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Smash Brothers for Nintendo Switch (and others)

Mr. Reloaded

All encompassing

Auraninja

Eh, ragazzo!
I'm still drawn to the idea of the poll, I'm trying to think of good characters for that poll regardless if they are popular; I'm thinking about how well they would work.

I'm thinking Paper Mario would be a good choice. Since he has a different motif than regular Mario, he could use his buddies and stickers for certain attacks. He may still be Mario, but the Paper Mario series has worked with different mechanics.
 

PrinceOfFacade

Ghost-Type Master
To say, one thing I really love about playing with items is fighting for them.

I love when a PokéBall shows up, and I and another player race for it, and we end up in a brawl to get the other player away from the PokéBall. The rush and intensity is very exciting, and it makes getting the item that much sweeter, and it makes playing even sweeter than that. Even if I don't get it, the thrill of it all just gets me pumped!

For me, fighting for items is like a mini-match inside of a match. A quick detour duke out before going back to the main event.
 

Erron Black

The Outlaw
Regarding the poll, I think the most popular characters (Or at least reasonable ones) would probably be:

King K. Rool
Wolf
Krystal
Inkling
[Insert random 3rd party character]

not sure about any other characters, but those are the ones I've seen mentioned most.
 

Zachmac

Well-Known Member
You said that before, but the point remains the same.

So long as the chances are fair, the result doesn't matter.
I still stand by my point.
I guess our ideas of fair is just different. You care about the chances, but I - and most competitive players - care about the results.

This is something I guess we just can't agree on.
 

Mr. Reloaded

All encompassing
Items are nothing more than a coin flip that more or less can decide a match, whether it be shaving off a stock due to a bomb or the overpowered gust or racking up unfavorable percentages leading to easier kills at the end of a match. Items bring zero competitive value to the field which is why tournaments like APEX and EVO disables them.

Are items a bad thing in general? Absolutely not because they are meant to be fun and are fun, but they are literally everything but competitive.

It's fine if items are your thing but there are places where they just don't belong.
 

Rakurai

Well-Known Member
All the characters I'd want at this point who have realistic chances are more likely to be in Smash 5 due to having been in games that were released after Smash 4.
 

Auraninja

Eh, ragazzo!
With all the DLC coming out, I still wish for a toggle switch on DLC for All-Star Mode (Wii U), so that you can do the challenges for that mode. It's hard enough to do Hard Mode with everybody with no DLC, and I don't want to delete/re-upload DLC just for the purposes of doing those challenges.

I have 16 challenges left on Wii U. No Golden Hammers have been used. Three of these challenges deal with Hard All Star Mode (Duck Hunt/8/all).
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
I was going to go and respond to some of the posts, but then I realized that it wouldn't really mean anything, since I'd just be repeating myself, and that's not helping anyone, so I'll just tap out now.
 

Rocxidi

The Jim Reaper
Neither time when you obtained the hammer was it granted specifically for you. It was random every time. It could have went anywhere, and it so happened to go near you each time.

If I had been in that battle, and had succumb to those hammers, I would of course be irked in the moment, as would anyone, but I would never claim unfairness. It was random, not tailored.

As for what I would do to beat you, whatever I can do. If I have a shot to come back, I'll take it. If not, I'll just go out swinging. lol

it actually was

the probability of anyone else grabbing those hammers were zero
 

Erron Black

The Outlaw
For god's sake everyone. Let's let this whole item discussion die out. It's only causing problems. Whether you like it or not, we all have our preferences, there's no need to shame one person for wanting to play pure comp. smash or casual smash.

To end the discussion: Items are, in a way, not fair, why? They add a huge factor of randomness and luck to the board. When you add luck and randomness to something there's no way you can say the results were completely fair. Of course it doesn't favor anybody, but it doesn't place the items in a spot to where everybody has a fair chance of nabbing the item. If it spawns behind someone, or right on top of them, the chances for anybody else playing are extremely slim, or even none at all. Just because they aren't fair doesn't mean you shouldn't play it or that comp. players are better than casual players. If you want to play casually, go ahead nobody is stopping you. If you want to play comp., knock yourself out, it doesn't matter.

BUT, when you attack the other for something as ridiculous as this, that's when things start to get nasty and when the other party defends themselves. Nobody in this thread was saying the items were unfair, UNTIL the subject was brought up.
 

PrinceOfFacade

Ghost-Type Master
For future references, please don't end a discussion by adding to it with your own detailed opinion. That's chicanery.


Anyhoo, I'm starting to feel a bit unsettled about the way DLC is being handled. When the first line of (un)official but plausible results from the Fighter Ballot was posted, it showed the removal of third-party characters, with the results stating they are not suitable contenders. Yet, we have Ryu from Street Fighter, aside from the poll.

I'm not entirely sure what this poll is trying to acheive at this point, and it worries me about how the flow of DLC will go. I know the results are unofficial, but they are a reflection of what people are really asking for. With that, I ask, exactly what are we going to be getting? How will it go, and will it match the integrity of the poll?
 
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Erron Black

The Outlaw
For future references, please don't end a discussion by adding to it with your own detailed opinion. That's chicanery.

It's not an opinion, it's a fact. Luck and Randomness in no way brings fairness.

Take this for an example, in a raffle, you put 100 raffle tickets in and there are 200 raffle tickets put in at the end. However, at the end someone who put in only one raffle ticket ends up winning the raffle. You had a 50% chance of winning (Like you guys have been mentioning), however this person with one raffle ticket won. Is this fair? No.

There goes your fairness point

now let's end the discussion.
 

Rio!

Composer
...Is it absolutely necessary for someone to be right with this discussion? Really now.
 

Aurath8

Well-Known Member
While the question of spawning items can go back and forth, I don't think someone can defend the idea that the items themselves are fair. Take Gust Bellows, where if it spawns it is essentially 'press A to take stock'. I don't think any character in the game can actually survive if someone simply walks forward with gust bellows on. The only possible workaround is to attack before the opponent begins gusting, but that depends on exactly when and where the item spawns as to whether you can manage that and if your character has a projectile or good enough movement to attack. In other words, it is completely decided by a dice roll. While it can be described as 'fair' it's not a representation of the player's skill.

Many items can be used in situations where if the item spawns near a player the other player is simply not in a position to defend. If a player 1 is knocked off the stage, a Pokeball can spawn next to player 2, which itself spawns a Kyogre at the stage edge making recovery nigh impossible for player 1. Yes it could have happened to player to but normally player 2 would need to go through the sometimes complex process of edgeguards, gimps, ledge trumping in order to make the KO happen but instead its handed to him by RNG.
In reality a pokeball is normally relatively balanced. Oshawott rarely causes huge problems for people.
However it's the 5% of the time that the game has clearly screwed someone over is the thing makes items seem unfair. It's about the one time that a Bob-omb spawned in front of Mario when he's charging his FSmash. The one time when a crate contained an Invicibility Star, Golden Hammer and Master Ball containing an Arceus.

In a competitive scene, those kind of shenanigans really aren't appreciated considering the amount of work you can put into getting good in the first place. Imagine telling a football player that at any moment in the tournament during the the goal will randomly and suddenly double in size or that the goalkeeper could suddenly be attacked by chickens and be rendered immobile for 30 seconds. These could be harmless, but for the few times where it happens during a free kick or a corner a team could be handed an advantage that could settle the match.
To an extent, items have their own skill-based metagame but too many items are or can very easily become unbalanced. It's clear the team behind this game didn't balance them nearly as diligently as they did with fighters, and it's telling that iirc not a single item has received a balance patch since the game released.

...Is it absolutely necessary for someone to be right with this discussion? Really now.

If the question is there a right or wrong way to play this game, then clearly not.
If the question is to whether items are fair, balanced and/or at all suitable for competitive play, then I think there is a right answer that deserves debate.
 

Pikachu Fan Number Nine

Don't Mess wit Texas
I never do online play, so this discussion really doesn't affect me.

That being said, I really enjoy all the DLC that has been coming. So far I've only got all the new fighters, as well as the first Mii Costume pack, but I intend to get more Nintendo eShop cards for Xmas, so I can get more DLC.
 

Phsy-Spark

your wish is my strong recommendation
I finally found an eShop card. So now I have all the fighters minus Lucas because my sister didn't want to get him for some reason and Dreamland. The DLC characters are really fun, and I'm getting better as Roy.
 
So now I have all the fighters minus Lucas because my sister didn't want to get him for some reason and Dreamland.

Your sister is a bad person and you should feel bad for her.

I kid, I kid...

But seriously, get Lucas down the road.
 

Shinehollow

Turning that frown all the way down
I finally found an eShop card. So now I have all the fighters minus Lucas because my sister didn't want to get him for some reason and Dreamland. The DLC characters are really fun, and I'm getting better as Roy.

Your sister is a bad person and you should feel bad for her.

I kid, I kid...

But seriously, get Lucas down the road.

I wanted to save some money for a theme I wanted.I actually didn't have enough for the theme or Lucas after that spree,though.

Six months time,maybe.When the next DLC comes out.Because going somewhere where there is 3DS/Wii U cards is a rarity here.
 
Really, this debate about items and online and whatnot is pretty old. Everyone has their own views, no matter if they're really skewed.

I wanted to save some money for a theme I wanted.I actually didn't have enough for the theme or Lucas after that spree,though.

...Wait a minute, you're his sister? Oh wow.
 
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