Should saying the Pledge of Allegiance be required?

[Raichu_is_awesome]

I ask you this because of an interesting thing I heard on CNN and The Daily Show with Jon Stewart.

It turns out that a 10-year old kid named Will Phillips refused to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.

He had a sub that week, and each day he refused to stand, and each day she got madder. On about October 9, he said to the sub when she was yelling at him, "With all do respect, ma'am, you can go jump off a bridge." He was sent to the principal's office, and his parents got called up. The principal told them what he said, and told them he had every right to sit down.

Some people are supporting him, and others are calling him a "gaywad", he says it is a term to classify homosexuals. He says, "It is frustrating; that people is being immature."

(On The Daily Show with Jon Stewart, Pro Wrestler Mick Foley says, that he will use you and your small intestines as a human tether ball if you make fun of him. http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-november-19-2009/gaywatch---peter-vadala---william-phillips )

 

[BigLutz]

It isn't required as it already is, that being said the teacher acted wrong here, and the student acted horribly wrong. If he had the problem with the Pledge, then suck it up, do it, and then go talk to your parents after school, if it keeps happening, you suck it up, do it, and continued to talk to your parents, or go talk to a Principal. You how ever do not make a stand in the class room, and you do not tell your teacher, even a sub, to 'Jump off a Bridge' at that point you are acting incredibly stupid.

That being said, when you are 10 and do something to make yourself stand out in the class, expect to be humiliated.

 

[Mandi.]

I don't really care tbh.
IMO I don't think children should be forced to say it, especially if they don't respect the country. That's just really stupid.

Other than that I have nothing else to say really.

 

[Kazekage]

It isn't required as it already is, that being said the teacher acted wrong here, and the student acted horribly wrong. If he had the problem with the Pledge, then suck it up, do it, and then go talk to your parents after school, if it keeps happening, you suck it up, do it, and continued to talk to your parents, or go talk to a Principal. You how ever do not make a stand in the class room, and you do not tell your teacher, even a sub, to 'Jump off a Bridge' at that point you are acting incredibly stupid.

That being said, when you are 10 and do something to make yourself stand out in the class, expect to be humiliated.

This is no means an attack on you, BigLutz

But I hate how patriots are calling this kid immature, and disrespectful. They fail to understand that EVERY change this country experienced, hell the world experienced. Was brought on by Civil Disobedience.

Then again, Gandhi would never tell you to instruct your teacher to jump off a bridge.

 

[raichu2626]

I think its disrespectful but you can't exactly stop the kid. But he's 10 does he really know whats going on.

 

[Kazekage]

I think its disrespectful but you can't exactly stop the kid. But he's 10 does he really know whats going on.

He seems, smart but Socially awkward.

I'm gonna say he has a good idea, but still probably doesn't know the full implications of what he started. Already there is 70-80 students in my school (myself included) who are following his example.

 

[raichu2626]

I just actually read what was in the first post. What the kid said was hilarious about jumping off the bridge.

I just don't get what people get out of not standing?

 

[Swampert_guy]

Though I don't get why the kid wasn't doing the Pledge, he shouldn't be required to. It makes him a commie and subject to my suspicion (joking...), but it's his legal 1st Amendment right. Well... It would be, if he was 18. Minors are really only partly protected by the Constitution.

 

[Forever&Always]

I saw this a few days ago. This kid I think is completely intelligent and one of the most smartest kids alive. He's how old? 10? He has so many correct points. At my school I don't say the pledge. Actually, I make gestures to it.

 

[MrPostman]

A few weeks ago, he refused to take the Pledge of Allegiance at his school so long as gays are treated as second class citizens.

Sounds right to me.

I still wouldn't say it anyways until they take out two certain words that have no business being there.

 

[BigLutz]

This is no means an attack on you, BigLutz

But I hate how patriots are calling this kid immature, and disrespectful. They fail to understand that EVERY change this country experienced, hell the world experienced. Was brought on by Civil Disobedience.

Then again, Gandhi would never tell you to instruct your teacher to jump off a bridge.

I think the kid is immature and disrespectful, but not toward the American Flag or the Pledge of Allegiance, I think he was immature and disrespectful in how he should have handled it. If you are having a problem with a teacher you go to your parents or you go to the Vice Principal or Principal, if it keeps up you continue to go to those people and do what your told in the meantime. Deciding to bring the fight into the middle of the class room by saying "Go jump off a bridge" is stupidity of the highest callabur, because then you give the teacher every right to kick your little butt into detention.

 

[Kazekage]

I think the kid is immature and disrespectful, but not toward the American Flag or the Pledge of Allegiance, I think he was immature and disrespectful in how he should have handled it. If you are having a problem with a teacher you go to your parents or you go to the Vice Principal or Principal, if it keeps up you continue to go to those people and do what your told in the meantime. Deciding to bring the fight into the middle of the class room by saying "Go jump off a bridge" is stupidity of the highest callabur, because then you give the teacher every right to kick your little butt into detention.

All true, but have you seen this kid? This can't have been the first time he was picked on, I highly doubt that he would want to add "Tattle-Tale" to his already burgeoning list of "Four-eyes" and such.

Children who are picked on never go to an authority figure, I was one of them, and he was quiet the first few days she was telling him to stand, on one day he just lost it.

He is after all only 10, can you really blame him for losing his temper?

 

[BigLutz]

All true, but have you seen this kid? This can't have been the first time he was picked on, I highly doubt that he would want to add "Tattle-Tale" to his already burgeoning list of "Four-eyes" and such.

Children who are picked on never go to an authority figure, I was one of them, and he was quiet the first few days she was telling him to stand, on one day he just lost it.

He is after all only 10, can you really blame him for losing his temper?

Mind you I was picked on as well in elementary school, both by kids and by one or two teachers as well. If a teacher is telling you to do something and you feel uncomfortable doing it, you do it for that occasion and then get some grown up help. This kid isn't a idiot, he seems to have some brains as he was able to decide to make a stand. He should also know that if you wish to make a stand you do need to explain it to the teacher in private, and if that doesn't work explain it to your parents or the principal.

Even six year olds know that you do not talk back to your teacher like he did.

 

[Alpha Gamer]

It should be a choice, not a requirement.

 

[CSolarstorm]

That being said, when you are 10 and do something to make yourself stand out in the class, expect to be humiliated.

I have refused to say the Pledge of Alligience myself since about 12...it's been 9 years. I have an alibi though, I'm in a wheelchair and can't stand up, so people notice it less.

LOL at you connecting being humiliated with standing out, I can't pin a time in my life where I haven't ever stood out in some way. That being said, the boy was being overdramatic telling his teacher to jump off a bridge. I mean, the cause is honesty over whether gay people can marry or not. Not exactly worth the sentiment. He definately deserved to go the principal for that.

Civil disobedience for one's beliefs at any age is great, but threats or ill wishes, not acceptable. The point is non-violence. Gandhi or Martin Luther King wouldn't have advocated it. XD

 

[raichu2626]

I don't get how a 10 year old cares about gay rights. What grade is that 4th? I don't even know if I knew anything about gay rights back then.

 

[GrizzlyB]

Fundamentally speaking, I'm kinda split on whether or not saying the Pledge of Allegiance should be required or not. On the one hand, legitimately requiring it does sound pretty totalitarian and all that, but on the other, if you're not willing to stand up and recite a fifteen-second phrase at most once a day for a country which ensures you freedoms and opportunities only dreamed of in most of the rest of the world, I'm curious as to why you're still here and I honestly believe that you should just get the fuck out. And I really do mean that last part, because unless you're willing to go that far, your little protest truly is meaningless rhetoric.

As for the kid the OP mentions in the first post, I took the liberty of finding the actual CNN interview, and after watching it, I think I can safely assume that this kid is a bit of a nitwit, and surely a rebel without a cause who clearly doesn't understand the issues. This is probably my favorite tidbit from the interview:

Anchor: A same sex marriage initiative was put to the test, put to the voters, in the state of Maine, and in every state across the nation where it has been put to the voters, it has gone down to defeat. So, the democratic process is taking place here, seems to be something that voters at large do not support, so what will it take for you you return to saying the pledge?
Will: For there to truly be liberty and justice for all.
Anchor: And what does that entail?
Will: [pause] That entails everyone being able to marry.

You guys are right. He clearly knows the issues inside and out, and has a sound grasp on liberty.

Also, as somewhat of an aside, I would like to point out how this kid conducts the interview, specifically, how he peppers it with big words he obviously doesn't know very well. While he is a ten-year old and shouldn't be expected to, of course, the fact that he tries so often gives me a very pseudo-intellectual vibe about him, and five bucks says he's this way in the classroom as well, and if he is, I'm sure he's very condescending to his classmates, and this was most likely initially done in an attempt to sound smart to them by bringing up "the issues", which they, being ten-year olds, wouldn't understand. And maybe I'm the only person who feels this way, but it's really what I'm getting from him, in just about all of his behaviors. Additionally, I'd like to thank the OP for confirming to me that Jon Stewart is not funny, as a friend of mine was telling me to watch The Daily Show just the other day, and instead of wasting a half hour, I wasted only five watching him. Seriously, the original interview was way funnier than his thing. You'd also think he'd be above threatening elementary schoolchildren with professional fighters, but I guess not.

 

[CSolarstorm]

Fundamentally speaking, I'm kinda split on whether or not saying the Pledge of Allegiance should be required or not. On the one hand, legitimately requiring it does sound pretty totalitarian and all that, but on the other, if you're not willing to stand up and recite a fifteen-second phrase at most once a day for a country which ensures you freedoms and opportunities only dreamed of in most of the rest of the world, I'm curious as to why you're still here and I honestly believe that you should just get the fu]/font]ck out. And I really do mean that last part, because unless you're willing to go that far, your little protest truly is meaningless rhetoric.

I think your demand, and the emphasis you put on it is a little uncalled for though. What does that fifteen-second phrase have to do with supporting this "country which ensures you freedoms and opportunities" etc? The recital is not recieved, appreciated by anyone nor does it benefit anyone. The flag won't benefit from emotional investment. It's technically praying to an idol. It's only an exercise of loyalty for your own mind - it's not like the star-spangled banner is going to turn around and say, "You're welcome for all the liberties!" This demand that "okay your country gives you freedom and opportunity like no other, the least you can do is recite this pledge" is really a non-sequitor, it shows an emotional compulsion to do something to please "America" which in this case is abstract and has nothing to do with the community in which the person pledging is actually living in. And the point of the flag in the first place, is freedom. The point of winning independance from England is independance from royalty, and isn't saying a pledge to such an icon and exercise in making the government seem like it's royal, and not democratic? The Pledge of Alligience really has nothing to do with the pragmatism and democracy that really makes the United States great in the first place. In fact, it was invented in an imperialistic era where the United States government was acting like royalty, conquering and swaggering itself over other nations. I can't help remembering that blurb in my history book about the choir of Japanese kids saying the Pledge of Alligiance to Roosevelt. I'm sorry, but the Pledge of Alligience about ego, not the principles of the U.S....

 

[Bossk]

The Pledge of Allegiance supposabley shows your respect for the country. I guess every morning in school standing up and saying it isn't a big deal.

But in all honestly, it doesn't. Your just one out of mostly all the Americans out there saying some blurb of words to an inanimate flag waving there. The flag represents the country, but that's all I can see it does.

Kids saying the Pledge of Allegiance has no effect on anything, but I guess it would be a nice guester if it meant something

 

[GrizzlyB]

I think your demand, and the emphasis you put on it is a little uncalled for though. What does that fifteen-second phrase have to do with supporting this "country which ensures you freedoms and opportunities" etc? The recital is not recieved, appreciated by anyone nor does it benefit anyone. The flag won't benefit from emotional investment. It's technically praying to an idol. It's only an exercise of loyalty for your own mind - it's not like the star-spangled banner is going to turn around and say, "You're welcome for all the liberties!" This demand that "okay your country gives you freedom and opportunity like no other, the least you can do is recite this pledge" is really a non-sequitor, it shows an emotional compulsion to do something to please "America" which in this case is abstract and has nothing to do with the community in which the person pledging is actually living in. And the point of the flag in the first place, is freedom. The point of winning independance from England is independance from royalty, and isn't saying a pledge to such an icon and exercise in making the government seem like it's royal, and not democratic? The Pledge of Alligience really has nothing to do with the pragmatism and democracy that really makes the United States great in the first place. In fact, it was invented in an imperialistic era where the United States government was acting like royalty, conquering and swaggering itself over other nations. I can't help remembering that blurb in my history book about the choir of Japanese kids saying the Pledge of Alligiance to Roosevelt. I'm sorry, but the Pledge of Alligience about ego, not the principles of the U.S....

To me, it's an expression of gratitude as much as anything else, really. The fact that people are unwilling to stand up to give a short thanks, as it were, for living in a country where they can do most whatever they want and live in fear of virtually nothing, is simply baffling. If you could do the same to have a roof over your head or food to eat, you'd do it then, wouldn't you? This is nearly the same thing, only people don't feel it nearly as directly, especially since it is the lifestyle to which they've become accustomed, so they've grown complacent in appreciating it. Also, I don't recall me mentioning, nor ever even hearing anywhere, that the flag is any sort of idol, or wants the Pledge for itself (unless you'd consider it an idol for being symbolic of the country as a whole; I don't, and it definitely sounds less strange than pledging to a map or something). Anyway, the point I'm trying to get at is that the Pledge is a means of demonstrating that you appreciate your country. What was it John F. Kennedy said, again? "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."? In my opinion, the least people can do for their country is demonstrate their love for it by reciting the Pledge when so obliged. It is symbolic, if that's all you were trying to get at, but I mean, seriously, at the least, if you're willing to stand up and place your hand over your heart for fifteen seconds, it shows that you don't take your country completely for granted.