So Much Empty Space...

[Edymnion]

Accourding to Wikipedia, the maximum usable space that the GBA could handle was 32 megabytes. And for contrast, the N64 carts were typically 32 megabytes in size, with the largest carts hitting 64 meg.

The DS cards max out at ~125 meg, meaning they are roughly four times the size of the largest possible GBA games.

So, my question is, just what exactly is Diamond/Pearl doing with all this extra space, if anything? Except for some pseudo-3D overland maps, it doesn't appear to have any visual upgrads over the GBA generation of games at all. Only minor upgrades to sprites, but its nowhere near four times better.

So, there's the question. With Diamond and Pearl being only a minor technical advancement over the previous generation, what is it using the rest of the vast space on the card for, or is it wasting that space?

The overworld map is still just a glorified tiled table, the pokemon are still static sprites, and everything else. I haven't seen anything but the almost-3D overworld that even looks like its not running on a GBA.

So, why the wasted space? Why was it even done in the old format when the new hardware is more than capable of running the game in full 3D? These cards are capable of holding both Perfect Dark and Zelda: Ocarina of Time at the same time, and if Metroid Hunters and FFIII are any indication, more than capable of running them. So why, with all this space and hardware power, are we still getting a game that looks like its on the last generation of handheld?

 

[Chris]

We don't even know how big Diamond/Pearl will be exactly.

 

[Kabuto]

I think the space will be used for more towns, and areas to explore to make the game longer.

 

[Edymnion]

I think the space will be used for more towns, and areas to explore to make the game longer.

But thats just it. Towns and areas to explore don't take up much space when it comes to storage.

All of the overworld is essentially a large table, with each cell filled with a tile. Once you have created the tiles, you don't have to make and store areas individually, you just put the tile entries into the table and it displays what you made. All you have to do is store the string of numbers that make up the table.

For example, lets say I had made three kinds of tile, ocean, beach, and grass.
Now, lets say I number those tiles 1, 2, and 3, respectively.

Now, if I want to make an island in a 5x5 world map, I wouldn't have to draw a 5x5 island and store it as an image, I would only need to use 25 numbers to describe it in the table.

11111
12221
12321
12221
11111

There, I have my island. A grass square surrounded by beach, sitting in the water. That is roughly what the pokemon games use to make all of their maps, just with a lot more tiles and a much bigger map.

So, once you make the individual tiles, the size of the map becomes almost inconsequential, as the amount of space required to store the map table will likely be less space than is required to store just one or two of the tiles.

Its also essentially the same situation for the story. All the "story" is, in technical terms, is text and a few sprite movement commands. Filling up 90 something extra meg of space with just overland and storyline, at the normal pace of a pokemon game, would likely mean we wouldn't live long enough to read/see it all. Not to mention our teams hitting lvl 100 long before the end of the story line.

No, either there is something in this game that is eating a LOT of memory, like fully animated sprites (which we know we don't have), or video clips, or some major memory hog, that there are a thousand plus new pokemon, or this game isn't going to live up to the potential the DS hardware specs allow it to have.

Heh, not like I won't be first in line to get my copy when it comes out, but I'm already a bit dissappointed that Nintendo didn't push the hardware envelope with the one game that is garunteed to sell the DS Lite to the masses.

 

[Pirate Crash]

remember there are also maybe like 4 times more cities in DP and alot of pokemon in total.......graphics do take alot of space too

 

[Chris]

None of the Pokemon games ever push their handhelds to their limits, to begin with. They're struggling enough to bring the games out on Sept. 28.

 

[Mysticalman Luigi]

Do you have any idea how much space all that pokemon data takes ?
l think not ....actually ,l am quite sure you do not ,l have no idea either ....
But there is a chance that thay don't wasted the space ,that all those pokemon with their wite ,attacks ,abilities ,gender defferences ,and so on take it ....

 

[IrkenAdolescent]

Do you have any idea how much space all that pokemon data takes ?
l think not ....actually ,l am quite sure you do not ,l have no idea either ....
But there is a chance that thay don't wasted the space ,that all those pokemon with their wite ,attacks ,abilities ,gender defferences ,and so on take it ....

Most of that is just images. Those don't take up much space at all.

 

[malcolm_n]

remember there are also maybe like 4 times more cities in DP and alot of pokemon in total.......graphics do take alot of space too

well, we've confirmed now that there are at least 17 towns/cities from the map of Shinou that we have. That doesn't include caves and other eccentricities out there. But, weather (snow, rain, sun) and time (morning, noon, evening, night) all take up extra space because of shading and placing of extra pixels.

If the dress up feature is viewable in battle, that's space (pictures and placement coding such as item x goes over pokemon y and places itself between axis a and b, rotating to point g). That's space on each pokemon (400+ confirmed) and may change depending on gender (bigger head, etc).

I think we'll see this game fully utilize all that the DS has to offer, as Nintendo has stated. This, of course, should include it's available space.

*jokingly* maybe that's why parukia is the space ruling pokemon. He's going to take up whatever is left of the space on the DS cartridge

 

[IrkenAdolescent]

Yipes, I forgot about the dress-up thing.

 

[Chris]

Not only do we have the dress up options, but also the fact that the Pokemon with two genders will each have two different sprites (along with any animations coming out of the ball, and not including the Nido line). That's quite a heavy amount of sprites right there.

 

[ZTcrazy]

And ya never know, there could be more that we might see to DP. Different weather features, the Poketechi and new battle factors and all sorts of things. I bet they'll use up the space effectively, even if it isn't 3D.

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

I suppose the dress-up thing may make a difference...

 

[starterlover1]

I'm sure that the space is being put to good use, we don't even know all of the region yet. Also remember that there may be more things we don't know of yet.

 

[Zoramon089]

Accourding to Wikipedia, the maximum usable space that the GBA could handle was 32 megabytes. And for contrast, the N64 carts were typically 32 megabytes in size, with the largest carts hitting 64 meg.

The DS cards max out at ~125 meg, meaning they are roughly four times the size of the largest possible GBA games.

So, my question is, just what exactly is Diamond/Pearl doing with all this extra space, if anything? Except for some pseudo-3D overland maps, it doesn't appear to have any visual upgrads over the GBA generation of games at all. Only minor upgrades to sprites, but its nowhere near four times better.

http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=123399

And you have to remember, theres 400+ attack animations (always same number of pokemon and new attacks) over 1200 pokemon battle sprites (back, male, female), trainer sprites (in and out of battle), box animations for pokemon, attack data. Theres tons of stuff

 

[ShinyFufu]

Wait, we can costumize how the main character looks? 1337n3ss!!11!!!

Anyways, there are a lot more pokemon now, and they each have to learn moves at certain levels, evolve, then those pokemon learn moves at different levels. Now, there are like 500 pokemon, that takes up quite a bit of space IMO. And we have like 18-20 cities, and many caves and weather. Then there is the Wi-Fi... and all that other good stuff. And games don't usually fill their space up to the maximum.

 

[cunn!ng]

Since pokemon sprites are only "Emerald like" animated, I hope they'll spend the space for 3D moves.

 

[Akerin]

Wait, we can costumize how the main character looks? 1337n3ss!!11!!!

You can't customize that, but it appears you can dress up your Pokemon. I think that part will only be for contests though.. *shrugs*

 

[Fiangard]

It'd be cool to see some 3D. With the dress up thing, no ones Pokemon will look the same in WiFi. With the sprites and all there is a ton of them. Overworld, Battle front/back/female/male/shinyfemale/shinymale. Even if it comes to like 500 pokemon in all, thats still 4000 sprites ._. then add onto that any movement the pokemon do. Also effects- example Cherimu (the eggplant ).

 

[ghost master]

As stated before we dont know everything and we wont know anything till its released and we get details about the game. For all we know the game will 50+ hours. This isnt likely at all though.