Sets & Roles: What To Use & What Not To

McDanger · Sep 10, 2013

Every competitive battler knows that the set and the role there pokemon play are the key to winning battles. If your goal is to sweep an opposing team you need a wall breaker to cripple walls or a bait to check that one threat, where as if your trying to win through passive damage, you need the right wall. This thread is to show the newer members what to use and what is thought of as good, but is usually bad and should be avoided.

Nominations will be archived so everyone can see here on the first post, so please think before you nominate. Please use the form below

Code:

[B][U]Pokemon[/U][/B]:
[B][U]Role[/U][/B]:
[B][U]Set[/U][/B]:
[B][U]Description[/U][/B]: 
[B][U]Partners[/U][/B]:
[B][U]Counters[/U][/B]:

ex.

What to use:

Role: Wall Breaker / Support
Set: Garchomp @ Life Orb / Yache Berry / Focus Sash
Trait: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang / Aqua Tail / Stealth Rocks

Description: Garchomp is one of the best wall breakers in the current OU metagame due to his speed of 102, 130 base attack and his nice typing of dragon ground letting him resist stealth rocks. This combined with Garchomp`s access to swords dance and movepool makes him an extremely effective wall breaker. Swords dance is the main move of the set letting him shrug off intimidate from landorus therian and put it in a bad situation, and lets its cripple/OHKO other walls such as skarmory and ferrothorn. Earthquake and outrage are needed for powerful stabs while the final move is open for whatever you need. Fire fang lets garchomp check steels easier while aqua tail gets an effective stab boost in the rain, while he can force a chance to set up rocks because of the offensive pressure he applies. The item is also up to the user, life orb can be used to further increase your damage while a yache berry can be used to check keldeo/mamoswine that comes in to check you.

Partners: Terrakion likes garchomp as landorus therian is a big switch in for him who is a pain for terrakion to get around, as well as keldeo. Dragonite benefits from having another dragon to bait in ice users like keldeo and mamoswine and removes them, letting dragonite sweep easier.

Counters: Garchomps checks very on his 4th move, skarmory walls any sets that lack fire fang/aqua tail, ferrothorn does a decent job if its unboosted and lacks fire fang. Latios and latias are possibly the best as they can revenge him. Without a yache berry or focus sash, scarfed keldeo, scarfed jirachi and mamoswine can check him with their ice moves.

ex. 2

What not to use:

Role: Physical Sweeper
Set: Metagross @ Air Balloon
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Agility
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt / Meteor Mash
- Ice Punch / Thunder Punch

Description: With the speed creep of 5th gen, metagross lost his luster from 4th gen as he has to give up power to outpace threats like terrakion and keldeo. Even with jolly, metagross is revenged by +1 latios after an agility. Metagross also has trouble with coverage, especially now with keldeo so common and is often left weak to one or more things as he just cant carry enough moves. This in combo with how hard it is for metagross to set up an agility makes him a sub par sweeper when compaired to other agility/RP sweepers like thundurus therian and landorus therian. Overall, metagross is one of many pokemon that fell from grace from the generation switch.

Partners: If you`re going to use metagross, your partner depends on his move set. With zen headbutt and ice punch, metagross likes rotom wash as he can cripple waters and check gyarados who is a big pain. Breloom is even better as without meteor mash, tyrannitar can give him trouble, as well as heatran if its balloon is popped. Without zen headbutt celebi is an excellent partner as he checks keldeo and waters that give metagross trouble, while with thunderpunch, metagross struggles to get around landorus therian and dragons so bait jirachi is a nice partner as he kos them on the switch in. In general, metagross likes magnezone to trap steels as skarmory, ferrothorn, and forretress are near impossible for metagross to ko. Metagross also likes custap skarmory to score more OHKOs.

Counters: Metagross`s counters vary on its set, without zen headbutt and thunder punch, keldeo checks him, while with zen headbutt and ice punch, gyarados is a nice check. No matter the set tho skarmory, ferrothorn, and forretress wall it all day.

What to Use

http://www.serebiiforums.com/showth...o-Use-amp-What-Not-To&p=16393435#post16393435 - MCBarrett

none atm

http://www.serebiiforums.com/showth...o-Use-amp-What-Not-To&p=16379316#post16379316 - mcdanger

http://www.serebiiforums.com/showth...o-Use-amp-What-Not-To&p=16379710#post16379710 - Ima_Penguin

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http://www.serebiiforums.com/showth...o-Use-amp-What-Not-To&p=16379977#post16379977 - Jesusfreak

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http://www.serebiiforums.com/showth...o-Use-amp-What-Not-To&p=16386685#post16386685 - OceanicLanturn

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http://www.serebiiforums.com/showth...o-Use-amp-What-Not-To&p=16392873#post16392873 - The DragonKnight

==============================

http://www.serebiiforums.com/showth...o-Use-amp-What-Not-To&p=16398130#post16398130 - Contrail

none atm

McDanger · Sep 10, 2013

What not to use

http://www.serebiiforums.com/showth...o-Use-amp-What-Not-To&p=16379316#post16379316 - mcdanger

http://www.serebiiforums.com/showth...o-Use-amp-What-Not-To&p=16395758#post16395758 - Clay95

none atm

http://www.serebiiforums.com/showth...o-Use-amp-What-Not-To&p=16380262#post16380262 - Emeraldgoblin

none atm

Connor™ · Sep 10, 2013

What to use;

Pokemon: Ferrothorn
Role: Bait
Set: Ferrothorn @ Choice Band
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Attack / 4 Sp.Def
Brave nature
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Bulldoze
- Explosion

Explain: While this set is largely a gimmick, it can work very well for teams which require a solid Steel type to soak up Draco Meteors and the like without losing offensive pressure. The moves are fairly self explanatory - Gyro Ball and Power Whip both provide significant STAB moves, while Bulldoze allows Ferrothorn to obliterate common switch ins Magnezone and Heatran. Explosion is a solid last ditch filler move which, coming from 472 Attack, will deal some heavy damage to whatever takes it. Some common switch ins to Ferrothorn include Volcarona and Heatran, who are both OHKO'ed by Gyro Ball and Bulldoze respectively, while other Pokemon such as Dragonite or Garchomp looking to scare Ferrothorn out while setting up are also promptly OHKO'ed by Gyro Ball following damage from Stealth Rocks. Another notable switch in which CBFerrothorn essentially renders useless is Double Dance Landorus-Therian - solidly dealing a minimum of 70% with Gyro Ball as it switches in. Below are some calculations to pay testament to this things power, as well as it's effectiveness in removing certain switch ins.

252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 229-270 (73.63 - 86.81%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 337-397 (104.33 - 122.91%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 48 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 235-277 (70.99 - 83.68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 337-397 (94.13 - 110.89%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Bulldoze vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Heatran: 328-388 (85.19 - 100.77%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (Less bulky sets are guaranteed OHKO'es)
252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Bulldoze vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 308-364 (95.06 - 112.34%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus-T: 215-253 (71.9 - 84.61%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (130 BP) vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Toxicroak: 262-310 (71.19 - 84.23%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (Bulk Up set has significant chance to OHKO, Swords Dance is clean OHKO)

Due to the Pokemon which this specific Ferrothorn helps eliminate, it can fit very nicely into offensive teams alongside CM Jirachi, who has trouble against a number of the above Pokemon (notably Garchomp and Landorus-Therian), largely due to the ease with which it eliminates Pokemon which CMJirachi has a lot of trouble with, while ensuring that the team as a whole does not lose offensive momentum, as would be the case with the standard Ferrothorn set.

McDanger · Sep 10, 2013

Ima_penguin_95 said:
What to use;

Pokemon: Ferrothorn
Role: Bait
Set: Ferrothorn @ Choice Band
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Attack / 4 Sp.Def
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Bulldoze
- Explosion

Explain: While this set is largely a gimmick, it can work very well for teams which require a solid Steel type to soak up Draco Meteors and the like without losing offensive pressure. The moves are fairly self explanatory - Gyro Ball and Power Whip both provide significant STAB moves, while Bulldoze allows Ferrothorn to obliterate common switch ins Magnezone and Heatran. Explosion is a solid last ditch filler move which, coming from 472 Attack, will deal some heavy damage to whatever takes it. Some common switch ins to Ferrothorn include Volcarona and Heatran, who are both OHKO'ed by Gyro Ball and Bulldoze respectively, while other Pokemon such as Dragonite or Garchomp looking to scare Ferrothorn out while setting up are also promptly OHKO'ed by Gyro Ball following damage from Stealth Rocks. Another notable switch in which CBFerrothorn essentially renders useless is Double Dance Landorus-Therian - solidly dealing a minimum of 70% with Gyro Ball as it switches in. Below are some calculations to pay testament to this things power, as well as it's effectiveness in removing certain switch ins.

252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 229-270 (73.63 - 86.81%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 337-397 (104.33 - 122.91%) -- guaranteed OHKO

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 48 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 235-277 (70.99 - 83.68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 337-397 (94.13 - 110.89%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Bulldoze vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Heatran: 328-388 (85.19 - 100.77%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (Less bulky sets are guaranteed OHKO'es)

252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Bulldoze vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 308-364 (95.06 - 112.34%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus-T: 215-253 (71.9 - 84.61%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (130 BP) vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Toxicroak: 262-310 (71.19 - 84.23%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (Bulk Up set has significant chance to OHKO, Swords Dance is clean OHKO)

Due to the Pokemon which this specific Ferrothorn helps eliminate, it can fit very nicely into offensive teams alongside CM Jirachi, who has trouble against a number of the above Pokemon (notably Garchomp and Landorus-Therian), largely due to the ease with which it eliminates Pokemon which CMJirachi has a lot of trouble with, while ensuring that the team as a whole does not lose offensive momentum, as would be the case with the standard Ferrothorn set.

i hate this thing with a passion lol, i think double dance lando likes ferro too as he had trouble with what you listed, plus you can double switch ferro in on celebi and KO it

jesusfreak94 · Sep 10, 2013

I'd definitely slash Focus Sash on the Garchomp set since you mentioned Stealth Rock, as SD + Sash + SR Garchomp is a pretty common and good lead.

I guess this would count as support since it acts as both a lure and a Stealth Rock supporter, but I'd like to bring up this bad boy.

What to Use

Pokemon: Jirachi
Role: Support
Jirachi @ Shuca Berry
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SAtk / 184 Spd
Modest Nature
-Stealth Rock
-Flash Cannon
-Thunderbolt / Thunder
-Hidden Power [Ice]

Explain: Okay, so if you haven't already tried this Jirachi set out, give it a shot. ShucaRachi is one of the coolest combinations of lure, support, and offensive pivot that I've ever used. As most Jirachi sets, this set can utilize Jirachi's natural typing and bulk to act as a reliable Stealth Rock supporter for its team and offensive pivot in general. Even with just 72 HP EVs, it still takes on Pokemon like Sub Kyurem-B and Specs Latios pretty well. What sets this apart from other sets is the Shuca Berry. Jirachi naturally lures in Ground-type Pokemon like Landorus-T and Garchomp, and the Shuca Berry allows Jirachi to take an Earthquake from either and OHKO with HP Ice. Flash Cannon serves as a moderately powerful STAB, and Thunderbolt does well in rounding out the coverage with Magnezone being the only OU Pokemon to resist Jirachi's coverage. If used on a Rain team, this set's usefulness increases dramatically. Besides the fact that Jirachi now has much less to fear from Fire-type attacks, Rain also gives it the freedom to run Thunder over Thunderbolt. This isn't just good for the power; it's also good for the 60% paralysis chance, giving Jirachi another minor role as a status platform of sorts. The EVs on this set allow Jirachi to always outrun any Adamant Landorus-T, letting Jirachi KO with HP Ice before it has a chance to attack, and the Shuca Berry helps against faster sets. Seeing as how this set excels at luring in and killing Garchomp and Landorus-T among other things, Pokemon that want these two gone (particularly Landorus-T) will make great partners for Jirachi. Examples include Terrakion, SD Scizor, and non-Ice Punch Toxicroak, all of which would love for Landorus-T to be out of the way.

Connor™ · Sep 11, 2013

Seconding the above. I use it extensively in my 3:3 Steel monotypes for CCL, and it works magnificently. I'd also suggest slashing in Timid, as it allows you to outrun any cheeky Landorus-T running Jolly to try and get a leg over Pokemon like Jirachi.

McDanger · Sep 11, 2013

jesusfreak94 said:
I'd definitely slash Focus Sash on the Garchomp set since you mentioned Stealth Rock, as SD + Sash + SR Garchomp is a pretty common and good lead.

I guess this would count as support since it acts as both a lure and a Stealth Rock supporter, but I'd like to bring up this bad boy.

What to Use

Pokemon: Jirachi
Role: Support
Jirachi @ Shuca Berry
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SAtk / 184 Spd
Modest Nature
-Stealth Rock
-Flash Cannon
-Thunderbolt / Thunder
-Hidden Power [Ice]

Explain: Okay, so if you haven't already tried this Jirachi set out, give it a shot. ShucaRachi is one of the coolest combinations of lure, support, and offensive pivot that I've ever used. As most Jirachi sets, this set can utilize Jirachi's natural typing and bulk to act as a reliable Stealth Rock supporter for its team and offensive pivot in general. Even with just 72 HP EVs, it still takes on Pokemon like Sub Kyurem-B and Specs Latios pretty well. What sets this apart from other sets is the Shuca Berry. Jirachi naturally lures in Ground-type Pokemon like Landorus-T and Garchomp, and the Shuca Berry allows Jirachi to take an Earthquake from either and OHKO with HP Ice. Flash Cannon serves as a moderately powerful STAB, and Thunderbolt does well in rounding out the coverage with Magnezone being the only OU Pokemon to resist Jirachi's coverage. If used on a Rain team, this set's usefulness increases dramatically. Besides the fact that Jirachi now has much less to fear from Fire-type attacks, Rain also gives it the freedom to run Thunder over Thunderbolt. This isn't just good for the power; it's also good for the 60% paralysis chance, giving Jirachi another minor role as a status platform of sorts. The EVs on this set allow Jirachi to always outrun any Adamant Landorus-T, letting Jirachi KO with HP Ice before it has a chance to attack, and the Shuca Berry helps against faster sets. Seeing as how this set excels at luring in and killing Garchomp and Landorus-T among other things, Pokemon that want these two gone (particularly Landorus-T) will make great partners for Jirachi. Examples include Terrakion, SD Scizor, and non-Ice Punch Toxicroak, all of which would love for Landorus-T to be out of the way.

Forgot the sash lol. I personally love this set with physical sweepers, namely terrakion as he smashes landorus therian, skarmory, and cripples jellicent and can do good damage to scizor.

Ima_penguin_95 said:
Seconding the above. I use it extensively in my 3:3 Steel monotypes for CCL, and it works magnificently. I'd also suggest slashing in Timid, as it allows you to outrun any cheeky Landorus-T running Jolly to try and get a leg over Pokemon like Jirachi.

Noted

Eliteknight · Sep 11, 2013

What to use:

Pokemon: Celebi
Role: Support
Set: Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 220 HP / 252 SAtk / 36 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Giga Drain
- Stealth Rock/Thunder wave
- Recover
- Hidden Power [Ice]/ Hidden Power fire

This set is one of my personal favourites to use in OU. Giga drain is the primary stab. Hidden Power [Ice]/[Fire] depends on what your team needs to cover more. Rocks or t-wave up to you on how you wish to cripple the opponent. Recover is to allow celebi to live longer.

Calcs.

252+ SpA Life Orb Celebi Giga Drain vs. 248 HP / 232+ SpD Rotom-W: 205-244 (67.65 - 80.52%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Celebi Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar: 213-252 (52.72 - 62.37%) -- 98.44% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Celebi Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Politoed: 213-252 (55.46 - 65.62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Celebi Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 208 SpD Ferrothorn: 270-322 (76.7 - 91.47%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Celebi Giga Drain vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Jellicent: 281-330 (69.72 - 81.88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Celebi Hidden Power Ice vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 463-546 (131.53 - 155.11%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Celebi Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 382-452 (90.95 - 107.61%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Celebi Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo: 320-377 (98.76 - 116.35%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Attacks from common OU sweepers.

252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Ice vs. 220 HP / 0 SpD Celebi: 152-180 (38.38 - 45.45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Terrakion X-Scissor vs. 220 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 348-412 (87.87 - 104.04%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 220 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 218-260 (55.05 - 65.65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 Atk Landorus-T U-turn vs. 220 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 280-332 (70.7 - 83.83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 220 HP / 0 SpD Celebi: 240-284 (60.6 - 71.71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

EmeraldGoblin · Sep 11, 2013

Infernape @ Focus Sash
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- Fake Out
- Overheat
- Close Combat
- Stealth Rock

the anti-lead lead! He can take care of most leads by first getting rid of their sash with fake out. Then he can proceed to use strong stabs + speed to KO opposing hazard setters. Then he can set up his own hazards. It is very useful because who doesn't want to be ahead on the hazard setting business?

McDanger · Sep 11, 2013

EmeraldGoblin said:
Infernape @ Focus Sash
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- Fake Out
- Overheat
- Close Combat
- Stealth Rock

the anti-lead lead! He can take care of most leads by first getting rid of their sash with fake out. Then he can proceed to use strong stabs + speed to KO opposing hazard setters. Then he can set up his own hazards. It is very useful because who doesn't want to be ahead on the hazard setting business?

the lack of form -__-

what not to use

Pokemon:Infernape
Role:Support
Set:Infernape @ Focus Sash
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- Fake Out
- Overheat
- Close Combat
- Stealth Rock
explain: While fake out infernape seems like it may be good with leads like custap skarmory and sashed terrakion, however, infernape fails to do what they do, stop hazards from going up, or in skarmory and forretress`s case stake a bunch. Furthermore Infernape is very frail and easily revenged and, unlike terrakion, suffers from sandstorm so its sash is easily broken and limiting his effectiveness. While fake out infernape has a nice niche in being mixed so he can check skarmory and forretress easier then terrakion (tho terrakion taunts it and forces them out) he is generally outclassed by terrakion for a lead.

Upon suggestion by Dr Ceil, I`m going to ask if people can post good teammates and counters for submissions for newer members and members that havn`t used the nominated pokemon, i`ll update it in the first post.

epicdrill · Sep 12, 2013

This is a set to use.

Pokemon: Ferrothorn
Role: Support
Set: Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 SpD, 252 Def, 12 HP
IVs: 0 Spe (only with gyro ball)
Nature: Sassy/Careful
-Thunder Wave
-Leech Seed
-Spikes/Stealth Rock
-Power Whip/Gyro Ball
explain: This is a lead ferro. It will survive some weaker fire moves, it can set up hazards, it can turn 2HKOs into 3HKOs with Leech Seed (inflicting 28% health damage extra to physical attackers in the process). Spikes is used only if you have another teammate with SR. As for Power Whip/Gyro Ball, it is really based on your teammates. Thunder wave is very crippling, as if a sweeper tries to come in and set up, boom, it's speed is chopped so that it needs +6 to get back to it's original speed and it has a 25% chance to finch each turn. One thing I have found is that this ferro, if preserved, can also help you in the later game as well with thunder waving sweepers that rely on speed, breaking subs/OHKOing offensive spinners like starmie. If my opponent has an espeon, I will still send this out as a lead, as they will usually switch into espeon expecting a status move, only to be hit by Power Whip/Gyro ball for a 2HKO on all but the most defensive varieties.
partners: Politoed is a good partner, as rain halves fire moves' power, increasing his survivability, which is this set's greatest asset. Also, politoed can take out opposing magnezone who are sent out to counter the expected ferro lead. Ferro makes a good partner for Hippowdon/Tyranitar, destroying opposing politoed in two hits with Power Whip and setting up hazards and paralysis for teams to take advantage of later on.
counters: Magnezone, when used against someone who doesn't know what they are doing, will destroy this set, trapping and OHKOing with HP Fire. Strong bulkilly offensive ground types are immune to Twave and will resist the stall. Other than that, few things can outstall this or KO it without taking severe damage plus a paralysis.

That is my ferrothorn set, make of it what you will.

OceanicLanturn · Sep 12, 2013

Pokemon: Latios
Role: Bait (sort of)
Set:
Latios @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Naive Nature (but you can run others, it all depends on the last slot)
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Draco Meteor / Hidden Power [Fire]
explain:
I just feel like 'C+P' from Smogon, but never mind.
Generally, Latios run specially offensive sets. Therefore, when you switch it in on some Pokemon that are pretty Latios-weak, it forces a switch. This is what the set wishes to accomplish. Many at time, the 'switch' will usually be either to Jirachi or Heatran, since they are usually pretty specially defensive inclined. The switch is when you do your beautiful Dragon Dance. At +1, Latios becomes faster than all other Scarfers (except opposing Scarf Latios or the rare Scarf Latias, who it speed ties with). There, it shows its beautiful power to slay steel types:

+1 Earthquake vs. 180/0 Tyranitar: 79.53 - 93.52% — guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
+1 Earthquake vs. 252/0 Jirachi: 81.68 - 96.53% — 93.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 2 Spikes
+1 Earthquake vs. 32/0 Shuca Berry Jirachi: 47.27 - 55.87% — guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Heatran is a given thanks to its x4 ground weakness. Even after the surprise factor and the thing that it is supposed to lure is killed, it can still kill opposing dragons and put a big dent on opposing teams before going down. With the surprise factor gone, it's common for physical walls to switch in. This is what the last slot hopes to accomplish. Draco Meteor puts a dent on incoming physically defensive mons, especially those carrying Intimidate, such as Landorus-T, Gyarados and Hippowdon. Hidden Power [Fire] can also be chosen as an alternative for Draco Meteor since many Ferrothorn tend to switch in, only to be nailed by x4 HP Fire. Along with that, it also hits Skarmory (who walls this set to no ends), Scizor (same, but less) and Foretress (who can just set up hazards) pretty hard. Don't forget the +1 boost that makes it godly fast.

partners:
Hazard support is helpful, since it lets it KO certain Pokemon. Steel-killers such as Magnezone is also a big help, since it can trap and kill steels which allows Latios to free the last slot up for Draco Meteor. If you opt for Hidden Power Fire, stuff like Landorus-T, Gyarados and Hippowdon needs to be taken care of by its teammates.

counters:
I have no idea actually. I believe Bronzong sort of do it, since its Tank set is 3HKO by HP Fire and +1 Outrage respectively, while it 2HKOs back. If the last slot is figured out, Latios is easier to counter. Most non-ground weak steels such as Ferrothorn can come in if the last slot is Draco Meteor, and same goes for Skarmory, though Skarmory can't do much against it. If the last slot is Hidden Power Fire, Intimidate Gyarados, Landorus-T and Hippowdon can wall it and retaliate with a move of their choice. Balloon Heatran gets a mention, since it can absorb HP (Fire) and it's balloon is only broken by Outrage, who will lock Latios into the said move, allowing a switch to a steel to kill Latios. Also, toxic and burns especially, are good ways to wear down Latios. Paralysis deserves a mention too, since it cuts Latios's speed and makes +1 Latios easier to handle.

This thread is <3

Connor™ · Sep 12, 2013

What to Use

Pokemon: Landorus-Therian
Role: Sweeper
Set: Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 52 Atk / 92 Def / 116 Speed
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Explain: Bulky Double Dancer Landorus-Therian, popularised by Ojama's GGolbat RMT on Smogon. This thing can set up in the face of so much of the metagame it's almost funny, and the EV's still allow for plenty of power while increasing this thing's staying power. The defensive EV's allow it to double up as a pivot of sorts for the team, easily taking attacks from Pokemon such as Terrakion, all while still ensuring you get the necessary 2HKO'es on Pokemon such as Hippowdon and Ferrothorn after a single SD. Of course, this set will typically get more than a single SD or Rock Polish, purely because of how well it sets up.

Partners: General partners are Pokemon which can actively remove the sturdier Physical walls which can give Landorus-Therian trouble, namely Gliscor and Skarmory. Other Pokemon could include Trapper Scizor or Choice Band Tyranitar, who can both eliminate Latios and Latias, who give this set some trouble when it's attempting to set up. Custap Skarmory can effectively lay down hazards which help enormously in Landorus-Therian's attempt to sweep, while Choice Specs Gothitelle is guaranteed to remove Gliscor, Skarmory and Hippowdon with HP Ice, Thunderbolt and Grass Knot respectively.

Two extremely useful Pokemon to consider in a core for this specific Landorus-Therian are Expert Belt Jirachi and Choice Specs Keldeo. The sets are below, as well as the explanation of what they do for Landorus-Therian.

[spoiler="Expert Belt Jirachi]Jirachi @ Expert Belt
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 68 HP / 252 SpAtk / 188 Speed
Timid Nature
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Icy Wind
- Hidden Power Fire

This thing actively obliterates the Pokemon which could possibly counter the above Landorus-Therian set. Skarmory and Slowbro are dispatched by Thunderbolt, Gliscor and opposing Landorus-Therian have a bad time with Icy Wind, while Hidden Power Fire can weaken Pokemon such as Forretress and Ferrothorn to allow Landorus-Therian to blow through them more easily. This Jirachi set also has sound defensive synergy with Landorus-Therian, coming in handily on the Ice attacks aimed at Landorus-Therian, while Landorus-Therian is immune to the Ground attacks directed as Jirachi.[/spoiler]

[spoiler="Choice Specs Keldeo]Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252 SpAtk / 4 SpDef / 252 Speed
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind
- Hidden Power Ghost

This Keldeo offers even more defensive synergy with the other two Pokemon of this core, while helping deal effectively with the Rain teams which give a Landorus-Therian sweep so much trouble. Hydro Pump in the rain effectively destroys the majority of OU, while specifically targeting the Pokemon which give Landorus-Therian trouble such as Skarmory, Gliscor and Hippowdon. The other moves are essentially for coverage, as Hydro Pump will be the main move you are using on this set specifically to disrupt Landorus-Therian's counters and apply pressure to the opponents Rain team.[/spoiler]

Counters: Hard counters include Skarmory and Hippowdon, who can both take Landorus-Therian's boosted moves and heal off the damage, all while threatning Landorus-Therian's sweep with their respective pHazing moves. Sub Protect Gliscor can effectively handle Landorus-Therian by giving it hated status in the form of Toxic, while effectively stalling it out of Stone Edge PP before it can boost enough to threaten it. Slowbro offers a counter which can easily sponge Earthquake's and immediately threaten back with STAB Super Effective Scald, and should Slowbro burn Landorus-Therian, it is game over.

This specific Landorus-Therian set can be checked by fast Choice Scarf Pokemon such as Latios and Keldeo, who can both threaten Landorus-Therian with power special attacks to target it's weaker defensive stat. Other checks include bulky Latias, who can cause a fair amount of damage to Landorus-Therian in order to prevent it setting up without fear. Landorus-Therian also fears Ice Shard from Pokemon such as Mamoswine and Weavile, however, Scizor can not work as a check to a healthy Landorus-Therian. This is due to the fact this specific Landorus-Therian set is 3HKO'ed by Scizor's Choice Banded Bullet Punch even without Intimidate, meaning Landorus-Therian will be able to muscle through all Scizor sets one on one.

McDanger · Sep 12, 2013

sets have been added

Cherche · Sep 12, 2013

Alright, my turn. Warning: Long (ish?) post coming up.

What to use

Role: Physical Sweeper

(Dragonite) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Fire Punch / Waterfall
- Earthquake / Superpower

Dragonite, the original dragon, has always been a fan favourite since it's inception, & it's no surprise why. By just looking at it, you can tell that it's extremely powerful. Back in DPP, Dragonite was a real top threat, with it's famous Dragon Dance set, which, when you removed his counters, was able & ready to sweep. However, the Dream World granted Dragonite one of the best abilities in the game, with Multiscale. Now, as long as Dragonite is at full health, any moves used against him is reduced by 50%, now guaranteeing a free Dragon Dance, which makes it that much more deadly to stop.

Good Partners: Due to a weakness to Stealth Rock, taking away 25% of his health when he switches in, Rapid Spinners is an absolute necessity here, so your best bets here are Pokémon like Foretress, Donphan, as well as Starmie. As with any sweeper, Stealth Rock support is always needed in order to secure important KOs, so good partners here would include Landorus-T & Ferrothorn. Finally, another solid partner would be Rotom-W, whom can take on 3 of Dragonites common checks, Skarmory, Gliscor, & Landorus-T, scaring out the former, with the threat of a Volt Switch & taking out the latter two with a STAB Hydro Pump.

What Counters It: Due to Dragonite's sheer versatility, it is nearly impossible to find a counter for him. Nonetheless, there are some solid checks to this set in particular. The first one being Mamoswine. Mamoswine can't switch directly into Dragonite, but it can come in after a double switch & easily OHKO Dragonite with an LO STAB Icicle Crash ( You can calc it yourself, KO's even with Multiscale intact ). Choice Scarf users such as Latios, Keldeo, Salamence, Kyurem, & Thundurus-T can all OHKO Dragonite if Multiscale is broken, making them all solid checks to him. Some other good checks to this guy is Physically Defensive Skarmory in Rain. In the rain, Skarmory takes only about ~30 - 40% from a +1 Fire Punch & can retaliate back by using Whirlwind to remove its boosts or set up Spikes in its face.

The DragonKnight · Sep 13, 2013

What to use.

Pokemon: Victini
Role: Bait

Victini @ Expert Belt
Trait: Victory Star
EVs: 196 Spd / 252 SAtk / 60 HP
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blue Flare
- Thunder
- Focus Blast
- Glaciate

Your against a sun team, and you see they have a Victini. What do you assume? V-create spam, so one of your first counters would be defensive Politoed, if you have one.
This set lures in Politoed, Dragons that expect to bulk out a V-create and then KO back, Tyranitar, and other bulky waters.

You have to predict well with this set, because if you predict wrongly, Victini could end up KOed, you'll have to make an obvious switch, or you could get lucky.

The EVs outspeed Adamant Landorus-Therian, Jolly Mamoswine, and everything slower. Obviously you want max special attack, and the rest is just into bulk.

Blue Flare is to still have a powerful Fire attack and not just go all in on luring in Pokes and KOing them, although that's this sets main role. Blue Flare is easy to spam in Sun with Victini, thanks to Victory Star, which boosts Blue Flare's accuracy to 93.5%.

252+ SpA Victini Blue Flare vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T in sun: 351-414 (92.12 - 108.66%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Expert Belt Victini Blue Flare vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Celebi in sun: 511-605 (126.48 - 149.75%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Expert Belt Victini Blue Flare vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Jirachi in sun: 511-605 (126.48 - 149.75%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Victini Blue Flare vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Kyurem-B in sun: 252-297 (55.5 - 65.41%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Thunder is to get them bulky waters and, most importantly, Politoed. Even without rain, it still has an accuracy of 77%, which is slightly worse than Stone Edge.

252+ SpA Expert Belt Victini Thunder vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Politoed: 286-338 (74.47 - 88.02%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 Layer of Spikes
252+ SpA Expert Belt Victini Thunder vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 245-290 (67.49 - 79.88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Expert Belt Victini Thunder vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Jellicent: 274-324 (67.99 - 80.39%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Focus Blast is to hit Heatran and Tyranitar.

252+ SpA Expert Belt Victini Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 278-331 (68.81 - 81.93%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 3 Layers of Spikes
252+ SpA Expert Belt Victini Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 199-235 (51.68 - 61.03%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

And then there is Glaciate. Why Glaciate over HP Ice? To outspeed the Dragons that could switch in on Victini and then outspeed it. Ice is great coverage here considering nothing hits the Dragons hard, especially Garchomp, who resists Blue Flare and isn't effected by Thunder.

Glaciate OHKOs everything with double weakness to Ice, and 2HKOs Latios after SR and has 75% of 2HKOing Latias after SR.

partners: Obviously this will be used on a Sun team, so Ninetales should always be used as a Partner. After that there isn't a perfect partner because this thing isn't meant to be built around, it's meant to be a part of a sun team that doesn't want to use Dugtrio and wants that Surprise Factor.

counters: Blue Flare has a 1% chance of 3HKOing Gastrodon in the sun, so Gastro is the perfect counter to this set, because it can just recover off the damage and than kill Victini.

Anything that outspeeds it and can OHKO it is obviously a problem, but you're meant to use prediction well with this set and not try to win a 1v1 battle.

ClayFighter · Sep 13, 2013

Really liking this thread, so I thought I'd post a mon.

What To Use:

Pokemon: Azumarill
Role: Physical Sweeper
Azumarill @ Choice Band
Trait: Huge Power
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Superpower
- Ice Punch

explain: Azumarill is severely underrated in terms of battling prowess. No common offensive pokemon enjoys having to take an aqua jet boosted by choice band, Huge Power, and rain. This makes Azumarill one of the most solid revenge killers available. However, Azu must be used cautiously, as it is VERY predictable. Azu's low speed mean that Aqua Jet is usually going to be its only safe move (though this set has enough speed EVs to outspeed Blissey and OHKO with Superpower). Compounded by its reliance on Choice Band and Rain, Azumarill requires a lot of support to keep it from being demolished by switch-ins that can use it as set-up bait. In spite of these liabilities and shortcomings, Azumarill's tremendous physical power and access to priority warrant it a spot on rain teams, but not without the proper teammates.

partners: It should be noted that Azumarill is a VERY high maintenance pokemon that requires a ton of support to maximize its potential. Politoed is a given as it enhances the strength of aqua jet. Hazards are really helpful as they break sashes and ultimately help pull Azu through a sweep. Skarmory, Forretress, and Ferrothorn all serve this role well. Ferrothorn in particular can be used to sponge grass and electric attacks directed at Azu, so keep that in mind when building a team. A spin blocker like Gengar could be helpful to keep the hazards in play. It is important to keep status off Azu at all times, as it is utterly helpless once it becomes burned. Clerics like Celebi and Blissey, or even status absorbers like Conkeldurr can be helpful. Thundurus-T also helps eliminate many of Azu's counters, such as Gyarados and Jellicent, and can also switch in to take electric attacks. Azu's battling style involves a lot of switches, so make sure you have a spinner (Starmie, Forretress) or Magic Bounce user so that hazards don't burden your team.

counters: Quite a few actually. Gyarados can laugh in its face and set up dragon dance, Toxicroak can get SD up (or bulk up, i guess), etc. Worse still, Jellicent and Rotom-W can burn Azu with will-o-wisp, effectively crippling it. Sun is a great way to counter Azumarill, since its water attacks are severely weakened and its coverage moves are outsped by most common sun sweepers (even the ones without chlorophyll). Dragonite is a terror for Azu to deal with, especially in sun (though you should watch for ice punch). Other counters and switch-ins include Celebi, Ferrothorn, Kyurem-B, Gastrodon, Kingdra, Slowbro and virtually any other bulky water or grass type. ALL of these counters work much better if you have hazards off the field, so a spinner can really help a lot.

MCBarrett · Sep 14, 2013

Posted this in a similar thread a while back, hopefully thats ok if i just copy paste

Heatran Air Balloon, Leftovers, Chople Berry
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk 4 SDef 252 Spd
Modest, Timid Nature
- Magma Storm
- Sunny Day
- SolarBeam
- Earth Power, HP Ice

Role: Support

What it does: Storm Trapper Heatran is a fantastic Pokemon on Sun Teams since it can lure out opposing Politoed that are trying to set up the Rain and trap it with Magma Storm on the switch. From there Heatran can set up a Sunny Day to put the weather in its favor and take out Politoed with Solar Beam. Heatran also provides a valuable Dragon Resist for Sun Teams which is nice. The item is basically personal preference, Air Balloon and Chople Berry allow for more switch-in opportunities and Leftovers gives more longevity. The Final Move Slot is either used for coverage based on your teams needs. An added bonus is the sheer power that Magma Storm provides under the sun, doing major damage anything that does not resist it. Another nice thing is that it can break through the Sash of incoming Dugtrio thanks to the extra 6% damage Magma Storm does each turn. Timid allows Heatran to outspeed Adamant Dragonite and Toxic Stall Gliscor so if using HP Ice this is the preferred option.

Good Teammates: Obviously this set lends itself to Sun Teams so Ninetales is basically a necessary mention. Anything that can resist most of Heatran's weaknesses and also can fit on to a Sun Team are appreciated as well. Xatu comes to mind with it's Ground Immunity and 4x resistance to Fighting Type moves. Dugtrio deserves mention as well since it can trap opposing Heatran and free up TrapTran's final Move Slot. Also, Dugtrio can trap opposing Tyranitar very effectively so your team is covered against both weathers. Lastly, any Chlorophyll sweeper such as Venusaur and Sawsbuck, that can take advantage of having the weather in their favor, are a must or else Heatran's efforts to change the weather are not fully taken advantage of.

What Counters It: Special walls such as Blissey and Cresselia are obviously going to be able to be a problem since they have reliable recovery and can tank hits for days, plus you will have to string a few Magma Storm hits together to even have a chance to take them out. Dugtrio deserves a mention since it can easily trap and revenge kill as long as your Air Balloon is broken. Opposing Heatran can also be troublesome if Earth Power is not being used. Scarf Politoed deserves a mention as well because it can foil your plans at trapping it if the Scarf has been bluffed well enough or if you do not adjust to the situation. When facing Scarf Toed you should use Sunny Day on the switch in to weaken its Water Type attacks and give you a chance at hitting back with a strong Solar Beam. Chople Berry definitely helps against Scarf Toed as well since it weakens Focus Blast.

Additional Comments: Storm Trapper Heatran provides great support for Sun Teams in multiple ways and helps to get the edge on Rain Teams that can give Sun loads of trouble. As stated earlier the dragon resist is an added bonus since the Lati twins are such big threats to sun. This set even has its merits against sand as well since bulky waters like Jellicent and Gastrodon can be trapped effectively. Overall this set is very effective and has some nice surprise factor making it very fun to use. It should definitely be considered on any balanced Sun Team.

Naoto Shirogane · Sep 14, 2013

What to use

Metagross @ Life Orb
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Zen Headbutt
- Ice Punch
- Agility
- Earthquake

Role: Physical sweeper

explain: metagross is one of the best underated threats in ou. when a dragon is trapped in outrage metagross can use agility and sweep any pokemon without good defence. Thanks to clear body lando i cannot lower metagross attack and thanks to agility it can ko it with ice punch. metagross can set up on many major threats in ou such as choice band scizor. metagross is bulky so it can take a hit and set up and sweep. With keldeo staying in ou zen headbutt gets a nice stab and can ko keldeo and terra which are big threats in ou. earthquake can take out magnezone and heatran. Ice punch are used to take out common dragons such as dragonite and latios. After one agility metagross outspeeds choice scarf latios this makes metagross really hard to take down because it outspeeds your pokes.

partners: lando was the best partner for metagross as it stopped ground type moves and then it could set up rock polish and sweep. Jirachi can also work well if it tricks a choiced item to a pokemon this can lead to metagross setting up. Rotom also works well because they both check each other weakness rotom stops fire and ground while metagross can stop grass.

counters: Hippodon counters metagross hard since it can recover and has very high defence. hippodon also carrys earthquake which can beat metagross. Skarmory laughs at metagross because metagross cannot beat it and skarmory can set up rocks and spikes on it. then it can use whirlwind to stop the agility boost.

McDanger · Sep 14, 2013

gets active the day i`m gone lol, all will be added to the first post
@dragonknight: I love that set, tho i have to say that hp ice is much better as he misses out on OHKOs on threats like landorus therian. I also prefer v create over blue flare to hit special walls harder.
@rair: i already have metagross in the post, tho i have it as not to use cause he has is generally outclassed by landorus therian as a agility sweeper, and his low speed sucks

Sets & Roles: What To Use & What Not To

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S.L.Y.

Rehab, no. Dead.

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Non non non!

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Banned

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