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Serious question: What do people expect out of Ash's Johto Pokemon?

Discussion in 'Animé Spoilers' started by CyberCubed, May 25, 2010.

  1. STICKTOPIA

    STICKTOPIA Well-Known Member

    It was his Sinnoh team that got him the badges.

    Another Empoleon vs Gible? I would like to see Infernape vs Empoleon since they didn't finish the last battle.
     
  2. KingMinun

    KingMinun Dawn/Sinnoh Fan!

    Well I guess this Cyndaquil evolution might shut up Cyber and stop his complaining about one of the Johto Starters.
     
  3. Umbilical Noose

    Umbilical Noose Bonzo Nut

    This won't stop his usual whining.

    Now Quilava can prove to be a powerhouse in the league and same can be expected from Bayleef. Only Pokemon that can be a problem is Totodile. I mean they can miraculously make it powerful to match Sinnoh Pokemon power but we all know that it is one of the weakest.
     
  4. KingMinun

    KingMinun Dawn/Sinnoh Fan!

    But they could also evolve Totodile in a battle in the League to make it fair, since its the weakest one and it needs redemption.
     
  5. ijea4444

    ijea4444 Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't say infernape strong, but I expect Totodile to be Buizel(I angrily write buizel), swelllow, torkoal, etc strong. The only reason I write buizel is becuase somewhere after the maylene gym battle Buizel began losing all its power.
     
  6. cazatron

    cazatron Well-Known Member

    i guess it'd be too much to ask for either totodile or cyndaquil to pull a charmander and evolve twice within a couple of episodes, there should probably be at least one fullly evolved starter from johto, or maybe they could do that weird thing and have them training and then evolving for literally no apparent reason at exactly the same time. ah fantasies...
    i expect we'l see all three of the johto starters before long and i'd be suprised if at least 2 out of 3 have learned a new move i speculate bayleef would probably have learned lightscreen or reflect, cyndaquil -lava plume or double edge, and totodile- ice fang or crunch, the only way i see noctowl returning is if ash knows he'll be facing a tricky ghost type
     
  7. Thriller

    Thriller Its almost time

    There was no doubt in my mind that something was going to happen to the Johto Starters & Noctowl as a whole. I'm really not sure why CyberCubed had the problem with them like he always had but it's kinda been proven a long time ago that there is always room for redemption in this show.

    I really don't see all of the Pokemon leaving Ash after this episode even if the Sinnoh League doesn't start in DP 183 (gotta do the training!) so there may still be room for Bayleef & Totodile to evolve.
     
  8. CyberCubed

    CyberCubed Banned

    Because during Johto, they were awful. The writers redeeming them now is one thing, but back in their original saga they were not even engaging or fun to watch.

    Giving Ash all the starters again in the first place was a horrible idea. I don't know why they did that.

    However now if they're handling them well its an improvement.
     
  9. thunderblade12

    thunderblade12 Well-Known Member

    Something tells me that after this League, I'm going to consider everyone of Ash's pokemon major powerhouses. His entire Hoenn and Sinnoh team have already gotten it down. All 11 (counting Gliscor) are amoung his strongest. All of his Kanto pokemon are great except for maybe Muk (who should get redemption here.) I've always considered Quilava and Bayleef strong, and Donphan's alright if it has the skill to take down a Frontier Brain's pokemon. Totodile and Noctowl seem like the odd men out.

    IMO Muk, Totodile, and Noctowl are the three that need a few wins desperately. And of course Gible, but I'm not too worried about that. Draco Meteor will probably turn out to be some killer move considering all the build up it's getting. How long has Gible been trying to learn it now? Over twenty episodes? Usually attacks only take like 3-5 episodes to master. I like the idea of it evolving to master it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2010
  10. Thriller

    Thriller Its almost time

    The Pokemon themselves weren't awful. They were only remembered as being awful (especially in your case) because the Johto Saga, on the whole, was awful. Bringing Phanpy back for the Battle Frontier arc was a test - to see if they can figure out how to make it (and eventually, all the Johto Pokemon minus Heracross) work. Did you notice how different Phanpy was before it evolved? They took its old personality and changed it dramatically. A Donphan with that personality would never work out - that's why it didn't evolve in the first place and why it never got a single battle in the Silver Conference. The exact same thing is going to happen to the Johto starters minus Bayleef (if it could evolve once with that personality, it can do it again). I guarantee Cyndaquil & Totodile are going to be likable and fresh, with their old personalities thrown away.

    I agree it was a stupid thing to do, but that's not why they sucked. They all sucked because they had to fight against the popularity of the Kanto starters who very stupidly stayed around until it was time for the Johto starters to come in. They should have left Bulbasaur at the lab from the start. Its time was done (especially thanks to the extremely poor decision to not evolve), it didn't do anything for Johto. It spent so long leaving because the writers couldn't figure out what to do. Probably the only reason Bayleef evolved was to challenge Bulbasaur's popularity, and while it won the battle, it didn't win the war.

    That's exactly the answer everyone has to your original question, and I summed it all up.

    You Asked: What do people expect out of Ash's Johto Pokemon?

    And I answered: REDEMPTION. Exactly what Phanpy was given. Only this time, they can't make any risks. Totodile's "Dancing" personality isn't something that'll work with its evolution, but fortunately, its something they can slowly get rid of. Cyndaquil's "timid" personality is something they can simply throw away, and evolution is the quickest way to do so.
     
  11. Locormus

    Locormus Can we please get the old forum back?

    I don't like to nitpick, but Phanpy actually had a battle lasting about five seconds against a Machoke that is just about good as forgotten, and it did beat Macey's Slugma after it took a Water Gun from Totodile... and for the record, Phanpy did retain it's playful personality, according to the character bio's on the mainsite, and the picture proves that, Phanpy not evolving in Johto is due to the same reasons why we never saw jack of Heracross and why Cyndaquil didn't evolve in the first place, those were the writers noob decisions...

    I wouldn't like it if Cyndaquil's and Totodile's personalities, or quirks were entirely thrown away. That would just negate their personalities or whatever they had left at the end of Johto, which would mean there will not be any development characterwise but reinvention or modelation, and quite frankly that is even worse. There are ways to work around those character quirks to give the freshness...

    Cyndaquil: It's backing up scared into that rock. Seeing that makes me think that it still is a bit timid. Then it evolves ala same ol' same ol' rocket scenario, and gains more selfesteem and the edgy look that comes along with Quilava. In this case you are right that an evolution is the quickest way to change a pokemon's character, but outright throwing away is different, I mean look at Ash's Charmeleon for those three episodes it existed, there's nobody besides me who actually likes it... For Quilava it will probably mean more edge and selfesteem, but after it blasts TR away, I'm 100% sure that it will give Ash a smile in acknowledgement...

    Totodile: It could still have the jolly personality, and dance a bit. If it doesn't evolve then it's still fine. If it evolves, I can see it dancing less flamboyant and childlike, and adopting more cool moves that are less flashy. Just a little headbobbing on an imaginary beat with it's arms crossed is still a form of rhythmic movement as it comes out of the pokeball. Thereby it would look less childlike without the jumping and arms and feet going everywhere and instead would look cool, which would fit a Croconaw.

    It would still keep that 'dancing'-idea, but toned down, to a more mature idea, which is what I call development and a better idea then just outright removing it.

    Think of it as Totodile being a child, which dance with all their energy and arms waving about, while adolescents try to come off cool and try to restrict their movements as much as possible. (This is excluding break dancers of course)(Which is what I want to see Feraligatr do).
     
  12. SQUIRTLETamer08

    SQUIRTLETamer08 lower shiny ratio!

    Ah breaking dancing Feraligatr, if only. I would love it.


    I expect totodile, cyndaquil, bayleef, muk, and kingler to show up big; of course Ash will still count on his other powerhouses as well. Sure hope we see some good battles in which the underused Johto pokemon can redeem themselves.
     
  13. Legendary Charizard

    Legendary Charizard Fire Master

    I would like to see the Johto starters redeem themselves as well. It would be great to see all three of them evolve and do well in the league. I would like to see Ash use his older pokemon as he travels to different regions.

    I do have a question if anyone knows: Is Ash going to use his Kanto pokemon like Charizard?
     
  14. Legendary Charizard

    Legendary Charizard Fire Master

    I would like to see the Johto starters redeem themselves as well. It would be great to see all three of them evolve and do well in the league. I would like to see Ash use his older pokemon as he travels to different regions.

    I do have a question if anyone knows: Is Ash going to use his Kanto pokemon like Charizard?
     
  15. Locormus

    Locormus Can we please get the old forum back?

    Dambit! You are forgetting someone buddy... or do you just expect our alternate colored Owl friend to be less intimidating then Kingler? Who isn't even rumored to show up yet..

    Somehow this every thread here about Johto pokemon that might show up is about the starters and the Johto birdy gets left out every single time.. Remember in the Johto league? It didn't get any wins at all.. because Ash had the nerve to send it in against a freakin' Steelix.. What was he thinking!?

    We are all going off on the opening Saikou Everyday and the mangapage that was shown recently. The manga page confirmed a few pokemon to be in DP182, and therefore rumored to appear in the league.

    In Saikou Everyday, the following ten reserves were shown, in order in which Ash caught them:

    1. Muk
    2. Snorlax, confirmed
    3. Bayleaf, confirmed
    4. Quilava, evolution confirmed due to manga
    5. Totodile, confirmed
    6. Noctowl
    7. Donphan
    8. Corphish, confirmed
    9. Torkoal
    10. Glalie

    So half of the reserves that were shown is already confirmed, and therefore makes it even more likely that the others will show up as well. There however are a few that are still leaving the option open for the others to appear.
     
  16. Profesco

    Profesco gone gently

    I agree whole-heartedly with Locormus's response to Thriller. =P

    I'd like to ask, though, what exactly makes Ash getting all three regional starter Pokemon a bad idea?
     
  17. V Faction

    V Faction www.faction.com

    You know what? I said this on another *cough* forum, but if they were to move away from that wacky Totodile that dances like crazy and sounds like Donald Duck it just wouldn't be the same. I know they could very well tack on that personality to a Croconaw, but something would just feel... amiss.

    Is it a bad idea? Are people saying that? Where are those mooks...

    The show certainly has been trying to ingrain into our brains that having all 3 is not the right way. It gives us ample speculation to choose from when deciding on what Ash will get from the new batch of Pokemon. It certainly is a way to give more exposure to the less glorified portions of the Poke-Populus.

    Having all 3 starters used to mean something cool. The show's progressed to the point where they aren't afraid to hand out starters like candy to someone not on the main cast. I don't think it's a flawed progression design, but perhaps it is a bit outdated to hand over all the starters to Ash. Then again, fads do return every 15 years! Maybe we'll get a surprise for B&W, and Ash will once again return to possessing every starter that isn't Grass.
     
  18. thunderblade12

    thunderblade12 Well-Known Member

    Cyber, you need to make more threads. They have future-bending powers

    Aside from this thread being made right before it's revealed that Cyndaquil's going to evolve, I remember you making a thread about Gary not appearing very often before he was confirmed to be in the Galactic arc.
     
  19. Pepsi_Plunge

    Pepsi_Plunge Dojyaaa~~aan

    I always prefer having the 3 starters belonging to Ash and the other characters having other pokemons, thats part of the reason i dont want the new girl to be a beginer and have some pokemons already like Tracy when he joined the group, i feel the starters need the focus and i love the starters usually and i like to see them battle frequently and i like the interactions between them, the interaction that Ash had with the Kanto ones in the Battle Frontier for example was really cool i know that can be made with other pokes but i like seeing the 3 starters together, Mudkip/Torchich and Piplup had almost no interaction with Ash starters.
     
  20. Blazing Charmander

    Blazing Charmander Well-Known Member

    Now that Cyndaquil's evolution has been confirmed, i'm honestly excited for the rest of Ash's Johto Pokemon in the League arc. Given that the spoilers in the Greatest Everyday opening only extend as far as Dawn getting Togekiss, there is no telling how many developments there will be in Ash's reserve line up. My hopes as far as evolutions are concerned are as follows:

    - Bayleef: unevolved. I think that it suits Ash more than Meganium and I feel that it can more than hold its own in this form.

    - Cyndaquil -> Quilava -> Typhlosion: Another evolution to Typhlosion would seem nothing more than a pipedream, but i'm using the amount of experience that Cyndaquil gained in Johto as a hope that it can propel itself enough to go all the way to its final stage. In reality though, I can only see Quilava.

    - Totodile -> Croconaw: Totodile needs to prove itself in its first stage primarily, and then i'll be more than happy to see it evolve into a jovial Croconaw and perhaps even Feraligatr once it has a couple more wins.

    - Noctowl: A personality boost is a must, and i'd like to see it strut its stuff with its unique battling style as first seen in the Ecruteak Gym battle. It can really differentiate itself from Swellow and Staraptor in this regard.

    - Donphan: Pick up from where it left off in the Battle Frontier. It didn't get many Frontier Battles under its belt, but it was at least nice to see it evolve from the baby it was and also give Lucy's Seviper a run for its money.

    - Heracross: May not feature judging from the opening, but if it does, I hope it shows Ash how much of a powerhouse he is and why Ash was wrong to Oak him so early in his Johto quest. Already proven against Gary's Magmar and featured against Spencer.
     

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