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Single Rates - READ THE FIRST POST

varanus_komodoensis

they call me Varanus
What's a good ev spread for a quiet honedge? (soon to be aegislash once its ev trained/leveled). And would this moveset be ok for it?

Shiny Aegislash@assault vest? (already have a mon holding leftovers in my battle team)
Nature: Quiet
IVs: 31/31/0/31/31/31
-Shadow Ball
-Flash Cannon
-Kings Shield
-Sacred Sword/Shadow Sneak?

I'm thinking 252 SpA/252 Spd/6 Hp for the EV spread but I don't know if I should spread the EVs around more. So basically this was an unexpected shiny hatch (was breeding for a normal competitive honedge when the shiny one hatched) and I've decided to add it to my wifi battle team. My current battle team is under reconstruction and so far 4 mons have been decided on. Shadow ball will be the primary attack that I use and it gets stab. Flash cannon gets stab and also gives me a move that will kill fairy's, which is good since none of my other 4 team members know any steel or poison type moves. Kings shield because it seems to be a staple of any aegislash moveset (I've never used one before). I'm thinking about sacred sword as the last move because so far I don't have any fighting type moves in my wifi team, but I don't know if shadow sneak would be better to have.

You have a good set going on here for Aegislash, but Aegislash does not benefit at all from Speed investment. Aegislash typically is a Special or Mixed set, which Quiet nature benefits. Aegislash needs all of the defense investment it can get, but it's already so slow that it doesn't benefit from Speed. Because Aegislash is slow, it needs Shadow Sneak as a priority move to finish off opponents when you are both low on health. Finally, I've never tried Assault Vest on Aegislash, but it gets more use out of Leftovers or Weakness Policy. You can try Assault Vest but I think you'll find that Weakness Policy is better on it because your opponent will suffer greatly from the mistake of using a super-effective move against you in Shield Forme. Also, you cannot use King's Shield while holding an Assault Vest, which means that you will never be able to enter Shield Forme. This is a huge disadvantage to Aegislash because you lose out on a Protect that lowers the opponent's Attack.

A typical Quiet Aegislash looks like this:

Aegislash @ Leftovers/Weakness Policy
Quiet
Stance Change
31/31/31/31/31/x

244 HP/12 Def/252 SpAtk

Shadow Ball
Flash Cannon/Sacred Sword
King's Shield
Shadow Sneak
 
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Ryuken

Steel User
What's a good ev spread for a quiet honedge? (soon to be aegislash once its ev trained/leveled). And would this moveset be ok for it?

Shiny Aegislash@assault vest? (already have a mon holding leftovers in my battle team)
Nature: Quiet
IVs: 31/31/0/31/31/31
-Shadow Ball
-Flash Cannon
-Kings Shield
-Sacred Sword/Shadow Sneak?

I'm thinking 252 SpA/252 Spd/6 Hp for the EV spread but I don't know if I should spread the EVs around more. So basically this was an unexpected shiny hatch (was breeding for a normal competitive honedge when the shiny one hatched) and I've decided to add it to my wifi battle team. My current battle team is under reconstruction and so far 4 mons have been decided on. Shadow ball will be the primary attack that I use and it gets stab. Flash cannon gets stab and also gives me a move that will kill fairy's, which is good since none of my other 4 team members know any steel or poison type moves. Kings shield because it seems to be a staple of any aegislash moveset (I've never used one before). I'm thinking about sacred sword as the last move because so far I don't have any fighting type moves in my wifi team, but I don't know if shadow sneak would be better to have.

This is your biggest issue with this moveset:
Aegislash cannot use king's shield while using an assault vest.
By loosing king's shield, you are missing on one of the best things about aegislash, mind games.
It might be better of to use a life orb set, or even a choice specs instead if you are planning on not using King's shield at all.
Also, giving speed investment to Aegislash is not a good idea, it will make it hit faster than slower threats and you will beoften hit in Sword form.
 

Rocxidi

The Jim Reaper
Trying to make a set for Weavile without Knock Off because I don't hack. This happened:

Weavile @ Icicle Plate/Dread Plate
Ability: Pickpocket
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Fling
- Ice Punch
- Ice Shard/Power-Up-Punch/Brick Break/Night Slash

While all the boys are spamming Knock Off in Pokemon Showdown, I decided I was too lazy to get a copy of Black 2 / White 2 and hack/RNG for Wi-Fi battles. So I built this set.

Swords Dance is that one move no one uses because stuff like Mandibuzz and Aegislash (lol) stop sweeps. Fling gets Base 90 Power + STAB and a slight boost if Dread Plate. Ice Punch activates your ability, and Ice Shard gets priority, while Power Up Punch deals with Bisharp and other Weavile. Brick Break for stronger Fighting coverage and Night Slash in case you can't use Fling. I have no idea what tier Weavile is in, but I'm planning on using it in OU in the near future for reasons that don't concern you.
 
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varanus_komodoensis

they call me Varanus
Trying to make a set for Weavile without Knock Off because I don't hack. This happened:

Weavile @ Icicle Plate/Dread Plate
Ability: Pickpocket
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Fling
- Ice Punch
- Ice Shard/Power-Up-Punch

While all the boys are spamming Knock Off in Pokemon Showdown, I decided I was too lazy to get a copy of Black 2 / White 2 and hack/RNG for Wi-Fi battles. So I built this set.

Swords Dance is that one move no one uses because stuff like Mandibuzz and Aegislash (lol) stop sweeps. Fling gets Base 90 Power + STAB and a slight boost if Dread Plate. Ice Punch activates your ability, and Ice Shard gets priority, while Power Up Punch deals with Bisharp and other Weavile. I have no idea what tier Weavile is in, but I'm planning on using it in OU in the near future for reasons that don't concern you.

With the buff to Knock Off, the fact that Weavile gets STAB from it, and that that damage can be increased even more with Choice Band, Life Orb, or Dread Plate, Weavile really needs Knock Off to be viable. Your Weavile will suffer greatly without it, but I see what you're doing here: Fling + Pickpocket is pretty clever and will be fun to use. There are two issues that I think you'll find with this set, though: First, Knock Off is obviously better because it takes only one turn to get rid of the opponent's item and do damage at the same time. Fling + Pickpocket takes two turns to get rid of the item and do damage. And second: Weavile is so frail that I really doubt you'll get a chance to Pickpocket more than one item from the opponent, and if you do, Fling doesn't do a whole lot of damage. The problem that Weavile has with this set is its frailty. It's better for Weavile to hold Choice Band or Life Orb to get as much damage off as it can before it dies.

if you want to make a Weavile set without Knock Off and you want to try out PickPocket/Fling, I think your set is pretty good for that. What I would personally do is get another Knock Off user and just use Weavile for pure power with no transfer moves with a set like this:

Weavile @ Life Orb
Jolly
Pressure
252 Atk/252 Spe/4 Def

Icicile Crash
Ice Shard
Poison Jab
Night Slash

Substitute/Protect/Pressure is also a viable set to stall out high-power/low PP moves like Close Combat on Pokemon slower than Weavile, but Mach Punch will kill you.
 

Rocxidi

The Jim Reaper
With the buff to Knock Off, the fact that Weavile gets STAB from it, and that that damage can be increased even more with Choice Band, Life Orb, or Dread Plate, Weavile really needs Knock Off to be viable. Your Weavile will suffer greatly without it, but I see what you're doing here: Fling + Pickpocket is pretty clever and will be fun to use. There are two issues that I think you'll find with this set, though: First, Knock Off is obviously better because it takes only one turn to get rid of the opponent's item and do damage at the same time. Fling + Pickpocket takes two turns to get rid of the item and do damage. And second: Weavile is so frail that I really doubt you'll get a chance to Pickpocket more than one item from the opponent, and if you do, Fling doesn't do a whole lot of damage. The problem that Weavile has with this set is its frailty. It's better for Weavile to hold Choice Band or Life Orb to get as much damage off as it can before it dies.

if you want to make a Weavile set without Knock Off and you want to try out PickPocket/Fling, I think your set is pretty good for that. What I would personally do is get another Knock Off user and just use Weavile for pure power with no transfer moves with a set like this:

Weavile @ Life Orb
Jolly
Pressure
252 Atk/252 Spe/4 Def

Icicile Crash
Ice Shard
Poison Jab
Night Slash

Substitute/Protect/Pressure is also a viable set to stall out high-power/low PP moves like Close Combat on Pokemon slower than Weavile, but Mach Punch will kill you.

Thanks! Truth is, I love utilizing Dual Screens to buff up Pokemon, which is why Swords Dance is there, giving Pokemon like Weavile a better chance at taking a x2 move and boost. Also, I was told that "Knock Off is mandatory on Bisharp" once, yet Brick Break ruined lives very often...

Weavile is a cool Pokemon, getting Dark/Fighting coverage, or perfect coverage before XY. On top of that, lower tier Fairies and Hawlucha get rekt by STAB Ice. I'm gonna do some tweaks in case anyone wishes to comment...
 
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Cipher

Nothing to be done
I'm trying out a couple ways to deal with Substitue Aegislash for my Rotation team. One of them is Inflitrator Spiritomb. Looking at the following set:

Spiritomb @ Sitrus Berry
Nature: Bold
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 HP, 100 Def, 156 SpD (some physical bulk with Bold + EVs, but more on the special side to fearlessly switch into Shadow Balls; unfortunately it's not outspeeding either Aegislash or Mawile without some serious speed investment)
-Calm Mind
-Dark Pulse
-Rest
-Sleep Talk

Couple of things here: While this is mainly for Aegislash, I was thinking RestTalking CM Spiritomb could do a bit of all-purpose damage. Most of the time I plan to have it running under dual screen support. Nothing is immune to Dark, so while the set is setup fodder in Singles, I thiiiiink it might be a bit more all-purpose in Rotation.

Other options: I've considered Will-o-Wisp and/or Pain Split as well, which could replace RestTalk together. Also not sure on the item. I could go with Chesto Berry for a free Rest, or, thinking that it can't really choose a bad move while asleep, I could just go with Sitrus for prolonged longevity while Calm Minding, or even Black Glasses since its only attacking move is Dark. I could also get really crazy and go with one of the other pinch berries or Brightpowder/Lax Incense (which, IMO, have some use on bulky Pokemon). Assuming I don't care about being asleep, that item slot is pretty flexible.

Thoughts on this? Anyone run one of these before? Also open to alternate EV spreads.

Also breeding an Infiltrator Chandelure, which I think might work better, but I'm far enough along with this one to want to try it out.
 
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Onyx Tanuki

Ma! There's a weird 'nuki in the yahd!
lilligant.gif

Lilligant @ Miracle Seed/Life Orb
Own Tempo
Modest
4 HP, 252 SpAtt, 252 Speed
- Petal Dance
- Hidden Power [Fire/Ground/Ice/Rock]/Giga Drain
- Sleep Powder
- Quiver Dance

Lilligant is... an odd one, I have to admit. It has the stats to make for a great Special sweeper, but the thing literally has no good non-Grass moves at its disposal. However, it hardly needs it, as after one or two Quiver Dances, it should be able to eat almost everything around it alive with Petal Dance so long as it doesn't sport Sap Sipper. Hidden Power's only function is to hit things that are both resistant to Grass and weak to its type; Fire handles Grass, Steel, Ice, and Bug types, Ground works on Fire, Poison, and Steel, Ice covers Grass, Flying, and Dragon, and Rock takes on Fire, Flying, and Ice types. If Petal Dance is resisted but the opponent is neutral to Hidden Power, or if the opponent has a regular weakness to your Hidden Power while Grass is neutral. Maybe if the Hidden Power is a 4x weakness... anyway, chances are you'll be breaking out Petal Dance regardless. Sleep Powder is great for utility, its 75% accuracy not bad for a sleep-inducer, and Quiver Dance can be used to set up when the foe switches out. If you wish, you could give up Hidden Power for Giga Drain to give Lilligant some recovery, which would be vital if you run Life Orb, but Miracle Seed gives a lesser buff just to Grass moves and might work better with the Petal Dance/Giga Drain set.

glaceon-2.gif

Glaceon @ Assault Vest
Ice Body
Bold/Modest
248 HP, 252 Def/SpAtt, 8 SpDef
- Frost Breath/Blizzard
- Shadow Ball
- Signal Beam
- Hidden Power [Ground]

It's a shame none of the Eeveelutions gets a reliable recovery move that can be used with Assault Vest, or they'd be a lot more useful. Glaceon does have a considerable level of bulk on both defenses as well as incredible SpAtt, though, and as such could be a great beefy attacker. Its typing leaves a lot to be desired, and as with all Eeveelutions its movepool is a bit shallow, but it can be a surprising threat to the opposition. Frost Breath is a great STAB option, and if you can run this in Hail, Blizzard works great too. Shadow Ball, Signal Beam, and Hidden Power are all there to provide additional coverage, Hidden Power in particular thanks to the excellent offensive synergy between Ice and Ground. It has pretty solid defenses at 65/110/95, so investment can cover the meh HP while Assault Vest bolsters Glaceon's special bulk to even higher than its physical. Beefing up its Def instead of SpAtt could be a viable option too, and with a Bold nature could bring both defenses to be equal. This would cost it a fair chunk of its offenses, but at 130 SpAtt it's not exactly starved for power. Only thing to watch out for is to make sure HP remain at 248 so Glaceon has the chance to switch one extra time into Stealth Rocks.
 

Rocxidi

The Jim Reaper
I'm trying out a couple ways to deal with Substitue Aegislash for my Rotation team. One of them is Inflitrator Spiritomb. Looking at the following set:

Spiritomb @ Sitrus Berry
Nature: Bold
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 HP, 100 Def, 156 SpD (some physical bulk with Bold + EVs, but more on the special side to fearlessly switch into Shadow Balls; unfortunately it's not outspeeding either Aegislash or Mawile without some serious speed investment)
-Calm Mind
-Dark Pulse
-Rest
-Sleep Talk

Couple of things here: While this is mainly for Aegislash, I was thinking RestTalking CM Spiritomb could do a bit of all-purpose damage. Most of the time I plan to have it running under dual screen support. Nothing is immune to Dark, so while the set is setup fodder in Singles, I thiiiiink it might be a bit more all-purpose in Rotation.

Other options: I've considered Will-o-Wisp and/or Pain Split as well, which could replace RestTalk together. Also not sure on the item. I could go with Chesto Berry for a free Rest, or, thinking that it can't really choose a bad move while asleep, I could just go with Sitrus for prolonged longevity while Calm Minding, or even Black Glasses since its only attacking move is Dark. I could also get really crazy and go with one of the other pinch berries or Brightpowder/Lax Incense (which, IMO, have some use on bulky Pokemon). Assuming I don't care about being asleep, that item slot is pretty flexible.

Thoughts on this? Anyone run one of these before? Also open to alternate EV spreads.

Also breeding an Infiltrator Chandelure, which I think might work better, but I'm far enough along with this one to want to try it out.

You'd probably be better off with max HP and Defense with Leftovers. I tried a Restalk set with Walrein and it worked wonders.

Speaking of Lilligant, here's a moveset I remember planning off the top of my head...

Lilligant @ Big Root
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Modest Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Dream Eater

Very gimmicky and easy to wall, but with a few boosts it becomes tanky. Grass types laugh at this set.
 

Cipher

Nothing to be done
You'd probably be better off with max HP and Defense with Leftovers. I tried a Restalk set with Walrein and it worked wonders.
Ran the calcs:

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Spiritomb: 150-177 (49.3 - 58.2%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Looks like it still does its job! A+. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll likely have a chance to get a Calm Mind up at some point as well, so all physical bulk looks like the way to go. As a bonus, that also gives it less to fear from Mega Mawile or the increasingly rare physical Aegislash.

It's not going to get Leftovers because 90% of the time it's going to be on a team with Klefki, which makes better use of them, and I'm playing with item clause. Should've specified that in the first post. Otherwise they'd be the go-to.

EDIT -- And if I get a Calm Mind and Light Screen up: 252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Spiritomb through Light Screen: 50-59 (16.4 - 19.4%) -- possible 6HKO. Brutal.
 
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Onyx Tanuki

Ma! There's a weird 'nuki in the yahd!
Speaking of Lilligant, here's a moveset I remember planning off the top of my head...

Lilligant @ Big Root
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Modest Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Dream Eater

Very gimmicky and easy to wall, but with a few boosts it becomes tanky. Grass types laugh at this set.

I'm honestly not so sure about Big Root on a Dream Eater set. Chances are very good your opponent is going to switch out, so unless there's no sleep clause Lilligant's Dream Eater will just hit a target that's awake. And if it's late in the game enough that switching out isn't really an option, you're better off with Petal Dance to finish the opponent off anyway.

Now, a Big Root set isn't a bad idea, but you kinda need something bulkier than Lilligant, particularly SubSeeders. Meganium, for example.

Meganium @ Big Root
Overgrow
Calm/Bold/Relaxed/Sassy
252 HP, 80 Def/SpDef, 176 Def/SpDef or 252 HP, 252 Def/SpDef, 4 SpAtt or 252 HP, 252 SpAtt, 4 Def/SpDef
- Giga Drain
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Aromatherapy/Earthquake

This thing has 80/100/100 defenses, so it can survive a good bit longer than a Lilligant could. It has the SubLeech combo available, and with Big Root it's going to be healing more per turn, as well as recovering more from Giga Drain. The last move can be Aromatherapy so it can act as a cleric or Earthquake to handle specially-defensive threats and Fire or Steel types. It'll need some anti-Grass support in the form of another pokemon, however, since pretty much any Grass type out there besides something neutral to Grass like Ludicolo or Cradily. Aromatherapy variants could run Bold or Calm while Earthquake variants may want to run Relaxed or Sassy since Meganium's offenses are already rather meh. The choice for EVs depends on if you'd prefer active survival via stronger Giga Drains, defense focused on one side of the spectrum, or defenses split evenly between both sides.

The above set is actually something I'd thought of using on the team I put that Lilligant in, but I figured she'd be more use since I already have a number of good defensive pokemon and I wanted something that could use a fast Sleep Powder (I believe anything that can use Spore is UU or better and this is for an NU team).
 

Cipher

Nothing to be done
Okay, I think I'm down to the following for non-Leftovers items on Spiritomb:

Sitrus Berry: Buys an extra turn before needing to Rest. Turns many 2HKO moves (including Shadow Ball before Calm Mind) into 3HKO moves. Cons: Only works once.

Chesto Berry: Gets the first Rest for free. Cons: Only works once.

Black Glasses/Dark Plate: I think these options eclipse any other stat-raising item, giving a free 20% boost to its only attacking move. After a Calm Mind, it's putting out quite respectable damage with Dark Pulse.

Or I could go with one of the Internet's most hated items. On one-hit wonders, I think these are truly terrible. But on something with enough longevity to actually see them activate, a missed move or the ability to strike first could actually gain quite a bit a momentum: Bright Powder/Lax Incense or Quick Claw.
 

ger9119

Well-Known Member
Okay, I think I'm down to the following for non-Leftovers items on Spiritomb:

Sitrus Berry: Buys an extra turn before needing to Rest. Turns many 2HKO moves (including Shadow Ball before Calm Mind) into 3HKO moves. Cons: Only works once.

Chesto Berry: Gets the first Rest for free. Cons: Only works once.

Black Glasses/Dark Plate: I think these options eclipse any other stat-raising item, giving a free 20% boost to its only attacking move. After a Calm Mind, it's putting out quite respectable damage with Dark Pulse.

Or I could go with one of the Internet's most hated items. On one-hit wonders, I think these are truly terrible. But on something with enough longevity to actually see them activate, a missed move or the ability to strike first could actually gain quite a bit a momentum: Bright Powder/Lax Incense or Quick Claw.

I would go with Chesto Berry, if you're running a rest set may as well be totally healed up. I'm guessing you're running like Calm Mind or some Boosting move to go with it.
 

Cipher

Nothing to be done
I would go with Chesto Berry, if you're running a rest set may as well be totally healed up. I'm guessing you're running like Calm Mind or some Boosting move to go with it.
Yep. Calm Mind RestTalk. Posted above.

Leeeaaaaaaning toward Chesto now myself. I'll probably just have to play some test matches. I wish there were a Rotation simulator.
 
So I'm new to these forums and I joined because my friend 725roy wanted me to join his competitive guild. I'm not very good at battling but I'm hoping to get better! So I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on how to enhance my team. My competitive knowledge isn't very sharp, so please bare with me. Unfortunately, it looks like I can’t post the at signs, the site recognizes it as a link. Sorry!

Lemonsnout (Dragonite) with Weakness Policy
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly [+speed, - spc. a]
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Punch

Lead sweeper weakness policy dragonite: This is an undebatable member of my team, I'm not taking his weakness policy or removing him from the team, no matter what. Anyway, his attacks are mean2t to take any lead down, aside from salably who my clefable deals with. So basically, he sits on the first turn and dragon dances, should a super effective attack hit it, it survives 9 out of 10 times. From there I have a mega boosted dragonite who uses his versatile moveset to take out as many threats as it can. I'd wager that an ev redistribution may be helpfull by allocating some power to the special defense stat. Additionally, I'm wondering if that change could work with roost replacing fire punch, allowing it to stay alive longer and abuse multi scale.

Orion (Staraptor) with Choice Scarf
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly [+speed, - spc. a]
- Brave Bird
- Close Combat
- Double-Edge
- U-turn

Revenge sweeper Starapter: Should a pokemon be killed leaving me with a threat to face, for which nothing else can counter. Starapter comes in and takes it down. The choice scarf allows it to out speed most anything and it's move set allows it to hit anything hard with 120 power attacks enhanced with reckless, usually resulting in an ohko. U-turn is there should I encounter anything I have no reliable way to kill and that I predict will use a move one of my team could counter perfectly. Unfortunately, it's rare staraptor survives a hit.

Jack Noir (Dusknoir) with Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Nature: Careful [+sp. d. -sp. a.]
- Confuse Ray
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Sneak
- Pain Split

Trickster wall dusknoir: Dusknoir is the second undisputed staple member of my team, not taking it out. The set was created by myself, drawn from a variety of resources. So dusknoir has proven a formidable pokemon in many situations, by outsmarting my opponent I am able to cripple their pokemon with a pokemon they never see coming. Thus, I take use of general ignorance. When he comes out, he'll lead with a will-o-wisp if he faces a physical threat, otherwise confuse ray usually does the trick. Alternatively, since dusknoir can take any physical hit. He'll deal massive damage to his opponent by taking a hard hit and pain splitting himself back up and his opponent to the ground. Through the match he whittles his opponents by making them hit themselves, burning them, hitting them with a shadow sneak and rarely pain split. Generally, he can sweep through 2 or 3 pokemon, should my opponent lack a good counter.

Barb Wire (Ferrothorn) with Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
Nature: Relaxed [+def, -speed]
- Thunder Wave
- Power Whip
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed

mixed wall ferrothorn: I'm totally okay with ditching this guy if something else works better. This is the general ferrothorn, taking hits while doling out some effect moves and packing a power whip punch. I always go with stealth rocks first so that I can make room for future sweeps. Should ferrothorn make it farther than this, it will pick the best way to hurt its opponent, whether crippling it with thunder wave or leech seed, or dealing damage with power whip. A lot of pokemon are felled by attacking it and recieving intense hurt from iron barbs and rocky helmet. Unfortunately, the lack of recovery downs it usually.

Fishy (Gyarados) with Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: adamant [+atk., -spc. a]
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Substitute
- Earthquake

Mega sweeper gyarados: Gyarados, named for my first ever gyarados, has a simple role. Mega evolve, dragon dance, waterfall or earthquake to kill everything. Should a good opportunity to abuse substitute occur, I'll take it. Mega evolving gives him the bulk to take a hit and survive, allowing him to sweep the next turn. Waterfall provides infrequent flinches which are occasionally helpful. Sometimes I will leave it unmeged when I expect a fighting attack. Finally,

Clefable with Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 SpD
Nature: Calm [+sp. d., -atk.]
- Moonlight
- Moonblast
- Aromatherapy
- Cosmic Power

Mixed wall clefable: Clefable is here to erase the physical defense imbalance on my team, although they're able to take physical hits also. Clefable leads with a cosmic power in order to attempt to trick my opponents to expect a stored power. This allows it to tank hits while moonlighting to restore health. From here we have an amazing mixed wall, capable of surviving most anything while dealing damage insane for its role with moonblast. Aromatherapy is there to deal with paralysis while magic guard renders all other stasis effects worthless.

Anyway, thanks for the help! I hope to be a good part of this community and a threat in battling. With some practice, I hope to face off against many of you!
 

varanus_komodoensis

they call me Varanus
So I'm new to these forums and I joined because my friend 725roy wanted me to join his competitive guild. I'm not very good at battling but I'm hoping to get better! So I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on how to enhance my team. My competitive knowledge isn't very sharp, so please bare with me. Unfortunately, it looks like I can’t post the at signs, the site recognizes it as a link. Sorry!

Lemonsnout (Dragonite) with Weakness Policy
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly [+speed, - spc. a]
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Punch

Lead sweeper weakness policy dragonite: This is an undebatable member of my team, I'm not taking his weakness policy or removing him from the team, no matter what. Anyway, his attacks are mean2t to take any lead down, aside from salably who my clefable deals with. So basically, he sits on the first turn and dragon dances, should a super effective attack hit it, it survives 9 out of 10 times. From there I have a mega boosted dragonite who uses his versatile moveset to take out as many threats as it can. I'd wager that an ev redistribution may be helpfull by allocating some power to the special defense stat. Additionally, I'm wondering if that change could work with roost replacing fire punch, allowing it to stay alive longer and abuse multi scale.

Orion (Staraptor) with Choice Scarf
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly [+speed, - spc. a]
- Brave Bird
- Close Combat
- Double-Edge
- U-turn

Revenge sweeper Starapter: Should a pokemon be killed leaving me with a threat to face, for which nothing else can counter. Starapter comes in and takes it down. The choice scarf allows it to out speed most anything and it's move set allows it to hit anything hard with 120 power attacks enhanced with reckless, usually resulting in an ohko. U-turn is there should I encounter anything I have no reliable way to kill and that I predict will use a move one of my team could counter perfectly. Unfortunately, it's rare staraptor survives a hit.

Jack Noir (Dusknoir) with Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Nature: Careful [+sp. d. -sp. a.]
- Confuse Ray
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Sneak
- Pain Split

Trickster wall dusknoir: Dusknoir is the second undisputed staple member of my team, not taking it out. The set was created by myself, drawn from a variety of resources. So dusknoir has proven a formidable pokemon in many situations, by outsmarting my opponent I am able to cripple their pokemon with a pokemon they never see coming. Thus, I take use of general ignorance. When he comes out, he'll lead with a will-o-wisp if he faces a physical threat, otherwise confuse ray usually does the trick. Alternatively, since dusknoir can take any physical hit. He'll deal massive damage to his opponent by taking a hard hit and pain splitting himself back up and his opponent to the ground. Through the match he whittles his opponents by making them hit themselves, burning them, hitting them with a shadow sneak and rarely pain split. Generally, he can sweep through 2 or 3 pokemon, should my opponent lack a good counter.

Barb Wire (Ferrothorn) with Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
Nature: Relaxed [+def, -speed]
- Thunder Wave
- Power Whip
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed

mixed wall ferrothorn: I'm totally okay with ditching this guy if something else works better. This is the general ferrothorn, taking hits while doling out some effect moves and packing a power whip punch. I always go with stealth rocks first so that I can make room for future sweeps. Should ferrothorn make it farther than this, it will pick the best way to hurt its opponent, whether crippling it with thunder wave or leech seed, or dealing damage with power whip. A lot of pokemon are felled by attacking it and recieving intense hurt from iron barbs and rocky helmet. Unfortunately, the lack of recovery downs it usually.

Fishy (Gyarados) with Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: adamant [+atk., -spc. a]
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Substitute
- Earthquake

Mega sweeper gyarados: Gyarados, named for my first ever gyarados, has a simple role. Mega evolve, dragon dance, waterfall or earthquake to kill everything. Should a good opportunity to abuse substitute occur, I'll take it. Mega evolving gives him the bulk to take a hit and survive, allowing him to sweep the next turn. Waterfall provides infrequent flinches which are occasionally helpful. Sometimes I will leave it unmeged when I expect a fighting attack. Finally,

Clefable with Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 SpD
Nature: Calm [+sp. d., -atk.]
- Moonlight
- Moonblast
- Aromatherapy
- Cosmic Power

Mixed wall clefable: Clefable is here to erase the physical defense imbalance on my team, although they're able to take physical hits also. Clefable leads with a cosmic power in order to attempt to trick my opponents to expect a stored power. This allows it to tank hits while moonlighting to restore health. From here we have an amazing mixed wall, capable of surviving most anything while dealing damage insane for its role with moonblast. Aromatherapy is there to deal with paralysis while magic guard renders all other stasis effects worthless.

Anyway, thanks for the help! I hope to be a good part of this community and a threat in battling. With some practice, I hope to face off against many of you!

I like your team here :) It looks pretty solid. I only have a few suggestions.

First: Dusknoir. I've said it once on this thread and I'll say it again: Dusknoir is outclassed by almost every other special wall there is. If you insist on using it, I suggest actually doing Eviolite Dusclops intead of Dusknoir. Dusknoir and Dusclops have essentially the same Def, Sp Def, and HP stats - except that Eviolite will raise Dusclops's Defense and Special Defense another 50%, making it a heck of a lot more bulky and a much better wall than Dusknoir can ever be. You can use the same moveset and do the same thing you'd do with Dusknoir, except Dusclops can do it 50% better. And if your Eviolite gets Knocked Off, then you have a Pokemon with the same stats as Dusknoir, so no harm done.

Dragonite: I used to use that exact Dragonite set, except with Lum Berry instead of Weakness Policy. Weakness Policy Dragonite isn't as powerful when it's burned, but it's still a threat. The problem with Weakness Policy is that a lot of times, your opponent will burn Dragonite to see if it carries Lum Berry, and if it doesn't, then they won't be dumb enough to use an Ice, Dragon, or Fairy move against you, leaving you with 50% attack and no Weakness Policy boost. And you can't switch Dragonite in to an attack because you'll lose your Multiscale and you won't have the D-Dance speed boost. But Weakness Policy is definitely viable, and I've been tricked by Weakness Policy Dragonite many times. Anyway, if you want to use Dragon Claw over Outrage, that's up to you, but I highly recommend Outrage because Dragonite isn't very bulky after Multiscale. After your first hit, Dragonite has 1-2 turns to live and to do as much damage as possible. Outrage is base 120 power, and it will save you in a lot of situations. Also, Dragonite NEEDS Extremespeed. You NEED that priority on Dragonite because it's slow before a Dragon Dance, and a lot of things still outspeed it after one. Extremespeed priority can be the difference between winning and losing a battle. I would ditch Fire Punch for it. Fire Punch isn't STAB, is weaker than Earthquake, and I used to run it on Dragonite and found that by the time Dragonite was ready to come out (read: all Fairies dead), I didn't need Fire moves very often anyway.

Staraptor: Talonflame is better because it has Gale Wings. Priority 120 base Power Brave Bird, and it can also run U-Turn. And if you really want to, you can Scarf it, but Choice Band, Life Orb, or Leftovers are better on it.

Things I've noticed about your team that you might want to consider: you are really lacking in the priority department, which is why you should consider Extremespeed on Dragonite and Talonflame over Staraptor. Also, you don't have a Knock Off user - the buff to Knock Off this gen and Steel losing Dark resistance make Knock Off almost necessary in a lot of cases. Also a lot of Pokemon become useless when they lose their item, especially if they carry Eviolite. Finally, if you're going to use Dragonite and a flying-type (like Staraptor or Talonflame), you might want to consider adding a Defogger or a Rapid Spinner to your team.
 
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I like your team here :) It looks pretty solid. I only have a few suggestions.

First: Dusknoir. I've said it once on this thread and I'll say it again: Dusknoir is outclassed by almost every other special wall there is. If you insist on using it, I suggest actually doing Eviolite Dusclops intead of Dusknoir. Dusknoir and Dusclops have essentially the same Def, Sp Def, and HP stats - except that Eviolite will raise Dusclops's Defense and Special Defense another 50%, making it a heck of a lot more bulky and a much better wall than Dusknoir can ever be. You can use the same moveset and do the same thing you'd do with Dusknoir, except Dusclops can do it 50% better. And if your Eviolite gets Knocked Off, then you have a Pokemon with the same stats as Dusknoir, so no harm done.

Dragonite: I used to use that exact Dragonite set, except with Lum Berry instead of Weakness Policy. Weakness Policy Dragonite isn't as powerful when it's burned, but it's still a threat. The problem with Weakness Policy is that a lot of times, your opponent will burn Dragonite to see if it carries Lum Berry, and if it doesn't, then they won't be dumb enough to use an Ice, Dragon, or Fairy move against you, leaving you with 50% attack and no Weakness Policy boost. And you can't switch Dragonite in to an attack because you'll lose your Multiscale and you won't have the D-Dance speed boost. But Weakness Policy is definitely viable, and I've been tricked by Weakness Policy Dragonite many times. Anyway, if you want to use Dragon Claw over Outrage, that's up to you, but I highly recommend Outrage because Dragonite isn't very bulky after Multiscale. After your first hit, Dragonite has 1-2 turns to live and to do as much damage as possible. Outrage is base 120 power, and it will save you in a lot of situations. Also, Dragonite NEEDS Extremespeed. You NEED that priority on Dragonite because it's slow before a Dragon Dance, and a lot of things still outspeed it after one. Extremespeed priority can be the difference between winning and losing a battle. I would ditch Fire Punch for it. Fire Punch isn't STAB, is weaker than Earthquake, and I used to run it on Dragonite and found that by the time Dragonite was ready to come out (read: all Fairies dead), I didn't need Fire moves very often anyway.

Staraptor: Talonflame is better because it has Gale Wings. Priority 120 base Power Brave Bird, and it can also run U-Turn. And if you really want to, you can Scarf it, but Choice Band, Life Orb, or Leftovers are better on it.

Things I've noticed about your team that you might want to consider: you are really lacking in the priority department, which is why you should consider Extremespeed on Dragonite and Talonflame over Staraptor. Also, you don't have a Knock Off user - the buff to Knock Off this gen and Steel losing Dark resistance make Knock Off almost necessary in a lot of cases. Also a lot of Pokemon become useless when they lose their item, especially if they carry Eviolite. Finally, if you're going to use Dragonite and a flying-type (like Staraptor or Talonflame), you might want to consider adding a Defogger or a Rapid Spinner to your team.

Alright, thanks for the help! I took your suggestions and gave dragonite extreme speed and outrage in place of dragon claw and fire punch. I'm personally really into weakness policy dragonite so for now I'm keeping that strategy out of past results and personal preference. Additionally, I fear exchanging dusknoir for a duskclops. Generally, dusknoir's defenses are all I need, and allow for tricky out predictions by taking a powerful hit, surviving by a sliver and then dealing massive damage with a pain split. Further, Dusklops possesses no regen other than painsplit where as dusknoir can abuse leftovers. Finally, staraptor with choice scarf has never been outsped in my experiences and the ability reckless paired with 120 power moves like double edge and brave bird deal enough damage to be the perfect revenge killer.

On another note, I took your advice with adding a knock off user. In place of ferrothorn I added bisharp:

Dave Strider (Bisharp) with Assault Vest
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Pursuit

Defensive sweeper bisharp: I realize this motif is rather unorthodox, but I wanted something that could take hits like ferrothorn but also be more useful in general. Bisharp goes out to handle anything nothing else can effectively wall or when he has an advantage over his opponent. When on the field, he uses knockoff, should he not be facing something resisting dark which is rare. Thus, his opponents are itemless and crippled in their hp. Pursuit and suckerpunch allow him to play the field in a tricky manner by controlling the tempo of his opponents. Iron head provides alternative stab. Now we get to the odd part, as a steel type bisharp already posses decent defenses. Although, his assault vest supplements his special defense and allows use of his variety of moves.

The next lackluster member of my team was gyarados, even with his nostalgic name. Ultimately, he couldn't hit very diversely and possessed only passable bulk. Thus I added ludicolo to take hits and deal swift and punishing damage.

Kawii beast (Ludicolo) with Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Rain Dance
- Surf
- Giga Drain
- Ice Beam

Bulky sweeper ludicolo: Ludicolo enters battle late in the game to destory any lingering threats and rip apart the damaged switched out pokemon and brings down a rain dance to max his speed. From there he hits hard with a diverse move pool, damage supplimented by life orb, and takes back any lost hp with giga drain. With swift swim, ludicolo is fast enough to topple threats using his powered up moves augmented by life orb. I personally chose surf over hydro pump because surf is good enough and has much better accuracy. Ludicolo's bulk also makes up for the small void provided by the removal of ferrothorn.

Thanks for the help! I've done a bit of testing and this new team has proved much more powerful!
 

Onyx Tanuki

Ma! There's a weird 'nuki in the yahd!
wailord-2.gif

Wailord @ Leftovers
Pressure/Oblivious/Water Veil
Bold/Calm
248 HP, 252 Def/SpDef, 8 SpAtt Or 252 Def/SpDef, 252 SpAtt, 4 Def/SpDef
- Scald
- Clear Smog/Ice Beam
- Substitute
- Aqua Ring/Ice Beam

I kinda wish Wailord had slightly better defenses in one category or another; its high HP is great, but it's kinda Pain Split bait, and can't really take a hit as well as it should. If it had at least 70 in either Def or SpDef and some decent recovery besides Rest, it'd probably be a higher tier. As it is, though, it does at least have decent offenses, and that massive HP does at least give it enough bulk that it's not necessary to invest in it if you don't want to. For this one, though, I decided I may as well go the defensive route anyway with a stall set. Any of its abilities works well with this, with Pressure able to stall out moves that are high in power but low in PP, Water Veil allowing it to switch in on Will-o-Wisps, and Oblivious preventing it from being Taunted or Encored into a chain of useless Substitutes or Aqua Rings. If I was to order them in usefulness I'd say Oblivious > Pressure > Water Veil. With equal defenses, one could go with either physical or special defense, but since both of its weaknesses are more often seen on the special side, it's better to stick to physical IMO. The strat is simple enough; Substitute, Aqua Ring if you use it, then pop out Scalds on anything that doesn't eat Water moves up. Aqua Ring is a good option for versions that invest in HP, boosting Wailord's recovery per turn to 1/8th of its health pool, and Clear Smog is good for ruining things that try and set up and aren't named Klang or Klinklang, but either one can be dropped for Ice Beam for better coverage.

If you choose to tank with this, it's probably better to pick one type of defense rather than investing full EVs into both; that allows you to either put investment into HP to really bolster your survival on that side, or put it into SpAtt so that your attacks can put a bigger dent into things. Whichever defense you invest in, you'll probably want to pair with a defensive Grass or Dragon type that invests in the other half; SpDef Wailord may do well with Leafeon or Supersize Gourgeist, for example, or physical might work well with Dragalge or Sliggoo.

stoutland.gif

Stoutland @ Assault Vest/Leftovers/Toxic Orb
Scrappy
Impish/Careful
252 HP, 4 Att, 252 Def/SpDef
- Return/Facade
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Howl

While probably not the best set for him, Stoutland is quite capable of pulling off a Rest Talk set. Scrappy prevents him from being walled completely by Ghosts, and Howl is used for setup. Stoutland has pretty decent bulk, sitting at 85/90/90, and with 110 Attack he is going to have a pretty powerful Return even without investment. Assault Vest will help Stoutland wall the opposition as it sleeps, while Leftovers will keep it healthy for longer. A riskier version of this set could use Toxic Orb and Facade, giving Stoutland a bit more punch while it's awake, but less while it sleeps (unless Facade also gets its damage boost on Sleeping pokemon, which I'm pretty sure it doesn't) at the cost of some of Stoutland's defensive prowess. Since he's still fairly effectively walled by Rock and Steel types due to lack of a coverage move, your best partners with this will be users of Ground and/or Fighting moves, with a preference for any that can defend against Fighting types as well.
 
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Rocxidi

The Jim Reaper
Trying to get a good Clefable set, need some help...

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Cosmic Power / Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Stored Power
- Moonlight / Wish

So I'm looking for a good set for this thing, and it seems to me that Unaware and Cosmic Power become unstoppable after a while. However, Calm Mind allows Moonblast to hit hard. Stored Power gets amazing damage in some situations. Wish and Moonlight are my only healing options because WiFi.

Thanks!
 

venom1950

Ace Trainer
Clefable is more of a specially defensive pokemon but it also has a decent defense base stats. 252 HP, 129 def, 126 sp def should make Clefable an awesome wall.
moveset:
-cosmic power
-wish
-protect
-stored power/moonblast

i have battled against and alongside this set and it is a blast.
 

sheerioxo

Member
545.gif


Scolipede @Leftovers
Ability: Speed Boost
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 236 HP / 60 Atk / 40 Def / 172 Spe

Swords Dance
Earthquake
Poison Jab
Rock Slide / Protect

The speed EV's given allow Scolipede to outspeed threats such as Mega Charizard X, Dragonite, Gyarados, and Togekiss. However, it still can't outspeed things like Talonflame, Espeon, and the typical set for Mega Charizard Y, unless it uses Protect first turn to get the Speed Boost raise. 36 EVs in Attack are enough to OHKO Heatran and 2HKO Bisharp. Honestly, I'm not sure if this is a good set or not. I know that Mega Charizard Y is a problem, but I plan on using Assault Vest Goodra with this guy. What do you think? Anything I should change? Should I use Rock Slide or Protect?​
 
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