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Smoking And Today's Society

SwiftSoul

Kinkmeister General
Going through some of the old logs of the Debate Forum here, I cam across a similar topic, abot whether or not smoking tobacco should be illegal or not. I figured since there is quite a bit of new blood here, and, quite frankly, a large portion of said debate barring only a small handful of people, was filled with immaturity in general and unsupported positions, not defended by much substance but thrown out as if it were Word of God.

So, here's my question:
Should smoking be illegal?

This, of course, should be broken down further, into more specific details to avoid or at least minimize closed-mindedness on each side of the debate. As for one argument, what is the legal precedent as far as cover-all bans on things considered "drugs" yet are highly ingrained into American society?

As my first point there, I'd like to point out the 18th Amendment to the Constitution. This Amendment banned the production, transportation, and commercial trade of alcohol. As is well known, that ended up a bust, with the ban effectively making it more exciting and thrilling to drink, as well as putting the health of the public is worse potential trouble, as manufacturers of the illegal hooch could easily use fillers of sorts of varying risk to drinkers, and not get caught.

My second point, however, is cocaine. Cocaine was very much a part of American civilization once upon a time as well, becoming quite popular medically in the mid-to-late 1800s. Only being legal until around 1920, it had a rough 40 years of medical, and, by extension, personal use. Arguably, it should have been declared an illegal substance far earlier, as it has cut itself a niche in even today's society, all the more dangerous now as there have been ways to refine and increase potency, and the ever-savvy drug dealer has ways of both getting people hooked on it, and using it as a gateway for leading customers to even worse things.

Another argument that can be brought up is that all it does is harm people, with no positive effects on society whatsoever.

A rebuttal could be pointed out in that fast food is the same way, it harms those who consume it, and, due to supply and demand, makes it a hardship on those who wish to partake of something healthier. It could be argued that all junk food is equally as bad as cigarettes, as both can affect not only the consumer but those in the immediate area, and even worldwide. It would follow that since they are each equally bad and equally dangerous to society, that one cannot be wholeheartedly against one and not the other. As society as a majority accepts fast food, it would follow that, barring hypocrisy, society as a majority should also support smoking, even if they are a consumer of one, both, or neither. As both fast food and smoking can be utilized to relieve a level of stress, that can be further displayed to show how they can be compared.

However, a counterargument can be shown that points out the dangers not just to those who have made the decision not to smoke, but minors who are not mature enough to actually make the informed decision. Clearly, endangering the lives of children is wrong.

However, it should also be pointed out that automobile emissions and school pressures are also unhealthy for them, as teen depression is a large problem in out country already. If one really wanted to cut down the number of people who use drugs, even legal ones like tobacco and alcohol, would not the best route to be treating the primary problem, not the secondary one?

A final point here, and one that is not actually a call for debate but a call for tasteful and respectful treatment of your fellow man or woman. Please do not assume all smokers started uninformed, or are inherently stupid/dumb/deserve to die(or get wiped from the gene pool). Myself, I made a conscious choice to start smoking when I turned 18. I'm not as much addicted as habitual in my smoking pattern (often only 1-2 smokes a week). I weighed the pros and cons myself, and I made the choice that I would rather actually take the risk and do what I want with my own life rather than close myself off to the possibility no matter what.

Note that the points here are by no means the best arguments for or against, nor are they intended to be rigid. I just provided a basis and jumping point from which to start.
 

GhostAnime

Searching for her...
Banning smoking is the most ridiculous idea ever.
 

Malanu

Est sularus oth mith
I'm a non smoker. I grew up in a smoking household. banning smoking is just ridiculous. Smoking was banned in our shop. Because of that the smokers have to go outside now to get their fix. They smoke once an hour for 5-10 minutes. That's an hour of productivity lost every day. Just so we can have one less cancer causing element in the machine shop!

Don't blow your smoke in my face, and accept that I may just throw up on you if you insist on smoking a cigar around me and we'll be fine.
 

Ludwig

Well-Known Member
The only smoking that is noticeably done in Sweden is cigarette smoking, smoking that I don't notice isn't a problem. I also don't care about if most people smoke cigarettes, but I do care about some. If a person smoke a cigarette near me, I will dislike it because it's unhealthy, makes me cough, makes the air taste bad and sometimes my chest hurts when I stop breathing because someone is smoking a cigarette near me.
 

Pomegranate

Fruit of Prosperity
I only smoke when "movie-me" would smoke. For example: On a park bench at 2 AM. B)

This is hilarious.

As far as smoking, there's no way it should be banned. While the bad generally does outweigh the good in smoking, for example my mother was overweight and a smoker. Ideally she would quit smoking and lose weight. But because smoking speeds your metabolism, distracts you hands from eating (a common coping mechanism when you quit smoking), and removes the stress that would add to her weight, she had to choose one or the other. The weight was a more direct threat to her health. I don't blame her in the least.
 

Raddaya

My Little Ponyta
Wait just a second. Did you say fast food has an "area effect", so to speak, which rivals cigarettes?
I get where you're coming from. People see it and want to eat it. However, that, to be honest, is a MENTAL thing. The hardest and main part of being on a diet is mentally telling yourself, "I will NOT eat this." It is also YOUR choice to go on a diet and YOU suffer the drawbacks.
Smoking, on the other hand, is not like that at all. If someone smokes in your near vicinity, you can't exactly tell yourself, "I will NOT breathe this in." You have to breath in the toxic substances. It is NOT your choice to be around someone who smokes. However, you, too, suffer the drawbacks from it.
I'd like to point out at this point the effects of Passive smoking and, yes, Third-hand smoking. Being somewhat an animal lover, I also have to point out the damage done to animals.
I'm completely FOR banning smoking in all public places. Yes, even on the street. I think that you should be allowed to smoke in your own home(or someone's private property who allows you to smoke)- but not if you have children. If children are near the smoking, I think that it should be considered child abuse to knowingly keep smoking near them.
I have dinner right now, so there are probably a few holes here, but I'll probably patch them up as others discover them :p
 

Ludwig

Well-Known Member
If someone smokes in your near vicinity, you can't exactly tell yourself, "I will NOT breathe this in." You have to breath in the toxic substances.

That is false. I do that every time that I am near someone smoking cigarette.
 

UnovaMaster

Well-Known Member
YES! I want smoking to be illegal. All it is doing is killing people. And I'd be plenty fine with their choice to do something so stupid....if the second hand smoke wasn't hurting me as well.
 

GhostAnime

Searching for her...
Rangeet said:
I'm completely FOR banning smoking in all public places. Yes, even on the street.
Not only do I disagree with the fact that you said all public places by stripping them of their rights of controlling their own small businesses, but you even said ON THE STREET?

Please, let's not get carried away with the streets. Public places at least has some validation in it, but the streets? Really?

Reason I don't think it should be banned that broadly because you're essentially forcing your lifestyle on others. Most places that ban smoking public already do it through the free market anyway. Grocery stores and fast food places would do it simply because they would profit from doing so.

Some places that actually have more smokers than not shouldn't have to abide by this. Places like bars, bowling alleys, pool houses, etc. Nobody is forcing you to go to any of these places, so why ban it?

Same thing for the streets. The government can't constantly baby you about this issue. Just stand away from them. The world is your territory then.

UnovaMaster: Please see the prohibition act with alcohol in the past. Then repost.
 

UnovaMaster

Well-Known Member
Yup, already know about that. Alcohol needs to be banned too.

If it's enforced strongly enough, maybe it'll actually work. It's definitely worth a shot. Smoking and drinking are two dangers to society.
 
Yup, already know about that. Alcohol needs to be banned too.

If it's enforced strongly enough, maybe it'll actually work. It's definitely worth a shot. Smoking and drinking are two dangers to society.

Not a fan of personal freedoms then?

Driving is a danger to society too, shall we ban that? I sprained my ankle playing sport the other day, others I know have broken bones playing the sports they love, maybe they should ban those too.

Cutlery
Chandeliers
Plastic Bags
Human Beings

There are some other potential dangers to society. Care to explain why they should be banned (which using your logic they should be).
 
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YES! I want smoking to be illegal. All it is doing is killing people. And I'd be plenty fine with their choice to do something so stupid....if the second hand smoke wasn't hurting me as well.

The simple solution? Move.

Making smoking illegal is ridiculous as said before. It only has dehabilitating affects on the smoker and there are no mind altering affects from the drug like marijuana and alcohol. I do think it should be banned in public places as is now. I don't want to be eating a nice meal then all of a sudden have a wall of cigarette smoke in my face. If you want to smoke, that's fine, just make sure you do it outside or your own house, if you want your house smelling like cigs, but hey whatever floats your boat.
 

Ludwig

Well-Known Member
Not only do I disagree with the fact that you said all public places by stripping them of their rights of controlling their own small businesses, but you even said ON THE STREET?

Please, let's not get carried away with the streets. Public places at least has some validation in it, but the streets? Really?

Reason I don't think it should be banned that broadly because you're essentially forcing your lifestyle on others. Most places that ban smoking public already do it through the free market anyway. Grocery stores and fast food places would do it simply because they would profit from doing so.

Some places that actually have more smokers than not shouldn't have to abide by this. Places like bars, bowling alleys, pool houses, etc. Nobody is forcing you to go to any of these places, so why ban it?

Same thing for the streets. The government can't constantly baby you about this issue. Just stand away from them. The world is your territory then.

UnovaMaster: Please see the prohibition act with alcohol in the past. Then repost.

When walking on the street, you have a destination and a route to get there, meaning that you will either have to constantly change that route based on people to avoid smokers, suffer from being near smokers or suffer from not breathing. None of those options are positive.

There is no reason to care about that the smokers cause bad health to themselves, but by smoking on the streets they are also causing bad health to other people (the single smoker doesn't do this, but they do it collectively) and those other people don't have a way to avoid it that result in a neutral or positive outcome.
 
When walking on the street, you have a destination and a route to get there, meaning that you will either have to constantly change that route based on people to avoid smokers, suffer from being near smokers or suffer from not breathing. None of those options are positive.

There is no reason to care about that the smokers cause bad health to themselves, but by smoking on the streets they are also causing bad health to other people (the single smoker doesn't do this, but they do it collectively) and those other people don't have a way to avoid it that result in a neutral or positive outcome.

Breathing in a puff of second hand smoke every so often isn't going to kill you. People are so paranoid about the affects of it but, the only real way to get the affects of second hand smoke is to be around it almost constantly.
 
When walking on the street, you have a destination and a route to get there, meaning that you will either have to constantly change that route based on people to avoid smokers, suffer from being near smokers or suffer from not breathing. None of those options are positive.

There is no reason to care about that the smokers cause bad health to themselves, but by smoking on the streets they are also causing bad health to other people (the single smoker doesn't do this, but they do it collectively) and those other people don't have a way to avoid it that result in a neutral or positive outcome.

Dear god.

I'll say this once, early on, so everybody can be aware.

If you are walking down the street and come into the proximity of a cigarette smoker and his smoke, you are not going to be harmed in any way, shape or form by the smoke. Nothing is going to happen to you. You may have to move your body a metre or so to the roght or left to avoid it if you care so much, but really, nothing bad will happen.
 

UnovaMaster

Well-Known Member
I'm a fan of personal freedoms that don't cause harm to myself or anyone else. Both smoking and drinking have negative effects on the person using them and the people around them. It's kinda hard to move when your in a house where your stepmom and dad both smoke and do so about 10 times a day. I always have to cover my face with my shirt when I'm around them and it's probably a good reason why I choose to hole myself up in my room rather than be around them.
 
I do think it should be banned in public places as is now. I don't want to be eating a nice meal then all of a sudden have a wall of cigarette smoke in my face.

Don't go to the restaurant then.
 

Malanu

Est sularus oth mith
Neutral outcome would in fact be the smokers smoke the non smokers don't. The amount of smoke encountered would be negligible due to the open air environment of the street.
 

Ludwig

Well-Known Member
Breathing in a puff of second hand smoke every so often isn't going to kill you. People are so paranoid about the affects of it but, the only real way to get the affects of second hand smoke is to be around it almost constantly.

The International Agency for Research on Cancer of the World Health Organization concluded in 2004 that there was sufficient evidence that secondhand smoke caused cancer in humans. Most experts believe that moderate, occasional exposure to secondhand smoke presents a small but measurable cancer risk to nonsmokers. The overall risk depends on the effective dose received over time. The risk level is higher if non-smokers spend many hours in an environment where cigarette smoke is widespread, such as a business where many employees or patrons are smoking throughout the day, or a residential care facility where residents smoke freely. The US Surgeon General, in his 2006 report, estimated that living or working in a place where smoking is permitted increases the non-smokers' risk of developing heart disease by 25–30% and lung cancer by 20–30%.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_hand_smoke

Sources used by the author:
http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/90/19/1440
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9776409

I didn't read the sources but I assume that they state something similar to what the article does because otherwise a wikipedia moderator would had made a notification about it in the article.
 
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