog factor that people like as well as the redemption factor where the Johto team could prove to be stronger; a solution for any strength/developmental issues that have been addressed.

Then there's people that like to see them for the sake of liking reunions and how fun they can be. That's part of my reasons for being excited to see them.

And maybe there are people that like their personalities. You said it yourself, "IMO". You have your opinion, others have theirs. You can't make the whole personalities thing a valid argument when you're asking for others' opinion of why they like the Johto team or what do they expect out of them.

 

[Rampardo]

Cybercubed, you forgot to put your flame shield on. People will bash you for being so repetitive about this.

...but I agree with you. Ash's johto team is ridiculous in comparison to the rest of his arsenal. His Johto team is - underdeveloped, as in unevolved and lacks good movesets.

I dont get why people are so adamant about the johto guys. Omg johto yesss they need redemption!!!!1111 Yes, they need redemption. But NOT in the Sinnoh league. What they need is to go with him next saga and develop from there (even though that wont happen lol).

If the writers make them come back here and win lots of battles I will just consider it cheap and Deus Ex Machina, so I hope they get as little battle screentime as possible.

 

[d4rk_tailed]

Lol, moan moan moan I expect a marginalised showing involving some spectacular victories to highlight the sheer owning-ness of Cynda, Toto, Bay and Noctowl, whilst the Sinnoh team are left to take the reins later on.

Cyndaquil was perfect! Hinoarashi>Goukazaru anyday! At least Cyndaquil didnt have to look bad when it lost, Infernape on the other hand......facing its doppelganger against Flint.....ouch, bad times for the animé, bad times. Maybe Bayleef and Totodile, Noctowl especially were not portrayed as the gods that, say Sceptile, Charizard or Swellow were, but they filled in any gaps left by the Kanto tema during Johto adequately.

 

[Ash6K]

Cybercubed, you forgot to put your flame shield on. People will bash you for being so repetitive about this.

...but I agree with you. Ash's johto team is ridiculous in comparison to the rest of his arsenal. His Johto team is - underdeveloped, as in unevolved and lacks good movesets.

I dont get why people are so adamant about the johto guys. Omg johto yesss they need redemption!!!!1111 Yes, they need redemption. But NOT in the Sinnoh league. What they need is to go with him next saga and develop from there (even though that wont happen lol).

If the writers make them come back here and win lots of battles I will just consider it cheap and Deus Ex Machina, so I hope they get as little battle screentime as possible.

But they're coming from Oak's. Usually a pokemon from Oak's will come back stronger than before. Torkoal, weakest Hoenn pokemon. Comes back and almost beats a legendary. It didn't just lose, they were neck and neck and it just so happened Registeel got the final blow. We clearly saw that Registeel was on its knees and one hit from Torkoal could've finished it.

Then there's Heracross. Wasn't in a lot of the battles in Johto. It gets Oak'd, comes back and was able to beat a Magmar, a pokemon with a type advantage.

And of course there's also Donphan. As a Phanpy, it never won a gym battle and only won one battle against a Slugma. Not too impressive. Comes back and evolves to a Donphan and was able to take out a Frontier Brain's signature pokemon as well as hold its own against inherently strong pokemon like Aggron and Charizard (it got hit a lot of times by Aggron, especially with Water Pulse yet it still stood standing to deliver the final Hyper Beam to send TR blasting off).

Bottom line, Oak'd pokemon come back stronger so it wouldn't surprise me if the Johto team also came back stronger. So if the Johto team does great in some Sinnoh League battles, it wouldn't be DEM. It would be because they trained at Oak's like all of Ash's other pokemon.

 

[Pepsi_Plunge]

Cyber im going to try to be fair and give you a honest answer.

First not couting Shinno team, Johto team was my favourite but yes the writing of that region sucked still i loved them and like i said in many other topics, Totodile/Cyndaquil are my favourite starters of all the starters Ash had.

Anyway has for what i expect.

Cyndaquil yup, Chimchar is Cyndaquil done right you are right, i told you in the other thread that i compare Cyndaquil a lot to Chimchar and i believe even in terms of strength he was as strong the monkey unevolved and even unvevolved Chimchar would be really strong foe at the league, anyway as i also said in the other topic Oak has been proved to be like the ingame day care in the pokemon anime world, pokemon there have come always stronger so yeah i predict him to be atleast on Monferno level of strength right now.

Bayleef it was pretty strong also, dont really have much to add to it i expect her to have some new attacks and being stronger, same Oak reason applys to her.

Totodile well it was never fantastic in terms of battles mostly were comic wins or all of them even, i expect some new moves and him being stronger also and once again i give you props for saying Corpish was Totidle done right, yup the funny water pokemon that still owned, thats how Totodile should have been portrayed, i expect him to be alot better and i know the writers will make him better.

Noctowl, well my biggest doubt unlike Totodile it didnte even show much potential but like Totodile if the writers bring him back it wont be to humiliate it so he should have some new attacks that learned at Oak, maybe Swellow showed him how to own and we get a golden Pikaowl instead of a golden Pikallow this time(im joking).

Well Donphan doesnt have much to prove he was awesome in the Battle Frontier so i dont think his value would be put in question.

And Heracross isnt in the opening if i remember well but he was always seen as somewhat of a very powerfull pokemon that Ash could always call to help him.


Well this is my serious and honest answer Cyber and i wont be bothered to discuss this anymore .

 

[Dax]

Simple answer: Development and screentime, something they lacked. They won't be developed in terms of personality because I'm sure they won't have time but getting some battles and wins will increase their strength. They need it, the others don't.

 

[ijea4444]

I think that its time Bayleef has (what we considered) mountains of personality. But like you said with the addition of other grass types in comparison Bayleef's personality seems very lacking. I think that their going to go off that feeling that us viewers of Bayleef had. Since at the time it seemed like a lot of personality, giving her more personality now would compensate. At least I hope >.>


Going off what I was saying earlier, I expect them to be treated almost as Kanto starters version 2.0,as in, "hey remember these pokemon, their really old.By logic older=maturer= stronger!" Which although I know fans usually critisize, imo is the best way to go by to keep as much viewers pleased(especially young ones that really don't care).

Even some of the worst things that the writers have done(gliscor/ambipom) were still incredibly smart decisions. I personally would have liked it w/no releases but their releases were necessary to keep the long saga fresh and to give room to new pokemon.

Essentially, I'm confident that no matter what happens its going to be good.

 

[V Faction]

Good times in Sinnoh. Who could ask more from Ash's Pokemon?

 

[The Benmeister]

Well I assume all four of them have turned to recreational drugs by this point, and if they haven't, then they probably should.

I expect nothing. That way if something actually happens I won't be disappointed.

 

[Juputoru]

The same thing I expect from the rest of his non-active Pokemon that aren't big stars like Sceptile and Snorlax: Nothing.

To be more specific about the kind of nothing I expect:
Totodile: Is brought back for one episode where Ash enters it in a dance competition before ignoring it for another few hundred episodes. It finally evolves into Croconaw sometime in the 2030s.
Cyndaquil: Has to be euthanized after it develops pyromaniac tendencies, killing 10 people, injuring 40 more, and causing thousands of dollars in property damage. All of which could have been avoided if Oak had remembered to check up on it once in a while and make sure it wasn't getting too bored.
Noctowl: Starts raking in the dough once it realizes it can use its psychic powers for gambling purposes, but gets a long jail sentence once the local Jenny finds out.
Heracross: Has to be moved out of Oak's lab once Bulbasaur finally convinces a judge to hand down a restraining order.
Donphan: Basks in the sweet knowledge that it actually managed to do something in a BF once, which means that Ash might actually use it again someday.



To be serious...I honestly expect nothing from Ash's non-star Pokemon other than the occassional cameo. Unless they start being consistant about BFs/other sorts of filler arcs, there's really no time for Ash to show off his old Pokemon without shafting new Pokemon. This leaves his Johto team in the unfortunate position of possibly never doing anything noteworthy, but by now I've grown to accept that.

 

[Thriller]

Redemption, Cyber. REDEMPTION.

 

[SUPERSTARZZ]

- The Sinnoh League is the stage for Ash's Sinnoh team. We don't need Johto Pokemon here.

 

[SUPERSTARZZ]

- The Sinnoh League is the stage for Ash's Sinnoh team. We don't need Johto Pokemon here.

 

[KGB13]

- The Sinnoh League is the stage for Ash's Sinnoh team. We don't need Johto Pokemon here.

Although I like Ash's Johto team and want to see them again, I have to agree with you here.

But what I expect from them is some good matches, some new moves, and possibly some evolutions. *Crosses fingers for Croconaw*

 

[Profesco]

I expect them to enjoy being in action again. We're getting some old friends back on screen. What's to complain? It's highly unlikely they'll be pulled back into battles just to get completely wiped out, reinforcing the idea that they're hideously useless. They're probably going to have a decent showing and make fans who like them happy.

Basically, what V Faction said: good times.

 

[thunderblade12]

I expect them to pull huge amounts of power out of their bunghole =)

No seriously. Look at Torkoal, Ash's Kanto pokemon, Snorlax, Heracross, Kingler, and basically every other pokemon Ash left behind. They became powerhouses after leaving his side. Even Misty became a kick-*** gym leader with a Gyarados and May evolved like 4 pokemon. Dawn and Ash's Sinnoh team will also take huge amounts of steroids when they leave the main cast.

I can't wait to see Brock get a cameo if he ever leaves the show.

 

[HoennMaster]

I'm looking forward to seeing them. His Pokémon always seem to get more powerful when they leave Ash, and I wouldn't count them out. We already know Bayleef is no push over.

- The Sinnoh League is the stage for Ash's Sinnoh team. We don't need Johto Pokemon here.

And yet the Johto Pokémon had there screentime stolen by the Kanto Pokémon. As long as the league has enough time to dedicate time to both its fine.

 

[Ash-kid]

I expect that Noctowl, Totodile, Donphan and Cyndaquil will get a few battles and wins, nothing more. Give them 2-3 battles each one in the first rounds (whether it is double battle or 3 vs 3) and it's fine. I just don't want to see them vs Barry/Paul, for example, there I hope Ash will use only his Sinnoh team.

Maybe Donphan already was in the Johto league as a Phanpy, but I wouldn't mind to see it again, this time as a Donphan.

 

[NES]

I expect Totodile and Cyndaquil to evolve, at least one stage each one.