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Should saying the Pledge of Allegiance be required?
- Thread starter Raichu_is_awesome
- Start date
Ours is a nation founded on the notion of: "When all else fails, at least you've still got irony."
And I will pledge my allegiance to some good irony any day.
I remember in high school English, if you were ever asked you know, "how is the author doing this" and you have no clue whatsoever as to what the answer is, you can talk about irony, because chances are it's right. In an equally ironic sense, of course.
SBaby
Dungeon Master
Ironically, that works for alot of fanfics too.
Personally, I don't think the pledge needs to be be REQUIRED any more than supporting the government needs to be (if anything, I'd rather people be LESS supportive of the government, so that another revolution can happen all the more quickly). But at the same time, I don't think they should complain about certain parts of it either when there are people that WANT to say it.
It's not so much agreeing with the current leaders of the country right now.
For me, it's the simple fact that the pledge is a lie. There is not liberty and justice for all. The pledge has been warped from its original form to say the entire country supports a specific god, when our country is supposed to a secular, non-religious entity.
I can't say that pledge and mean it. So what's the point of saying it?
Has anyone considered the amount of diversity in our country? There are so many different religions and beliefs, so many people native to other countries. Everyone who wants to show their loyalty to America can show it by reciting the Pledge of Alligiance. But don't go getting angry with people for having their own opinions and choosing to do differently. Please. For all you know, their loyalty is elsewhere.
tyranitar90
UP THE IRONS
the pledge of allegiance is dumb, but being a pledge, it should only be done once. also that under god part is dumb since we all don't believe in the same one, if we have one at all.
SulkingSableye
Hmm....
Nationalism is its own religion. The flag is just about as equal to Nationalist as the cross is to so called "Christians". People complain so much about religious fanatics, but those that insist that anyone should participate in the Pledge are just as narrowminded. Not everyone in the US give their allegiance to its government. Isn't freedom of religion part of the first amendment? :/
Dispite the fact that I don't salute the flag, I do believe that it deserves respect. I would never do anything to dishoner it.
Dispite the fact that I don't salute the flag, I do believe that it deserves respect. I would never do anything to dishoner it.
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The thing is, the pledge doesn't stand for the values of our country. It stands for the values of an idealistic country that never existed. People can preach about freedom and respect all they want, but until the things the pledge promises exist, there's no reason to say it. Repeating something over and over doesn't make it any more true.
blackness777
Well-Known Member
I think that you should only NOT say it if you don't beleive in the same god as somebody else, i.e. a Jewish person. My teacher brought up this point last year and I think that it was unnecisary to say "Go jump off a bridge". Would he have told his actual teacher that, and why just that one day, and the the first day he ever had to say it?
And P.S. I'm not afraid of no wrestler
And P.S. I'm not afraid of no wrestler
I may not be American, but in Canada we still had the national anthem everyday in school. I don't think it should be mandatory to say any sort of pledge on a daily basis unless you want to.
Psychologically, kids will rebel against what they are forced to do. While the pledge may be an attempt to make kids patriotic, it also gives them means for anarchy and a motive to despise something that means alot to other people.
Psychologically, kids will rebel against what they are forced to do. While the pledge may be an attempt to make kids patriotic, it also gives them means for anarchy and a motive to despise something that means alot to other people.
Vermehlo_Steele
Grand Arbiter II
I'm not American, but can't you just have the Pledge recitals for special occasions and ceremonies to give it more solemnity and to avoid repitition and mockery?
cannibaleyes
Holier Than Thou
I kind of agree with what someone said on the first page, about the kid's response to the teacher being out of line, and kids that say something like that to a teacher should be punished. Then again, the kid was 10, so it's somewhat excusable.
As to the Pledge itself, I think it should be optional.
Gee, I can't even remember the last time I said the Pledge of Allegiance. However, I do remember it being said every day in elementary school, at least.. And back then, even though it wasn't, like, a law, to say it, I always thought that it was mandatory, so I said it. And I never really thought about what it meant or stood for; it was more like just something I HAD to do because was told. It didn't bother me then, so I just did it.
Now that I'm older, I would probably have some qualms about saying it.
Oh, the irony... I suppose it is rather amusing, sometimes. XD
Perhaps I'm a bit unpatriotic, but I liken patriotism to religion. Both can be beneficial to some people... But more often than not, they tend to blind people if they don't take a step back and think for themselves every once and a while.
As to the Pledge itself, I think it should be optional.
Gee, I can't even remember the last time I said the Pledge of Allegiance. However, I do remember it being said every day in elementary school, at least.. And back then, even though it wasn't, like, a law, to say it, I always thought that it was mandatory, so I said it. And I never really thought about what it meant or stood for; it was more like just something I HAD to do because was told. It didn't bother me then, so I just did it.
Now that I'm older, I would probably have some qualms about saying it.
This is a good point. The Pledge is more a representation of what our country wants to be, not what it actually is.
Oh, the irony... I suppose it is rather amusing, sometimes. XD
Perhaps I'm a bit unpatriotic, but I liken patriotism to religion. Both can be beneficial to some people... But more often than not, they tend to blind people if they don't take a step back and think for themselves every once and a while.
But it is true. The only issue that anyone can bring up off the top of their head is gay marriage concerning the equality part of the pledge. I'm not saying you should be forced to say the pledge, but the notion that you shouldn't say it because America is actually a "backwards fascist nation." compared to the bastion of "moral and social progressiveness." that is Europe is simply ridiculous.
People like to cherry pick things like gay marriage but pay zero attention to things like privacy rights that are much stronger and defined than many modern nations and various other legal privelidges.
At no point did I say america was a "backwards fascist nation," and I also never said that Europe was any better. If you could refrain from putting words in my mouth, I'd appreciate it. Bluntly, if the only issue people can think of is gay marriage, they either aren't looking hard enough or aren't thinking hard enough. For one thing, women usually don't get equal pay for men in the same position. Affirmative action is still around. Equality is a concept that the US still isn't near reaching.
Saying a pledge to a flag that doesn't receive, respond to, or benefit from compliments is nothing but an authoritarian tactic. There are legitimate reasons we have safeguards against sedition; claiming allegiance to the flag and all that it stands for is not a meaningful safeguard. A proper safeguard is nothing without deterrence; anybody can say anything.
Living in the country is an agreement to abide by its laws, not saying a pledge. Furthermore, since it doesn't maliciously harm anyone to not say the pledge of allegiance (cannot cause libel), freedom of speech as defined in the First Amendment allows this. Then there is the moral issue of saying something that one doesn't truly believe is true. In any case, the defined, lawful responsibility of a citizen does not include support of everything that the government does; in fact, the ability to redress the government is one of the signs of a good, informed citizen.
Living in the country is an agreement to abide by its laws, not saying a pledge. Furthermore, since it doesn't maliciously harm anyone to not say the pledge of allegiance (cannot cause libel), freedom of speech as defined in the First Amendment allows this. Then there is the moral issue of saying something that one doesn't truly believe is true. In any case, the defined, lawful responsibility of a citizen does not include support of everything that the government does; in fact, the ability to redress the government is one of the signs of a good, informed citizen.
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