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Smash Brothers for Nintendo Switch (and others)

Kitt Geekazaru

Infernape Trainer
It's been a while since I've posted on this thread.

I read a few pages back about shields needing to be nerfed, and I agree. Pac-man's dash attack, if it gets shielded, is a death sentence for him, because instead of moving along like he hit nothing, he goes ultra-slow and does no damage, and leaves him vulnerable. He also has a pretty bad grab, such that dash grabs can be rolled away from out of shield and then punished.

Finally, what does everyone think about the most recent tier list?
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Recon

11001101011101010100
Seeing samus at the bottom is weird. When facing her in FG, their spam projectiles method seems to have decent success

That's really all she can do though.

Any decently good player can get through them.
 

Taodragon

Training Anaylst
The majority of Samus' moves have a lot of issues that really hinder her. Many either don't combo well either into each other (Up Smash) or into other moves, are laggy despite lacking power (Down Smash), have undesirable hitboxes (Side Smash), or are just not reliable at all. Her projectiles are the only thing she has going for her, and even those carry some issues such as missiles being laggy attacks that don't kill even in the late 100%.

Really, of all of the characters, it's surprising that they didn't give her any sort of buff. She's probably one of the worst characters in the game at this point, especially since every single low tier character got a good amount of buffs like Robin and Mii Swordfighter while she was left in the rain.
 
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Aurath8

Well-Known Member
heh, I love how all the DLC characters are in B+. It's as if no-one knows where to put them yet. Alternatively, these three completely different Smashers somehow end up the same tier, which would be an incredible feat of balancing by developers if true.

I think Meta Knight deserves to be higher, but only in later tier lists. A few players have only recently started taking notice of the character and getting good results with him. I'm not entirely convinced of Rosalina in S tier with Shiek but that's because I've strangely seen almost no actual competitive gameplay with her. From my perspective its as if she got this high on theory alone.

Day 13: still completely baffled by Sonic not being a mid-tier character
 

TheDragonKing

King of dragons
I'm honestly surprised Luigi is so high on the list. I never really found him that special, his side special can be a great killing move, but in general I always found him an awkward not-quite-clone of Mario, but it must be just me. The Year of Luigi never ends!!
 

Ironthunder

The Uncultured One
Luigi is good mainly because a lot of his moves are kill moves. Dthrow into fair/downB can rack it up, and his side smash has lots of launch power and very little endlag.
 

Aurath8

Well-Known Member
I'm honestly surprised Luigi is so high on the list. I never really found him that special, his side special can be a great killing move, but in general I always found him an awkward not-quite-clone of Mario, but it must be just me. The Year of Luigi never ends!!

I guess the main thing for Luigi are the crazy combos and strings he can get out of DThrow. It combos into all his aerials apart from his Dair, which can then combo into themselves at low percents. If he gets one grab he can end up putting on 30% damage in a matter of seconds. Fireball is quite a good projectile, and can often lead into grab or helps prevent approaches.
He has a lot of kill options too: USmash, FSmash, DSmash, BThrow all do well, and he still has DownB near the stage ceiling and fairly powerful aerials to work with too. Amazingly DThrow combos into UpB against many characters at higher percents.

Meanwhile his recovery is reasonably good due to chaining his specials together, and his floatiness and his fast Nair make Luigi can allow him to escape combos.
 

magma grunt edu

casual hardcore fan
pac-man's dash can immediately chain into the grab. That would be amazing if his grab wasn't so slow. It's still a good option against shields and it's the only character that can safely dash attack into a shield.

tier lists are for losers. Get on my casual level pro scrubs. Oh that's right, you can't, you're too good for that. HA!

But if i must talk about it, i do find samus to have a lag in a lot of moves. that with teeter grab, a non chargeable standard special in the air, a very slow falling up special and probably 0 combo game, she has no other option but to projectile spam.
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord

saPower1000

FLIP ALL THE TABLES
I was playing yesterday vs. Pit on the Fire Emblem stage for 3DS (the Arena) and I had it so it was the normal stage. Pit was on one of the top platforms and just randomly Dash Danced (or something really close to it) back and forth for about a second. I've been trying to re-create this scenario, but I'm wondering if anything similar has happened to anyone else. I can't even get my inputs on the analog stick to make Pit do that when I play as him, so I assume the A.I. just flipped out.

Edit:
Found this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kecY8c8xCLM

Weeeel, that answers that question.
 
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Cradily17

Well-Known Member
I've beaten all of the challenges in the 3DS version. Can I unlock the rest of the trophies by playing Trophy Rush over and over?
 

Auraninja

Eh, ragazzo!
tier lists are for losers. Get on my casual level pro scrubs. Oh that's right, you can't, you're too good for that. HA!
Tier lists are used to predict practicality during tournaments. I used to have my issues with it, but they are there for that reason. Tell ZeRo that using Sheik/Diddy is not as advantageous as any other character.

I've beaten all of the challenges in the 3DS version. Can I unlock the rest of the trophies by playing Trophy Rush over and over?
That's how I got my last one (Mega Man Volnutt). Of course, you need coins, so you might have to increase your income from time to time.
 

Zachmac

Well-Known Member
Finally, what does everyone think about the most recent tier list?
I'll just go over my mains and secondaries.

-Pikachu and Diddy Kong are both secondaries of mine. I feel this tier list works. Diddy Kong is still decently easy to use, has a variety of tools to lean on, and the hoo-ha is still pretty good, even after the nerf. Pikachu took a bit more work for me to get used to, but his variety of option makes him feel just as good.

-I don't feel like I have as many options with my Pocket Sonic as I do Pikachu or Diddy, but his great speed makes him pretty good at juggling and his U-throw -> Spring -> Uair chain is a pretty good way to grab kills.

-Pit and Pitooey are well-balanced characters. They lack extreme strengths, but don't have extreme weaknesses either. Mid tier feels right for them. It also makes sense for them to be close together on the tier list. While most agree that Pit's arrows are better, they hardly make a huge difference in the long run.

-I always thought Lucario was a tad bit overrated. His aura mechanic scared so many people at first, but his range is short and his kill moves are slow. It's good to see I'm not the only one who things this, seeing that he's on the bottom half.

-Link has several projectiles, and good zair, and very powerful sword attacks. That's awesome. He's got a horrible grab, low speed and large hitbox, and his sword attacks are slow and generally not very safe to land(probably why For Glory players spam so much). That's not awesome. He's a character of extreme strengths and extreme weakness. I've been playing him since the demo, and lower-middle tier really seems to suit him.

-Robins got some combos. Arch Fire -> Levin Fair and Arch Thunder -> Levin Fair are both very powerful and satisfying combos. His Levin aerials are just awesome in general, actually. Their hitboxes are large and they deal tons of damage. He's held back by his speed and unimpressive tilts, however. While s/he's capable of some great things, I don't really feel that safe attacking my enemies with anything other then Thoron.

-I'm a dedicated Charizard main, and his terrible air speed and large size make him definite combo fodder. While his new and improved U-throw is incredibly awesome, I don't disagree that he's one of the less impressive characters on this roster.

-I've been playing Mewtwo since the day the DLC promotion started. He's got so many great moves. Fair is fast and powerful, Bair is great for edge guarding, D-tilt is safe, fast, and and a good combo starter, and Shadow Ball is just plain awesome regardless of if its at full charge or not. Yet many seem to agree he's not that good. Most people seem to blame it on his weight; they claim that he can be balanced as long as he's light. I disagree. I think if his D-throw actually comboed well, he'd be significantly better. I also feel like his metagames just undeveloped; he has so much untapped potential. But I suppose Ganon, Zelda, and Samus mains will argue that as well. I guess every character is capable of being awesome...some are just held back more.


Overall, I'd have to say I agree with the tier placements of my mains. While I love my Charizard, he's not competing with Pikachu's Thunder Jolts and Quick Attacks.
 
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Aurath8

Well-Known Member
I'll just go over my mains and secondaries.

-I've been playing Mewtwo since the day the DLC promotion started. He's got so many great moves. Fair is fast and powerful, Bair is great for edge guarding, D-tilt is safe, fast, and and a good combo starter, and Shadow Ball is just plain awesome regardless of if its at full charge or not. Yet many seem to agree he's not that good. Most people seem to blame it on his weight; they claim that he can be balanced as long as he's light. I disagree. I think if his D-throw actually comboed well, he'd be significantly better. I also feel like his metagames just undeveloped; he has so much untapped potential. But I suppose Ganon, Zelda, and Samus mains will argue that as well. I guess every character is capable of being awesome...some are just held back more.

Overall, I'd have to say I agree with the tier placements of my mains. While I love my Charizard, he's not competing with Pikachu's Thunder Jolts and Quick Attacks.

I really think his weight is really what holds Mewtwo back. He plays a like mid-weight/heavy character but because of his weight he is working much, much harder to take stocks and get KOs than the opponent. It's not really fair that KOing Dedede with Mewtwo requires almost double the damage compared with the reverse. I'm also not as confident in Shadow Ball. The endlag and slight pushback effect means it only seems useful for spacing and gimping. Compare with Thunder Jolt, which can lead into grabs or other attacks for Pikachu and can be used for spacing.

Normally, I'd disagree with the untapped potential argument, but the metagame has only recently realised Meta Knight is quite good after all. Not nearly as good as Brawl but good enough to compete with other high tier characters. Just reminded me how young this meta still. Even with all the attention Shiek has been getting I only saw this combo for the first time two days ago.
That said I still don't see him moving past C tier without a good buff somewhere.

-I don't feel like I have as many options with my Pocket Sonic as I do Pikachu or Diddy, but his great speed makes him pretty good at juggling and his U-throw -> Spring -> Uair chain is a pretty good way to grab kills.

Doesn't that only work if the opponent has no DI? Also is it a true combo at any point? If either of those are no then I'm not confident a good opponent would be caught out with that several times.
 
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magma grunt edu

casual hardcore fan
I've beaten all of the challenges in the 3DS version. Can I unlock the rest of the trophies by playing Trophy Rush over and over?

Yea, surprisingly you can't get all the trophies by playing just classic and beating the challenges. Trophy rush is the best way to get them, and you can get some custom moves too.

Tier lists are used to predict practicality during tournaments. I used to have my issues with it, but they are there for that reason. Tell ZeRo that using Sheik/Diddy is not as advantageous as any other character.

I know, and i'm sure you got what i was saying. But yeah, if your character has lag in a lot of his moves, it's attacks come slow and without enough power or your recovery sucks, you have way less chances than characters without those problems.
 

dabbido

Fiery Passion
The new tiers list is rather accurate, although I've never given them much importance. So do you guys think the new King K. Rool mii outfit, means he's probably not gonna get picked from the ballot?

Inklings, Isaac, Shantae and others along in the list sound good to me.
 

Mr. Reloaded

All encompassing
No way should Pit and Dark Pit be in the same tier lol. Dark Pit should be B and nothing more. And I say that as a Dark Pit main.

Shiek and Rosa deserve their spots.
 

TheEliteEmpoleon

Well-Known Member
The new tiers list is rather accurate, although I've never given them much importance. So do you guys think the new King K. Rool mii outfit, means he's probably not gonna get picked from the ballot?

I wouldn't rule Rool out completely, but I do think that the costume means that he likely won't be a fighter.
 
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