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So Ash using Heracross proves he can use Pokemon not in the opening

So what's the big difference between them and Heracross and Gliscor?

Gliscor has history with Paul. Hard to grasp?

Gliscor lost once to Paul.

No, it has lost twice against Paul. The first time was during the Chimchar Blaze ep and the second time during the full battle. I remember interaction between the two in the Chimchar Blaze ep...

It doesn't mean it has something so prove against him.

Pathetic and a weak battler. I think Gliscor would prove that it isn't those things, don't ya think? I don't think Paul said this for no reason.

And Gible would surprise Paul.

By the fact that it can't use its best move properly? It would surprise Paul and not in a good way.

It is very important.

Which is why you can't actually tell me why it is important. It has no wins. The only match that it has ever looked good in was against that wild Golem in DP181 and it didn't even officially beat it (no swirly eyes). Even then, they made Piplup an establised character not be able to beat a Graveller in that ep with its strongest move just to make Gible seem credible. That is a huge length that they went to.

So no, Gible isn't important. It is comedy. If you say that Gliscor wasn't important as it was comedy, then you have to say the same for Gible.
 
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BirdStaraptor

Sinnoh Master
I think Ash will use Sceptile, Charizard, Swellow, pikachu, Squirtle and Bulbasaur in his last battle vs. the legend pokemon trainer!

sinnoh team will be tired from last battle against Paul team. and don't expect to see Totodile, Noctowl and other weak pokemon vs. legend pokemom!!
 

FlyAsADunsparce

Well-Known Member
I think Ash will use Sceptile, Charizard, Swellow, pikachu, Squirtle and Bulbasaur in his last battle vs. the legend pokemon trainer!

sinnoh team will be tired from last battle against Paul team. and don't expect to see Totodile, Noctowl and other weak pokemon vs. legend pokemom!!

Sceptile, Swellow, Squirtle and Charizard? Don't think so. I think Ash is only using the Pokémon that were shown in DP182. We didn't see Sceptile, Swellow, Squirtle, Charizard, Tauros, Kingler. But we DID see Heracross and Bulbasaur at Oak's lab. And ofcourse al the others with Ash. So I don't think Ash is going those pokémon whatsoever, but ofcourse I could be wrong.
 

TheNewGuy

Well-Known Member
I think we'll see Gliscor return, mostly because I have a little faith in the writers since this saga has been fairly well-done. I want to see Ash's Gliscor vs. Paul's - Ash's will have a point to prove.
 

KingMinun

Dawn/Sinnoh Fan!
Kingminun,Quilava it's not redeem and you should not be saying that because that its not true at all,Cyndaquil was always a very strong powerful pokemon from the very start and now that he its a really strong powerful Quilava it don't mean that the fans won or that they are having their way because their not,also Ash having Quilava don't mean that he will be winning the Sinnoh League either.

I get the feeling you didn't read my post properly.
I was saying Cyndaquil was a strong pokemon, the strongest on the Johto Team. And now thanks to its evolution and time at Oak's its even stronger. In fact I was comparing Cyndaquil to Gliscor to prove that Gliscor isn't as good. And no, Cyndaquil wasn't powerful from the start (I suggest you go back and watch your beloved Johto saga) Cyndaquil defeated a Team Rocket Mecha, which many pokemon has done, and it couldn't get its flame ignited. So no it wasn't powerful from the start. But after getting its flame ignite, it became a powerful pokemon.
 
Ash using reserves against Paul would be a travesty, but he probably will use one in place of Gible. Ash may not be the brightest bulb in the box, but he isn't that stupid. Using an unevolved Pokemon with zero solid wins under its belt (that weren't against TR) and the attention span of a turkey. In a simple battle with nothing at stake, it would be fine to do that, but in a League battle against his most formidable rival, using Gible would be suicide.
Man, when I think of all the strategies Ash has learned in Sinnoh, I have no doubt that his battle with Paul will be absolutely epic. Counter-shield, Ice-Aqua Jet, the strategy of powering up Pokemon by having them swallow their own attacks, Infernape's mastery of Blaze; throw in the fact that he has two fully-evolved starters, and it is the formula for the perfect battle.
Also, if Ash doesn't win this league, I will be absolutely infuriated. We know he won't lose to Nando because those two fight in the first round; he won't lose to Barry because Paul will be taking care of him; he won't lose to Conway because, as we've seen, it's very likely that he will face him before facing Paul; they wouldn't have Paul beat Ash in the League. That's all of his rivals right there. I swear that I will be ****ing mad if they have him lose to someone he only met at or just before the start of the League... for the FOURTH TIME!!! Come on, if you aren't going to let him win the League, at least let him lose to one of his actual rivals he had met before getting all of his badges!
 

pokemaster95

King of pirates
I think Ash will get to the top 4. Battle Paul and win, but all his pokemon are tired. So the next day when he fights the Heatran he loses.

Like what they did with Harrison in the Jhoto league
 

Kotone

Well-Known Member
I want kanto trio , kingler , muk back but guys I think you guys should get it by now gliscor is NOT coming back , it's like primeape and ambipom , not like charizard..
 

saladbar112

Gliscor Returns!
Ash will use his Sinnoh Team against Paul. The entire story with Paul and Ash revolves around their contrasting battle styles. Paul sees Ash as very weak, which is what leads to the story with Chimchar/Infernape. For this battle, Ash can easily whip out Charizard, Swellow, Sceptile, etc. and just totally demolish Paul's team, but if Ash did that, that is just like Ash agreed with Paul that his Sinnoh team was weak. For that reason, Ash and his Sinnoh team has something to prove to Paul.

I am definitely one of the people that think Gliscor will return for the Paul battle. It deserves to be in that battle way more than Gible or any other reserve. It cannot be Ash's Sinnoh Team (minus Gilble) and just a random pokemon like Heracross fighting that battle. Heracross in there is just too random. It has to be a Pokemon that will fit in the battle. The only two pokemon that qualify for that is Gliscor and Gible because they both are Sinnoh Pokemon on Ash's Sinnoh Roster. However, Gliscor has had more story with Paul just because of the few battles it had with Paul and that Paul thought it was weak. Gible has so far no story whatsoever with Paul and therefore does not fit in as much as Gliscor in the battle.
 

Thriller

Its almost time
ITT: Gliscor's fantasy rivalry with Shinji's Gliscor.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, Ash DOES NOT need to use his full Sinnoh Team against Shinji. The only, ONLY Pokemon that should be in that fight at all is Infernape.
 
I've said it before, I'll say it again, Ash DOES NOT need to use his full Sinnoh Team against Shinji. The only, ONLY Pokemon that should be in that fight at all is Infernape.

This is where you take note of dialogue and scenes.

In ‘Uncrushing Defeat!’:
“...we’re gonna have to work harder than Paul, and when we meet up with him again, we’re gonna beat that guy! What do you say gang?”

He says that to his Sinnoh team the episode after the full battle. 'We' is a collective term, he means all of the Poké that he was talking to.

Let's get real. Ash said this himself. Why should we disbelieve what he said here? This isn't Kanto where the writing is poor, this is Sinnoh where they have continuity and stick to their plot.

(Btw, if you are going to use 'Shinji' then you might as well use 'Goukazaru' as well to be consistent.)

---

I have to ask, why do people think that Ash won't use his Sinnoh team against Paul? Is it some silly nostalgia dream to bring back his old Pokés to crush him or what?
 
Remember when Gary's Eevee beat Ash's Pikachu?
Did Ash's Pikachu get revenge on Gary's Umbreon in the Johto leauge?

I'm just saying I don't think revenge kills are a big deal, Except in Gym rematches
 
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saladbar112

Gliscor Returns!
Remember when Gary's Eevee beat Ash's Pikachu?
Did Ash's Pikachu get revenge on Gary's Umbreon in the Johto leauge?

I'm just saying I don't think revenge kills are a big deal, Except in Gym rematches

Well see I dont really see that as a good example because, as much as I remember, Umbreon and Pikachu never really had much story of a rivalry. I do not remember Pikachu ever expressing constantly feelings of revenge towards Umbreon.

Stories with revenge in Sinnoh are more focused and shown at more than one time. Turtwig/Grotle/Torterra has shown feelings of revenge towards Honchkrow at more than one time.
 

Cazak

When Wings Fly High
Yeah I agree with saladbar. There was never rivalry among poke'mon back in the Johto days(apart from Chikoriat who was jealous when Ash was closer to Pikachu), however now there are poke'mon in ash's team who have a rivalry with Paul's pokemon, so that could be interesting to watch in the league battle.
 

Lucario At Service

Calm Trainer
I get the feeling you didn't read my post properly.
I think he never reads the posts completely. The only things he looks for in everyone's posts are the words "Johto", "Pokemon", "redeem", and words that relate to the Johto pokemons and them being weak.
Thats all he needs to make a post, and repeat the things he has to say about Johto (just check his post on his account & you will see that each & everyone of his posts are the same). I don't know when he is going to stop doing this and post things properly. This is his 5th or 6th account in the last 1-2 month if i am right. How many is he going to make in the future i don't know.
 

thunderblade12

Well-Known Member
Well see I dont really see that as a good example because, as much as I remember, Umbreon and Pikachu never really had much story of a rivalry. I do not remember Pikachu ever expressing constantly feelings of revenge towards Umbreon.

Stories with revenge in Sinnoh are more focused and shown at more than one time. Turtwig/Grotle/Torterra has shown feelings of revenge towards Honchkrow at more than one time.

Yeah but it and Infernape are really the only ones that need "revenge." Pikachu settled whatever rivalry it had with Electabuzz. I'd say it has more of a rivalry with Infernape now.


TBH I really don't care to see any of the pokemon we didn't think were going to be used. Heracross was one of the only three I kinda wanted to get a battle. Sceptile and Kingler are the other two. Tauros just charges around and Swellow is like a watered down, less interesting version of Staraptor. Unless it gained Sky Attack or something while at Oak's lab.
 

Pepsi_Plunge

Dojyaaa~~aan
When i talk about rivalry is the trainer and the team as a whole you guys are trying to deny something by saying Torterra doesnt have a rivalry with Honchkrow(y it doesnt) by saying Gliscor not having a rivalry with the other Gliscor wich is also true they dont havea rivalry.

Point is the TEAM as a WHOLE along with the trainer have a rivalry with Paul, thats the reason for Gliscor to come back because during the entire region him and the resto of the team as a WHOLE had the rivalry along with their trainer.
 

saar

Shiny Flygon
Point is the TEAM as a WHOLE along with the trainer have a rivalry with Paul, thats the reason for Gliscor to come back because during the entire region him and the resto of the team as a WHOLE had the rivalry along with their trainer.

I think you are wrong here Pepsi, you forgot Gary's Eevee had a rivalry with Ash's Pikachu and they both haven't been used so having a rivalry doesn't mean they will be used.

Gliscor might return yeah but I think Ash will use Gible VS Paul, because if not, the fans won't like it. If Ash will use both Gible and Gliscor against Paul, I'll be very happy.
 

saladbar112

Gliscor Returns!
When i talk about rivalry is the trainer and the team as a whole you guys are trying to deny something by saying Torterra doesnt have a rivalry with Honchkrow(y it doesnt) by saying Gliscor not having a rivalry with the other Gliscor wich is also true they dont havea rivalry.

Point is the TEAM as a WHOLE along with the trainer have a rivalry with Paul, thats the reason for Gliscor to come back because during the entire region him and the resto of the team as a WHOLE had the rivalry along with their trainer.

100% true and I agree. After that full battle with Paul, Ash's team as a whole has a rivalry with Paul's team. If Ash's team isnt the same as his team during that battle (not counting evolutions) then the rivalry is not there. Unless Pikachu, Infernape, Torterra, Buizel, Staraptor, and GLISCOR are in that battle, it is not a rivalry. None of those 6 can be missing from this battle.
 
I think Ash's Sinnoh Team should be the ones able to face Paul. No reserves, either the ones from the opening or any that weren't in the opening. Just the Sinnoh pokemon and Pikachu. Now whether or not the sixth member is Gible or Gliscor is a whole different story but I do think that Ash's pokemon that he had throughout Sinnoh should be the pokemon he should use against Paul.

I understand that it's more logical if Ash would use his reserves. I mean Charizard is a great pokemon that always comes through for Ash. Sceptile and Swellow have certainly shown a lot of their awesomeness during AG. Snorlax is a powerhouse, Glalie never "lost" a match in a league yet, and Donphan helped out in the BF beating Lucy's signature pokemon and its typing, attacks, and defenses would be perfect against Paul's Electabuzz (a pokemon that seems to be considered one of his signature pokemon). A team with them and Paul could be beaten pretty easily.

However, story wise, the team that should battle Paul should be Ash's Sinnoh team. The battle in the Sinnoh league will prove which style of training is better. Paul's style is to get the strongest of the strongest and to rotate his pokemon in order to get the best advantage. Ash's is to work with his pokemon and train with them no matter what kind of pokemon they are. If Ash uses his reserves against Paul, he wouldn't be proving anything. Ash can use as many reserves for other matches but I think the one vs. Paul should be all Sinnoh and Pikachu. Besides, it's more dramatic if it's the Sinnoh team vs. Paul.

These are the pokemon that have been with Ash thoughout the whole Sinnoh region. And what better way to show how far they have come than a battle with Ash's main rival in the Sinnoh region: Paul. I mean it's obvious that Infernape would be used. Paul even said that he wanted to battle against Infernape. It's just the others that are in debate and I feel that instead of reserves, it should be the other Sinnoh pokemon.

This is Torterra's chance to shine as well. After being beaten by Paul and struggling to find a style of battling that suits it, this could be where it can use its defenses to its advantage. Not to mention, it could surprise Paul not only because it evolved, but Ash could use his Energy Ball tactics against Paul and I'm sure Paul has never seen that move before. Staraptor already beat one of Paul's pokemon but I think it needs more battles. Unlike Swellow, it hasn't starred in any gym matches or other battles (it has never been the last pokemon standing). And I doubt it would be the last pokemon standing in the Paul match but at least let it get some battles and wins in you know?

Pikachu should finally beat Paul as well. I mean it stuck around throughout the whole Paul vs. Ash rivalry, it'd be nice to see it go up against Paul and win. Sure that didn't apply to Ash's rivalry with Gary but hey, things change and the writing in terms of characters' rivalries have differed a bit. I feel like Pikachu deserves the match against Paul. And then there's Buizel. It just learned Ice Punch, if all the reserves shine in the non-Paul matches, then at least let Buizel get a win against Paul.

The only one questionable is Gible. It hasn't even met Paul and you'd think that Ash could also use Gliscor in the last Paul match. Thing is, if Ash uses Gliscor, he wouldn't be proving anything because another trainer trained Gliscor prior to facing Paul. But Gible's not that strong so how could it help Ash?

I'm not sure how the writers would handle that but I think Gible could have a chance against Paul. It may not win, but it certainly could help out. Maybe Gible can perfect Draco Meteor before the Paul match and it helps weaken one of his pokemon. And I think Gible's a perfect choice for those who think Ash shouldn't use the same pokemon he used in the last 6 vs. 6 battle with Paul because he replaced Gliscor, but still ends up being a Sinnoh pokemon so it's not like a reserve or anything. Also, Gible hasn't even faced a gym so it wouldn't hurt to get in a couple more battles before it may get Oak'd before Isshu.

The Ash vs. Paul is the climax of DP and it would be better if the pokemon involved in Ash's adventure in the Sinnoh shine in this match. So that means his current team (maybe even Gliscor but I'm not sure about that) deserves to face Paul.

All the other reserves can face other trainers. The trainer that owns the legendary, Conway, or any other character of the days that Ash might battle...that's when the reserves can show their stuff. Whether or not the reserves were in the opening, or not, I see them in any non-Paul battles. Overall, I'd really like to have the Sinnoh pokemon have a shining moment as a team and the Paul battle would be the perfect time for that moment.
 
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