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Should college and work places make the shot mandatory

Gamzee Makara

Flirtin' With Disaster
Should or will?

Should yes, barring excpetions certified by an actual doctor, and not printed out or self-diagnosed.

Will they?
No, because lawsuits and medical ethics are at a fever pitch.
 

Pokefan_1987

Avid Pokemon TCG Card collector.
No it should never be. But here in Iceland everyone was getting automated phone messages and our family decided not to take any chances. Luckily i only got minor swelling in my left shoulder like being punched hard, both times. And i hate needles for crying out loud.

Last time i remembered a mandatory shot was for meningitis that could not be opted out of. It was back in 2002 during elementary school when i was 14. I do know it is a very dangerous condition But it wasn't even part of the society program of recommended vaccines people get depending on age.
 

WishIhadaManafi5

To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before.
Staff member
Moderator
Moving this over to debate, just in case.
 

bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
It should be noted that the FDA did authorize the Vaccines for emergency use, and the delay is more because testing is still needed to confirm it's fully safe for 16 and under more than anything else.

Plus the people who keep "Waiting for the evidence" will never receive enough evidence in most cases. Hillary Clinton coming out against a vaccine would do more to motivate these people to get the vaccine compared to any science.

99% of deaths now are unvaccinated people. If you're someone who refused a vaccine with no clear medical condition otherwise (Recent organ transplant, pregnancy) and got severly sick or died, I really have no sympathy at this point for you.
 

Zora

perpetually tired
Profusely yes, barring medical exemptions. I remember my college required vaccines to be in the dorms and K-12 requires many vaccines, I don't see what's special about he COVID shot/s (at least, once more age groups are approved).

Viral diseases are a public health issue, and we aren't truly safe until damn near the entire population is vaccinated. And unfortunately, I feel nothing shy of an institutional mandate will get some of these ****ers to get vaccinated. I also really dislike the "people have a right to health" argument *in this context* because it doesn't apply to a public health issue. Or put another way, until a vaccine is mandated, folks for whom the vaccine is unsafe/ineffective practically do not have a right to health; it's just "oops, you'll get COVID and may even die because people believed in social media and cable news conspiracy theories" for them.
 

Sadib

Time Lord Victorious
99% of deaths now are unvaccinated people. If you're someone who refused a vaccine with no clear medical condition otherwise (Recent organ transplant, pregnancy) and got severly sick or died, I really have no sympathy at this point for you.
Is that statistic accurate? Some people might say that you're being too harsh on anti-vaxxers, but I agree with you. If you chose not to get the vaccine because of some bullshit conspiracy theory, you shouldn't even be allowed in a hospital.
 

Zora

perpetually tired
Is that statistic accurate? Some people might say that you're being too harsh on anti-vaxxers, but I agree with you. If you chose not to get the vaccine because of some bullshit conspiracy theory, you shouldn't even be allowed in a hospital.

An Associated Press analysis of available government data from May shows that “breakthrough” infections in fully vaccinated people accounted for fewer than 1,200 of more than 107,000 COVID-19 hospitalizations. That’s about 1.1%.

And only about 150 of the more than 18,000 COVID-19 deaths in May were in fully vaccinated people. That translates to about 0.8%, or five deaths per day on average.

It's not an exaggeration, 98.9% of hospitalizations 99.2% of deaths--99% to nearest integer--are unvaccinated folks.
 

Sadib

Time Lord Victorious



It's not an exaggeration, 98.9% of hospitalizations 99.2% of deaths--99% to nearest integer--are unvaccinated folks.
Get wrecked, anti-vaxxers!
 

Antiyonder

Overlord
Maybe if not for the reported deaths or refusal to do something as simple as wear a face mask I'd at least believe in there being genuine concerns about the vax safety.

1. But yeah like going with the backlash to wear a mask, I don't see it as being anything more than a variation of say having to turn off a cell phone during movies in theater.

2. Or say having to refrain from smoking in certain buildings or building areas. Making a guess and could be wrong, but I imagine even without being addicted there is some effort in having to refrain from a smoke.


Yeah both examples are disregarded, but I don't think I hear of such policies being deemed as oppression.
 

WishIhadaManafi5

To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before.
Staff member
Moderator
Just putting this here... a thread discussing just how bad the Delta variant is.


It's not directly shot related, but it's very concerning just how very fast this Delta variant is spreading, even at outdoor events.
 

Vernikova

Champion
If they choose to, then I don't see why not. Both groups have a duty to provide a safe working environment.

There will be religious and medical excemptions, so it makes sense to continue to offer work-from-home and online alternatives in addition to testing in schools and work.
 
Profusely yes, barring medical exemptions. I remember my college required vaccines to be in the dorms and K-12 requires many vaccines, I don't see what's special about he COVID shot/s (at least, once more age groups are approved).

Viral diseases are a public health issue, and we aren't truly safe until damn near the entire population is vaccinated. And unfortunately, I feel nothing shy of an institutional mandate will get some of these ****ers to get vaccinated. I also really dislike the "people have a right to health" argument *in this context* because it doesn't apply to a public health issue. Or put another way, until a vaccine is mandated, folks for whom the vaccine is unsafe/ineffective practically do not have a right to health; it's just "oops, you'll get COVID and may even die because people believed in social media and cable news conspiracy theories" for them.

If an unvaccinated person is potentially machine gunning down hundreds of people, then it's a legitimate use of force by the state to mandate vaccinations beyond simply private or public spaces mandating them like schools or businesses.

Get it or go to jail imo.
 

Gamzee Makara

Flirtin' With Disaster
If they choose to, then I don't see why not. Both groups have a duty to provide a safe working environment.

There will be religious and medical excemptions, so it makes sense to continue to offer work-from-home and online alternatives in addition to testing in schools and work.
Religious exemptions?

You can twist ANY sacred text to be antivaxx.

Religious exemptions are bull, and are exploited by anybody with a fear of new, changes or the unknown.

Only beyond Amish people should get that exemption.

If you're going to participate in society and aren't certified(CERTIFICATION BY A GENUINE DOCTOR OF MEDICINE WITH NO PROBLEMATIC HISTORIES ONLY:NO SELF-DIAGNOSES, HOMEOPATHIC CRAP OR OTHER QUACKERY) as having a medical reason not to get the shots, you get the shots. If you refuse, you are subject to taxpayer-funded psychological and psychiatric screening to see why you think you don't want or need to be prevented from becoming a hazmat laboratory for a death plague, among other screenings.
 

bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
Considering we have child deaths from easily preventable diseases rising thousands of percents over the past decade, I think the religious exemptions argument does get less and less effective over time. Otherwise you get to the point where you can just claim a religious exemption for any kind of behavior that has an openly negative effect on other people.
 

bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
They also willingly and openly remove themselves from society, which is a huge aspect of the equation.
 

AshxSatoshi

Ice Aurelia
They also willingly and openly remove themselves from society, which is a huge aspect of the equation.
Not exatctly. They’re permitted to use transportation (buses, trains, planes) in order to travel to see others and go shopping to tend for their needs. Stay exclusively in their communities isn’t a hard requirement and more so an exaggerated assumption.
 

bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
If that is the case they should probably get vaccinated then, considering the time period they think is best had 1 in 5 kids not make it to age 5.
 

Vernikova

Champion
Considering we have child deaths from easily preventable diseases rising thousands of percents over the past decade, I think the religious exemptions argument does get less and less effective over time. Otherwise you get to the point where you can just claim a religious exemption for any kind of behavior that has an openly negative effect on other people.
That sounds suspect. What's the actual number?

Rates of immunization in America have increased by 30% percentage points since 2009 (https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/indicator/quality/immunization-rates/). Children receiving no vaccines of any kind is below 1% as well. I see infant mortality rates have been trending down since the 90s (https://www.healthsystemtracker.org...t-mortality-u-s-compare-countries/#item-start) and that the rate of child mortality (5-9) of the disease is still low (https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D76;jsessionid=6EA5E4E6BB243316416252E587B2). Furthermore, the states that require vaccination for schools with no religious or moral exemptions existing don't appear to have a strong correlation with higher standards of child preventative care (https://www.americashealthrankings....hildren/measure/prevention_children/state/ALL):

California is 32nd.
New York is 30th.
Connecticut is 2nd.
Maine 1st.
Mississippi is 50th.
West Virginia 20th.

Or even vaccination rates among children (https://www.americashealthrankings....men-and-children/measure/Immunize_b/state/ALL):

California: 36th
New York: 41st
Connecticut: 4th
Maine: 20th
Mississippi: 45th
West Virginia: 15th

Considering the the above, what points to religious exemptions being an effective means to stop the rise (if there is a rise) when we consider the increased secularization of the population that has gone on for decades? I see the African American kids a twice as likely to not be vaccinated than any other demographic, which makes sense that low-income individuals are more likely to die during childhood (https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/...le+income~Upper+middle+income~High+income~USA). Childhood death due to disease in American has also fallen from since the 90s in every category (https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/causes-of-death-in-children?country=~USA). It seems clear that, rather than attacking religious liberties or granting the government more power, it would make more sense to increase access to low-income individuals.
 
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