So what do you all think of Alain?

[Pikachu52]

So... you call Alain a Gary Stu... a character with flaws, with development (at least in the Mega Specials) and with many people who treat him badly, simply using him as a tool. This character is a Gary Stu, but not Ash? The one who you always go on about as being strong, handsome, inspirational, etc etc etc, while not saying there is anything wrong with him at all? Don't you think that's just a little hypocritical? I mean, you could say "but Ash never won the league!" But then I'd say "by the end of it, Ash didn't seem to mind at all! And everyone except the generic villains still love him! And he has barely any flaws!"

The term stu or sue, particularly given it's lack of clear definition and use as a derogatory term, might not be the best ones to use to describe Alain.

Overpowered might be a better description. Things like entering the league just to battle Ash, going on to win the league despite having little interest in it, 10 Mega evolution battle victories in a row, and getting the 8 gym badges almost overnight, are beyond what's typical of the Pokémon cannon to a degree that they make it feel unrealistic.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Alain wished he was a Stu.

His Charizard is the REAL Stu. That dragon has no flaws!

 

[Wednesdayz]

His Charizard is the REAL Stu. That dragon has no flaws!

Didn't it get tossed aside like a rag doll by Mega Slowbro of all things in one of Act 2's pre-release trailers?

 

[satopi]

Didn't it get tossed aside like a rag doll by Mega Slowbro of all things in one of Act 2's pre-release trailers?

It got tossed around by the Primals and Mega Blastoise. Even with that, it certainly doesn't protect it from being a Stu. ^^;

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Didn't it get tossed aside like a rag doll by Mega Slowbro of all things in one of Act 2's pre-release trailers?

Those previews were pretty much ORAS promotion that had it be smacked around to "showcase" the power of new MEs.

It got tossed around by the Primals and Mega Blastoise. Even with that, it certainly doesn't protect it from being a Stu. ^^;

Legendaries don't count. They get free passes.

As for the Blastoise, that's when its Stuness started proper.

 

[Genaller]

Didn't it get tossed aside like a rag doll by Mega Slowbro of all things in one of Act 2's pre-release trailers?

Well technically post ME ACT 4 MC-X would probably classify as a Stu when only looking at its performances in ME ACT 4 and beyond; however, overall it would be inaccurate to call Alain's Charizard a Stu when taking the full narrative (starting from ME ACT 1) into account.

 

[RedJirachi]

I feel people need to put aside the fact he defeated Ash when he was the closest he ever got to defeating a (non-filler) league

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

I feel people need to put aside the fact he defeated Ash when he was the closest he ever got to defeating a (non-filler) league

Doesn't mean all those skipped battles was a good move. Ash only had two battles fully shown. It's like they wanted to get it over with for Ash.

 

[Shadao]

A character deconstruction of a trainer who wants to be the best like no one ever was, as well as the imagery of what a good amount of fans perceived to be a "great" trainer. He is what you would expect from a fan's demand for an older and more badass protagonist, who focused more on battles and winning then making any friendship. A good foil to an actual ideal trainer in the form of Ash. For that, I truly like Alain as a character.

However, I will never acknowledge him as a champion of any kind for his misdeeds, intentional or unintentional. He had his shot in the final League battle for a epiphany, but failed to learn anything. His failure to learn the truth about everything until long after Team Flare made its move has already made him unworthy. Highly skilled or not, if he has to learn anything from the runner-up in order to correct big mistakes post-League, his win and trophy are essentially meaningless.

Which of course means that Alain always be inferior to Ash as a Pokémon Trainer in my eyes.

 

[CaptainLuky]

I agree with Shadao, I never understood why he won the league too... It was totally stupid for his character development...

 

[satopi]

I agree with Shadao, I never understood why he won the league too... It was totally stupid for his character development...

Gotta add some ground to his dream crusher status. I thought it was really stupid and unnecessary for him to enter the League as well. His reasoning was as senseless as his decision making.

 

[Satomine Night]

A character deconstruction of a trainer who wants to be the best like no one ever was, as well as the imagery of what a good amount of fans perceived to be a "great" trainer. He is what you would expect from a fan's demand for an older and more badass protagonist, who focused more on battles and winning then making any friendship. A good foil to an actual ideal trainer in the form of Ash. For that, I truly like Alain as a character.

I agree with the idea of Alain being a character deconstruction of a Trainer who wants to be the best and fits what fans perceive as a "great" Trainer, focused more on battles and winning than on making friends. It made him the complete opposite of and an interesting foil to Ash, and it's for those reasons that I truly like Alain as a character, as well. However, the writers fumbled with his character when they shoved him into the League.

Gotta add some ground to his dream crusher status. I thought it was really stupid and unnecessary for him to enter the League as well. His reasoning was as senseless as his decision making.

That's why I think it would have been better if Lysandre had ordered Alain to enter the League to gather Mega Evolution energy from the Mega Evolved Pokémon participating. That would have actually made sense, compared to Alain's sudden, nonsensical desire to enter the League just to battle Ash. Alain still could have earned his badges legitimately, because he would have preferred to do that than, say, for Malva to use her status as one of the Elite 4 to get Alain into the League.

 

[satopi]

That's why I think it would have been better if Lysandre had ordered Alain to enter the League to gather Mega Evolution energy from the Mega Evolved Pokémon participating. That would have actually made sense, compared to Alain's sudden, nonsensical desire to enter the League just to battle Ash. Alain still could have earned his badges legitimately, because he would have preferred to do that than, say, for Malva to use her status as one of the Elite 4 to get Alain into the League.

I liked everyone's idea of him obtaining fake badges and entering the League illegally through other means but yeah, that would've caused backlash. Even with that, there was still no point in him entering the League to begin with. Just wasting his time defeating trash trainers and giving him something to do as he waits to battle someone he wanted to wreck on national tv.

 

[Satomine Night]

I liked everyone's idea of him obtaining fake badges and entering the League illegally through other means but yeah, that would've caused backlash. Even with that, there was still no point in him entering the League to begin with. Just wasting his time defeating trash trainers and giving him something to do as he waits to battle someone he wanted to wreck on national tv.

I'm not sure Alain obtaining fake badges or using his connection to Malva to enter the League illegally would have caused that much backlash...would it? However, it would have been out of character, so that's why I think he still would have wanted to earn his badges legally.

Alain worked for the villains; he was set up to be an eventual antagonist to Ash. He was never interested in entering the League; he was only interested in battling powerful Trainers, getting stronger, and doing what he could to save Chespie. There was no reason for him to enter the League unless it was under Lysandre's orders, so I think it's a shame the writers didn't take that route. It would have made his character more interesting, as it would have shown the lengths to which he would go in order to protect those he loved. It wouldn't have changed the eventual outcome. Alain could still have won the League, he still could have helped during the Team Flare climax, etc.

 

[satopi]

I'm not sure Alain obtaining fake badges or using his connection to Malva to enter the League illegally would have caused that much backlash...would it? However, it would have been out of character, so that's why I think he still would have wanted to earn his badges legally.

Alain worked for the villains; he was set up to be an eventual antagonist to Ash. He was never interested in entering the League; he was only interested in battling powerful Trainers, getting stronger, and doing what he could to save Chespie. There was no reason for him to enter the League unless it was under Lysandre's orders, so I think it's a shame the writers didn't take that route. It would have made his character more interesting, as it would have shown the lengths to which he would go in order to protect those he loved. It wouldn't have changed the eventual outcome. Alain could still have won the League, he still could have helped during the Team Flare climax, etc.

I agree though they should've made him go "out of character" to show how far off he's gone. He'll still go through great lengths to protect the ones he loves but not the way people would imagine he'd go. I'm sure he wouldn't even realize he's gone the wrong path as he's too focused on getting stronger and defeating those who get in his way. It would've been a lot more interesting and suspenseful to see him not be some goody two shoes who did everything the right way like he was in the main anime. They should've stuck him in his ME specials persona and had him meet Ash as an antagonist than a "friend" he battled with 3 times and became touched by his words. Seriously, that opening is a red herring now that it didn't go the way they may have originally planned due to time constricts.

 

[ZilverLox]

I didn't like how Alain was a Mary Sue during XYZ, but he was better during his specials since he wasn't as overrated back then.

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

I didn't like how Alain was a Mary Sue during XYZ, but he was better during his specials since he wasn't as overrated back then.

I don't think he was a Gary Stu, but I do agree that he was alot better of a character in the mega evolution specials. I really don't like that they made him enter the league as it was something that I didn't want to see nor did it really make sense especially for him to win it.

 

[Janovy]

I didn't like how Alain was a Mary Sue during XYZ, but he was better during his specials since he wasn't as overrated back then.

Really?

I swear I saw like billions of 'more badass in 20 minutes than Ash in 20 years' posts after the first ME special aired.

 

[Satomine Night]

I agree though they should've made him go "out of character" to show how far off he's gone. He'll still go through great lengths to protect the ones he loves but not the way people would imagine he'd go. I'm sure he wouldn't even realize he's gone the wrong path as he's too focused on getting stronger and defeating those who get in his way. It would've been a lot more interesting and suspenseful to see him not be some goody two shoes who did everything the right way like he was in the main anime. They should've stuck him in his ME specials persona and had him meet Ash as an antagonist than a "friend" he battled with 3 times and became touched by his words. Seriously, that opening is a red herring now that it didn't go the way they may have originally planned due to time constricts.

I (respectfully) disagree that the writers needed to make Alain out of character and have him willingly accept entrance into the League through illegal means. That wasn't really necessary to present him as an antagonist to Ash, nor was it necessary to show how far gone he was. IMO, what made Alain so interesting a character was that he had a sort of grayish morality. He was a good person at heart, but he made some questionable, if not outright poor, decisions, and he didn't question the "rightness" of what was asked of him. He seemingly had no problems helping Team Flare capture Z2; he didn't even question why they were encasing this poor Pokémon in a box. He just stood there as the Team Flare admins knocked out and restrained Ash, and he did nothing while they were being transported to Prism Tower. In a way, those examples show how far gone Alain was. He was never a goody two shoes in the first place. If the writers had taken that one step further and made Alain side with Lysandre first, and then maybe change his mind and side with Ash, I think that would have been a lot better.

 

[TheWanderingMist]

If he hadn't won the League, this thread wouldn't exist. I think he was good as a character. Being a Sue is somewhat subjective but clearly overused in regards to him. His Charizard, on the other hand...