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Should there have been a female companion who challenged Gyms like Ash?

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Leonhart

Imagineer
XY Rules said:
Contests weren’t feminine. Plenty of guys competed in them (including Ash on multiple occasions). And some even won them...Heck, the first Grand Festival winner was a guy. It was also a battle based goal, just with extra factors to it.

I wouldn't call them feminine either, but I thought there were a larger number of notable female Pokemon Coordinators compared to male ones. Shuu and Harley aside, most of the male Coordinators that we did see were minor characters like Robert, Kimimaro, and Ogata.
 

Aduro

Mt.BtlMaster
I think it would get repetitive to have a main character with the same goal as Ash battle the same opponent twice every time. Even if that did mean that gym leaders got more character development. If they want to show two characters going at the same opponent in a different way, that's what rivals are for.

I'd rather a companion has a structured and regular goal that had some battling content but some niche to keep them different. Like contests, or racing.
 

XY Rules

Pokemon Master
It is pretty likely the creators though Contests were feminine, especially compared to battles. The focus on style and appearance are usually considered feminine traits, that's why two girl companions have that as main goal (and Serena plans to participate in Contests at the end of XY).

Of course, Showcases take it to another level, but Contests were likely considered the "feminine version" of battles.

This is a very outdated stereotype and was even at the times of AG and DP. Again, if contests were intended to be feminine, there wouldn’t have been any guys competing. Of course there were feminine guys competing like Harley, but there were also those like Drew and Kenny. And at the same time there were tomboy girls like Zoey.

Due to that, contests most certainly can’t be considered as something that is strictly feminine, like showcases are. Not even if you try to string it as “the feminine version of battling”. Because that analogy just doesn’t work. Considering the fact that it’s less about being pretty and more about ingenuity and the way you use your Pokemon. This is why Jessie was still able to win them with some of the ugliest Pokemon.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
Aduro said:
If they want to show two characters going at the same opponent in a different way, that's what rivals are for.

Even when it came to rivals having the same Gym goal as Satoshi, I wasn't that pleased when the writers showed Shinji's battle against Hyouta in early DP because it seemed like a waste of time to me, so I probably wouldn't have liked to see him battle at the other seven Shinou Gyms, or seen Hikari battle at all the Gyms back then either.
 

Konja7

Well-Known Member
This is a very outdated stereotype and was even at the times of AG and DP. Again, if contests were intended to be feminine, there wouldn’t have been any guys competing. Of course there were feminine guys competing like Harley, but there were also those like Drew and Kenny. And at the same time there were tomboy girls like Zoey.

Due to that, contests most certainly can’t be considered as something that is strictly feminine, like showcases are. Not even if you try to string it as “the feminine version of battling”. Because that analogy just doesn’t work. Considering the fact that it’s less about being pretty and more about ingenuity and the way you use your Pokemon. This is why Jessie was still able to win them with some of the ugliest Pokemon.

I don't find Contests extremely feminine either (especially compared to Showcases).

However, I think the creators probably believe Contests were the feminine version of battles. Maybe it an oudated idea, but I think that's the idea they had.

Contests had aspects that are considered "traditionally attractive" for girls. For example: In Sinnoh Contests, trainers wear fancy clothes.
 
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AznKei

Dawn & Chloe by ddangbi
Wouldn't be cool if the anime has 2 versions like in the games, where one version is Ash as the main character while the other one is a female protagonist, both challenging gyms?

If it requires more work for the animations they could stick with the same companions, gym leaders & COTDs along with their Pokemons and animations and replace everything that involves the protagonists and their Pokemons.
 

shoz999

Back when Tigers used to smoke.
Never say never, but if it does happen, a lot of you will probably have grand kids by then lol.

I used to think yes but it would be really difficult to center the spotlight on 2 main characters with the same goal so I don't think it's a good idea to have 2 or more main characters with the same goal. It would end up with the protagonist getting all the victories and the other main character getting Ls left and right to just make the protagonist look better and stronger. I wouldn't enjoy that, so no. The anime should better focus on giving every main character a goal instead of having other companions with the same goal to the protagonist.
No. No it isn't. Pokemon Adventures manage to accomplish that on a constant basis every generation, delivering a new array of main characters in the spotlight under tight deadlines. If anything, I'm kind of puzzled why it took this long for the Pokemon anime to finally put two lead characters in the spotlight. Considering how the anime ignores the games almost entirely for more creative freedom in the writing of their episodes, it should be even easier for them to put two main characters in the spotlight than the manga could.
 

Jeal

Well-Known Member
Never say never, but if it does happen, a lot of you will probably have grand kids by then lol.


No. No it isn't. Pokemon Adventures manage to accomplish that on a constant basis every generation, delivering a new array of main characters in the spotlight under tight deadlines. If anything, I'm kind of puzzled why it took this long for the Pokemon anime to finally put two lead characters in the spotlight. Considering how the anime ignores the games almost entirely for more creative freedom in the writing of their episodes, it should be even easier for them to put two main characters in the spotlight than the manga could.
That's not what he / she said. He/She is talking about two characters having the same goal.
 

shoz999

Back when Tigers used to smoke.
No, it would be repetitive.
It's not impossible, you can keep it refreshing by splitting the companions path from time to time, and as seen in the manga which has to work with tighter constraints, not just in the past but this current generation as we speak, the focus on two characters having the same goal being interesting is not only possible but can be potentially good and memorable. How the manga handles this is that you can make things interesting by giving both protagonist more than one goal instead of leaving that same goal as the only goal, give them a multitude of other goals to further explore their character. For example, let's say the first anime explored Gary Oak as a main character/companion and they decided to not only explore his goal as a Gym Challenger which he shares with Ash but his aspirations to be a Pokemon professor. It can work.
 

Jeal

Well-Known Member
It's not impossible, you can keep it refreshing by splitting the companions path from time to time, and as seen in the manga which has to work with tighter constraints, not just in the past but this current generation as we speak, the focus on two characters having the same goal being interesting is not only possible but can be potentially good and memorable. How the manga handles this is that you can make things interesting by giving both protagonist more than one goal instead of leaving that same goal as the only goal, give them a multitude of other goals to further explore their character. For example, let's say the first anime explored Gary Oak as a main character/companion and they decided to not only explore his goal as a Gym Challenger which he shares with Ash but his aspirations to be a Pokemon professor. It can work.
There's no reason for companions to split paths, even more if they have the same goal.

I know nothing about the current Adventures arc, but past arcs never had two characters with the same goal sharing the spotlight.
 

shoz999

Back when Tigers used to smoke.
There's no reason for companions to split paths, even more if they have the same goal.

I know nothing about the current Adventures arc, but past arcs never had two characters with the same goal sharing the spotlight.
There is a reason if the writer can think of one. That's the job of a writer, to plot things out for a desire goal in mind. This is a common feature that happens in Pokemon Adventures among nearly all the companion groups, often trying to reach two or more locations when what little time they have demands it. In fact, there are discussions over how the SwSh arc could be handled and one idea I suggested based on this common occurrence is that manga counterparts to Victor and Gloria for whatever reason could split their paths by Hammerlocke City. After that, they could battle the 5th and 6th gym leaders and when they go to the other cities neighboring Hammerlocke, they would battle the other 5th and 6th Gym leader again only this time it would not be Bea & Melony, but Allister & Gordie due to a change in Gym Leaders. Going back to what you said previously, this would not necessarily be repetitive but open up a whole new host of story ideas for the anime.

As for past arcs. Yes they have. The Gen 1 arc features three protagonists who each share a same goal, but perhaps your thinking of something more like as a traveling group right? Then look no further than the XY arc. And even if you say that doesn't count because the goal is not a gym challenge, it's still proof that having the same goal among companions isn't as repetitive as one thinks. So let's go back to the original topic, can two characters having the same goal be interesting or maybe in yours and the other person's case, can two characters who travel together having the same goal be interesting and based on everything I've said in the past, yes.

Never say never. If someone said that Ash would finally be sharing the spotlight with not simply just a main character but a fellow leading main character where they travel across the eight regions years ago, one would think there's no reason for Ash to travel that way, just as you said there's no reason for companions to split paths.
 

Jeal

Well-Known Member
There is a reason if the writer can think of one. That's the job of a writer, to plot things out for a desire goal in mind. This is a common feature that happens in Pokemon Adventures among nearly all the companion groups, often trying to reach two or more locations when what little time they have demands it. In fact, there are discussions over how the SwSh arc could be handled and one idea I suggested based on this common occurrence is that manga counterparts to Victor and Gloria for whatever reason could split their paths by Hammerlocke City. After that, they could battle the 5th and 6th gym leaders and when they go to the other cities neighboring Hammerlocke, they would battle the other 5th and 6th Gym leader again only this time it would not be Bea & Melony, but Allister & Gordie due to a change in Gym Leaders. Going back to what you said previously, this would not necessarily be repetitive but open up a whole new host of story ideas for the anime.

As for past arcs. Yes they have. The Gen 1 arc features three protagonists who each share a same goal, but perhaps your thinking of something more like as a traveling group right? Then look no further than the XY arc. And even if you say that doesn't count because the goal is not a gym challenge, it's still proof that having the same goal among companions isn't as repetitive as one thinks. So let's go back to the original topic, can two characters having the same goal be interesting or maybe in yours and the other person's case, can two characters who travel together having the same goal be interesting and based on everything I've said in the past, yes.

Never say never. If someone said that Ash would finally be sharing the spotlight with not simply just a main character but a fellow leading main character where they travel across the eight regions years ago, one would think there's no reason for Ash to travel that way, just as you said there's no reason for companions to split paths.
No. The anime doesn't work like that. They don't will skip Ash's gym battles like the manga for example. They will show every single one of them.

We are talking about goals like Gyms and Contests, not whatever the XY group did(I didn't read it). They don't count.
 

shoz999

Back when Tigers used to smoke.
No. The anime doesn't work like that. They don't will skip Ash's gym battles like the manga for example. They will show every single one of them.

We are talking about goals like Gyms and Contests, not whatever the XY group did(I didn't read it). They don't count.
Okay, I'll give you that about Ash's gym battles adding a bit more difficulty since Ash still has to be the star but my point still stands. Two or even more companions having the same goal isn't as repetitive as one thinks, it can work depending on the execution.
 

Konja7

Well-Known Member
No. The anime doesn't work like that. They don't will skip Ash's gym battles like the manga for example. They will show every single one of them.

We are talking about goals like Gyms and Contests, not whatever the XY group did(I didn't read it). They don't count.
Yeah. XYZ group's goal in the manga doesn't really count for this discussion, since it is a general goal where each one is going to do and contribute different things.

In a goal like Gyms Challenges, the two characters will have to battle the same Gyms.



Okay, I'll give you that about Ash's gym battles adding a bit more difficulty since Ash still has to be the star but my point still stands. Two or even more companions having the same goal isn't as repetitive as one thinks, it can work depending on the execution.
However, the execution will require that the characters are separated or that battles are skipped (which will never be Ash battles).
 
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nickdt

Well-Known Member
They should have done it this series. Perfect time for that.
Have Ash do the World Championships
Goh mindlessely chucking Pokeballs
Koharu challenging the gyms
 
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