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Sinnoh/Kalos League Discussion

So what is so great about this 2 leagues that people are always bashing the unova league? Mind sharing your insights and enlighten me.
 

Xenon Blue

No Hard Feelings
Well for Sinnoh you had Ash vs Paul. I don't think I need to say anymore.

Despite my constant hatred towards the Kalos league, it had its moments in Ash vs Sawyer and Ash vs Alain.

I feel like if the Unova league played out like this it would rival Hoenn, perhaps surpass it:
Rd1: vs CotD (1v1)
RD2: vs Cameron (2v2)
Rd3: vs Stephan, and Trip vs Bianca (3v3)
Rd4: vs Trip (6v6)
Rd5: vs Virgil (6v6) loss.
End with Top 4 finish
 
Well for Sinnoh you had Ash vs Paul. I don't think I need to say anymore.

Despite my constant hatred towards the Kalos league, it had its moments in Ash vs Sawyer and Ash vs Alain.

I feel like if the Unova league played out like this it would rival Hoenn, perhaps surpass it:
Rd1: vs CotD (1v1)
RD2: vs Cameron (2v2)
Rd3: vs Stephan, and Trip vs Bianca (3v3)
Rd4: vs Trip (6v6)
Rd5: vs Virgil (6v6) loss.
End with Top 4 finish
Well for ash vs paul i see the infernape vs electervire as a letdown. What was with them punching each other like some fighting anime. Not to mention the 3 wins infernape took and poison not present when he activated blaze.

Oh and also how retarded ash was to let electervire catch his infernape to get shocked to a near-death state
 
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Xenon Blue

No Hard Feelings
Well for ash vs paul i see the infernape vs electervire as a letdown. What was with them punching each other like some fighting anime. Not to mention the 3 wins infernape took and poison not present when he activated blaze.

Oh and also how retarded ash was to let electervire catch his infernape to get shocked to a near-death state
Well yes Infernape hogging the glory kinda sucked, but made sense in terms of plot (he needed to prove his worth vs Paul). Infernape vs Electivire was really well done. Yes there was that punching scene, but I think it was neat how there were voices over the scene. Ash purposely let Infernape get caught to activate blaze asap (a weird strategy but at least Ash is thinking). And then there is Type:Wild and the epic staredown to finish it off.

Not to mention the constant use of strategy and mind game by both sides. Paul knew how to fully utilize Ash's style, such as when Buizel got caught by Drapion .Instead of finishing it off quickly, Paul counted on Ash finding a way to escape in order to give a false sense of hope for Ash and let his guard down. He managed to get toxic spikes up for free this way.
 

PokemonBattleFanatic-

Standby for Battle!
The Sinnoh League had more skilled and competent trainers were more qualified to compete in a League.Unova League always gets bad reception from the fandom because of how poor Ash/Trip final battle was handled,Cameron showed up with only 5 Pokemon in his possession.After all the development and progression Ash went through in DP he ends up losing to a dim witted trainer,that left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths,it's almost as bad as Ash's Pikachu losing to a low level snivy from the beginning of BW.
 

Haunter ゴースト

Well-Known Member
The BW League was awful for many reasons.

- Completely rushed. A 5 Episode League is a no. The saga revolves around this event.

- 4 Battles, only 1 of them was good.

- Ash vs Trip was yet again Trip beating down Ash over and over until a sudden realisation that a double move is the key to win? Why not do this all the time? The fight was a 1v1 and lasted 2 episodes. We had 3 left at this point. Ugh.

- As if 3 episodes left wasn't bad enough fight number 2 was cut for a filler which would have been fine had the League lasted longer and had more going on. Unfortunately it didn't.

- And so, here comes the worst of the bunch. Fight number 4 vs Cameron. Where the hell do i begin? The fight sucked. It consisted of back and forth attacks with no strategy. After Pignite had taken out Hydreigon and Ferrothorn, Samurott was sent out, this was the obvious point to switch but alas it didn't happen and he was taken out in seconds. Pikachu and Pignite were the only Pokemon to take out Camerons members. Cameron was stupid and completely unbelievable in the League, how does a trainer like him make it this far? 5 vs 5 is a full battle to him? WHAT HAPPENED HERE.

- The writers had Ash regress. While it is realistic that a trainer may regress at a League, they did it in the worst way possible losing to Cameron. It was a huge slap in the face by the writers.
 
The BW League was awful for many reasons.

- Completely rushed. A 5 Episode League is a no. The saga revolves around this event.

- 4 Battles, only 1 of them was good.

- Ash vs Trip was yet again Trip beating down Ash over and over until a sudden realisation that a double move is the key to win? Why not do this all the time? The fight was a 1v1 and lasted 2 episodes. We had 3 left at this point. Ugh.

- As if 3 episodes left wasn't bad enough fight number 2 was cut for a filler which would have been fine had the League lasted longer and had more going on. Unfortunately it didn't.

- And so, here comes the worst of the bunch. Fight number 4 vs Cameron. Where the hell do i begin? The fight sucked. It consisted of back and forth attacks with no strategy. After Pignite had taken out Hydreigon and Ferrothorn, Samurott was sent out, this was the obvious point to switch but alas it didn't happen and he was taken out in seconds. Pikachu and Pignite were the only Pokemon to take out Camerons members. Cameron was stupid and completely unbelievable in the League, how does a trainer like him make it this far? 5 vs 5 is a full battle to him? WHAT HAPPENED HERE.

- The writers had Ash regress. While it is realistic that a trainer may regress at a League, they did it in the worst way possible losing to Cameron. It was a huge slap in the face by the writers.
Ok but what i want to know is what is so great about sinnoh and kalos. Not about BW since i see it everywhere
 

Haunter ゴースト

Well-Known Member
Ok but what i want to know is what is so great about sinnoh and kalos. Not about BW since i see it everywhere
Sinnoh: Well paced league with great battles all the way through (yes even tobias). Good characters/opponents. Nice sense of progression with Ash as he strategized and fought intensely. Also because we had reserves which was nice to see (granted reserves isn't necessary). I have no problems with the Sinnoh League.

Kalos: Excellent animation, incredible battles which are fully fleshed out, Ash's progression has furthered and ultimately it is a really fun and great 7 episode league with great opponents.
 

XY Rules

Pokemon Master
Sinnoh League was hype. It had the best battle in the series, Ash vs Paul and that was defintely the highlight because along with the rivarly plot they had going on, there was also really good strategies going on both sides. And seeing Ash using mind games just like Paul made it even better. And then you had the amazing Infernape vs Electivire fight. But even aside from that there were a ton of other great battles which had good strategy as well and you could really see the level of trainers in the league was pretty darn high. Then it had the Fanservice stuff with Ash using reserves and all. Many of the Pokemon got to shine as well (poor Torterra and Torkoal though). It was the first time Ash had made it to the semi-finals and he went out like a boss being the only trainer to take out not one, but two of Tobias's legendaries. Might as well have been Top 2...It also had great pacing.

Kalos while rushed has still had some pretty good moments. Pikachu has been going in, Ash is using strategy whenever he needs to, and Ash-Greninja is pretty fun to see. It's also the first time Ash is officially in the Top 2. Oh and it looks pretty and all that.

Unova league was garbage in comparison. Ash having a 1 vs. 1 against his main rival in the preliminary rounds. Devoting a random episode to Axew for no feasible purpose, there was hardly any strategy going on even from Ash, and worst of all having Ash lose to Cameron of all people. Someone who he helped get to the league in the first place. Even with the reset, it was clear that Ash was a better trainer than him.
 
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Ominous Wind

Well-Known Member
Let's see:

Ash vs Paul

4 of Paul's Pokemon never get a win
Infernape gets 3 wins

Ash vs Alain

2 of Alains Pokemon never get a win
Pikachu has 2 wins, and there's a chance Greninja could get 2 as well

Seems to me like Ash vs Alain wins here. As a sidenote, I have always believed that they had Paul use other Pokemon because his main team would have destroyed Ash again. Which is why I've never liked this battle.
 
Ash vs Alain is complete garbage to Ash vs Paul LOL.

Pikachu takes two wins and is still fighting Charizard. Along with that Greninja will also be fighting it. Talonflame only got a draw, and Noivern got nothing. Goodra will probably get nothing...So like three Pokemon get wins and all the rest are painfully neglected.

In Ash vs Paul however, Infernape, Buizel, Pikachu, and Gliscor all got a win. And Staraptor's battle was paced well enough that it still got to show off it's skills unlike Hawlucha's rushed as heck battle. Only Torterra was neglected.

So 5/6 Pokemon getting to time to shine vs a measly 2/6.
It's not hard to see that Ash vs Paul easily wins this one. Only an ignorant fool would say otherwise...
 

Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
The fact that only two of Paul's pokemon had wins really drags down their final match for me. I would have liked it better if his Gastradon or Ninjask got a victory
 

Litleonid

Well-Known Member
There's a reason why the Unova League is considered by a good size of the fanbase to be trash. First of all, lets take a look at Ash's very first battle, a one on one against his primary rival through the series, Trip. The battle was bad and mostly had Pikachu getting slaughtered by Serperior, until he managed to defeat it with an Iron Tail/Electroball combo. Strike one. This is not the way they should have wrapped up Ash's rivalry with Trip. Secondly, the second battle Ash was having was shoved aside for a very, VERY pointless filler where Axew gets lost, mid league. While it still showed Ash moving on, the main focus was Axew getting lost, which was unnecessary. This was the second strike. The next battle thankfully was decent and probably the ONLY good battle of the league, which was Ash vs. Stephan. Then, the train crashes when Ash goes against Cameron. The battle was boring, full of Ash and Cameron only exchanging attacks with no strategy. There were terrible decisions made by both Ash and Cameron to battle with match ups, like Pignite vs. Ferrothorn. Things get worse as its revealed that Cameron only had FIVE Pokemon on hand, highlighting his incompetence. As if it couldn't get any worse, Cameron gets a lucky evolution and defeats Ash. That's strike three. The fact that Virgil was even here to begin with and didn't even battle Ash is another point I want to bring up. But yes, five episodes and only one good battle is why people do not like the Unova League.

As for the Sinnoh League, it was still a very good league, while I have some issues, like Tobias, Team Rocket taking time away from Quilava, and the Top 32 being skipped. It still had a lot of highlights as well as some decent pacing. Ash vs. Nando and Ash vs. Conway were both pretty good battles and its hard to deny how great Ash's final battle with Paul was, despite Paul not using his main team. It was a battle full of strategy and amazing visuals. Heck, Paul vs. Barry was even a pretty decent battle to watch. Ash vs. Tobias did have some great moments as well, like Sceptile FINALLY taking down the infamous Darkrai. I did not like Ash losing to Tobias at all, but it still was a pretty good league.
 
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EvanUn0

Active Member
When it comes to the hype, Sinnoh and Kalos have a lot going for them. The leagues are treated with respect and feel like some sort of grand finale for certain characters/arcs. Unova felt like... Just another battle club. There was no sense of "This is it; the final string of battles! There's gonna be intense fighting and strategy out the wazoo!" It was more like... "Here are some battles, I guess..."

Having the main rival (Trip) go down in the preliminaries and all of a sudden being all buddy-buddy with Ash makes no sense, considering how irrationally rude Trip was before the league. It was only a 1v1, and Ash didn't get strategic until the VERY END.

An entire episode was dedicated to Iris' Axew getting lost at the league for no reason at all, probably done only to fill an episode quota. It served no purpose, it didn't segway into anything big or important, just an "Oh look at dat silly Axew!!!11" moment! we could've used this episode for a second round. Ash Vs Bianca would've been great to see!

Ash Vs Stephan was ok, but only Krookodile got to shine (RIP Leavanny).

Ash Vs Cameron. Do you want a list? =P After re-watching this battle, it may very well be one of the worst in the entire series' history. There was no strategy, Cameron gets a Hydreigon out of nowhere, but is too stupid to realize that you need 6 Pokemon for a full battle. When Ash had Oshawott use Tackle, I'm fully convinced the writers gave up. Pignite and Pikachu were the only ones who got wins in this fight. Riolu was a Gary-Stu Pokemon to the max. You mean to tell me it beats an Unfezant without taking a single hit, and that Ash falls for Circle Throw TWICE? And of course, Riolu has to evolve and sweep Ash's last few Pokemon.

I might be taking this a bit seriously, but who wrote this episode? I want to actually know who wrote it. I have a simple question: Why? I would've been cool if he lost the league at another top 4 spot, but did you have to make him lose to one of the worst rivals/characters in the shows history? What was this match trying to prove?
 

Franckie

Well-Known Member
Sinnoh League hands down is the best. It had its problems (lol Tobias) but overall it was excellent. Good battles with good strategies with Ash using a variety of pokemon. Nothing felt rushed.

The main problem with the Unova League is Ash vs. Trip and Ash vs. Cameron. The league was a major letdown, though no surprise since the writers had no clue what they were doing to the point the Unova Saga was shutdown prematurely.

Kalos League is alright. The animation is excellent and the battles aren't shabby. Best part is Ash reaching the finals! My main gripes are the league skipping battles, thus depriving screentime and feats for Ash's lesser used pokemon, and how rival trainers like Shota went from nOOb to expert overnight.
 
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