stall.

[Loputousu]

The fact that it cant recover wasnt the point, the point being that it counters Azelf just fine was the issue. Some Azelf are known to run Focus Sash and Choice Scarf as well, and some Leftovers as well. The fact that its slow doesnt mean it cant recover, Blissey also falls under that category yet it can recover, that doesnt prove much of anything really

It doesn't always counter Azelf "just fine", sometimes it doesn't pack Crunch, and as far as I can remember Alzi's Snorlax has Crunch, while it should have Body Slam instead or something. No, it doesn't mean it can't recover, but faster and very hard hitting pokemon like Garchomp don't give it a chance to recover, that was what I tried to say.

hence "especially if it doesnt have..."

Again that wasnt the point, as much as its aptitude to combat Gengar is

It's very rare for Blissey to not carry Ice Beam, Flamethrower or Thunder Wave. She is usually a good counter for Gengar. You say she might be slept, however with prediction a Sleep Talker should take Hypnosis and keep it so that Sleep Clause is still around.

You seem to take it upon yourself to think that your opinion is that of the entire whole, but i'm digressing...

If more people use Mixape, then more people think it is better. It's simply common sense.

I took it as: They take half its HP and switch out to a physical sweeper, which is what people do with Blissey as well anyway. Lax can just Rest as they switch in said sweeper

The only things that can take half of Blissey's HP (special) is like, SpecsLuke or SpecsPorygon-Z. And both are needed to constantly switch to see which move it is using, so Blissey might not be on the field when the physical sweeper comes in. Anyway, if a physical sweeper lowers it to 40%, then that's just stupid because Blissey shouldn't take a physical hit. Let's say it like this: Salamence used Draco Meteor! Blissey comes in and takes the damage! Blissey has, say, 30% left. Salamence switches to Heracross while Blissey uses Wish! Blissey used Protect! Blissey switched out! And after you use Rest on Snorlax he's not as helpful anymore because you don't know which move he's going to use and he becomes unreliable.

Little dash of element of surprise my friend, gives you an advantage over others

You say little, which means a little advantage. A worse set isn't worth a little surprise.

Pain Spit's effectiveness wasnt the point, the point was using Rest leaves you open to an obvious threat switch in and set up, according to you. Yet you suggested ResTalk on Spiritomb. The current set is fine as it deals with Deoxys-E and Azelf.

Yes it was the point. I suggested Resttalk because he had Toxic Spikes which conflicts with WoW which he doesn't need. So if he gets rid of WoW and Pain Split, wouldn't Resttalk be a superior option? Because if Pain Split is low tier, Rest is mid tier, Rest would be better, because Spiritomb has NO BETTER RECOVERY OPTION. Sleep Talk should also go over WoW then.

Its funny how you assume everybody here doesnt know about Smogon or Shoddy or has absolutely no experience in competitive battling. The OP does know what he is doing to a good extent

Yeah, with Choice Scarf Tentacruel, Sleep Talk Snorlax in a stall team, he knows a lot of what he is doing.

We're going off topic, so can we stop?

 

[Alzi]

I lol'ed.

I had blissey before but it really isn't so good on a stall team without wish. I could easily get wish onto it on shoddy but remeber i'm also going to train this team up on diamond so i cannot get no were near a wish blissey.

The only reason i went snorlax > blissey is to be a little bit diffrent and it takes status for me. I could of gone skarm since spikes + whirlwind is nice but then again too standard so my team will be skarm bliss and many people can counter it easy. Wish + Protect is there on jirachi so it can heal and stall since it will have reflect support from forretress so yeah no need to give jirachi reflect. And i went scarf tentacruel since it's the only thing that can help me take down garchomp and so it can set up toxic spikes quicker. Will-o-Wisp on Spiritomb is there for things that absorb toxic spikes but i was thinking maybe Hypnosis > Will-o-Wisp so tentacruel can set up toxic spikes quicker. Not the best stall teams out there but it works and looks diffrent to others.

And Danbaru's what should the tentacruel ev's be if i wanted 84 sp.atk so it can atleast do somthing?

 

[Danbaru's]

252 HP/ 24 Spd/ 84 SAtk/ 148 SDef should work. Unfortunately, this makes countering ScarfHeatran somewhat difficult because while it originally falls short of a 2HKO, the Sand will finish Tentacruel off half of the time. Of course, you have Snorlax for this, so it shouldn't be much of a problem.

 

[Loputousu]

I had blissey before but it really isn't so good on a stall team without wish. I could easily get wish onto it on shoddy but remeber i'm also going to train this team up on diamond so i cannot get no were near a wish blissey.

The only reason i went snorlax > blissey is to be a little bit diffrent and it takes status for me. I could of gone skarm since spikes + whirlwind is nice but then again too standard so my team will be skarm bliss and many people can counter it easy. Wish + Protect is there on jirachi so it can heal and stall since it will have reflect support from forretress so yeah no need to give jirachi reflect. And i went scarf tentacruel since it's the only thing that can help me take down garchomp and so it can set up toxic spikes quicker. Will-o-Wisp on Spiritomb is there for things that absorb toxic spikes but i was thinking maybe Hypnosis > Will-o-Wisp so tentacruel can set up toxic spikes quicker. Not the best stall teams out there but it works and looks diffrent to others.

Hm.. some people do sell Wish Happiny or whatever in a lot of places. You should try and find one, although the worth may be alot, it will help you tremendously later on. Also, try your team first on Shoddy to see if it functions well.

EDIT: I found a Wish Chansey, and I'll give you the link if you want.

Blissey can take status, well, not really, but she does have Natural Cure.

..... SkarmBliss is countered easily? Are you kidding? Even if it is, a good team should have ways to counter the counter. Forretress is extremely standard, so is Jirachi, Sleep Talk Snorlax, Hippowdon, Spiritomb, the only thing non-standard is that you have Choice Scarf Tentacruel, and even that's OU. You try to be non-standard but every pokemon you have is OU and their sets are commonly used. You have to be "bog" standard if you want to be successful unless you are extremely creative and make successful movesets.

I will just say that any Yache Berry Garchomp will utterly annihilate you, they are getting much more common. Skarmory helps counter him, so I again suggest Skarmory over Forretress and put Rapid Spin on Tentacruel.

 

[Alzi]

I don't have wi-fi at the moment i will be getting it some time when brawl comes out in australia. If i go skarm > Forretress then i have bigger problems against gyara. As you can see...

I can go rapid spin > Knock off on tentacruel but what's the point when forretress does it better.

And most of the Garchomps i've seen run fire blast. And for garchomp i just can't hurt it unless i am lucky enough to have some layer of spikes down. And should i go Hypnosis > Will-o-Wisp?

And edited EV's on Tentacruel. How's the team looking so far?

 

[Loputousu]

I don't have wi-fi at the moment i will be getting it some time when brawl comes out in australia. If i go skarm > Forretress then i have bigger problems against gyara. As you can see...

I can go rapid spin > Knock off on tentacruel but what's the point when forretress does it better.

And most of the Garchomps i've seen run fire blast. And for garchomp i just can't hurt it unless i am lucky enough to have some layer of spikes down. And should i go Hypnosis > Will-o-Wisp?

And edited EV's on Tentacruel. How's the team looking so far?

If Skarmory has Brave Bird, he usually beats non-Bulky Gyarados which is much more common on WiFi, in my experience, Skarmory never lost to a non-Bulky one.

I said you should use Rapid Spin on Tenta if you put Skarm over Forretress.

In Shoddy Battle, most Garchomp's run Fire Fang, in fact, they should, click here.

 

[Blue_Harvest]

Scarf Rapid Spin is generally ineffective on Tentacruel.

Spin Blockers work much better when Tenta can not switch moves. On the other hand, its not like Tentacruel has many other options except filler moves or Hidden Power.

 

[Loputousu]

I said to put Leftovers over Choice Scarf on my first post.

 

[Blue_Harvest]

Why? He has wish support, and Tentacruel prevents Infernape and Garchomp from eating his team alive.

I used both Choice Scarf, and Leftovers Tentacruel. From my stall team experiences, Tentacruel makes a great surprise / revenge killer, and once it gets predictable you can out predict and get more Toxic Spikes down. Rapid Spinners are not completely needed on a stall team as long as you have TS protection.

Even so, he still has the option of putting Rapid Spin on it.

 

[Alzi]

Ok if i go skarm > forretress then i loose reflect support for jirachi but i gain whirlwind and another earthquake blocker.

Ok i will test it on shoddy with skarm > forry and see if it works better and i will give tentacruel rapid spin over knock off since i never seem to get a knock on in.

I will come back later and tell you if it worked or not.

Edit: Ok i went skarm > Forretress on shoddy and it gives me more defense over scizor and celebi but i havn't battled a gyara yet. So should i just go skarmory > Forretress or should i just keep forretress?

 

[Loputousu]

Put Leftovers on Tentacruel aswell, and put Reflect over Protect for Jirachi. Protect really isn't needed.

Why? He has wish support, and Tentacruel prevents Infernape and Garchomp from eating his team alive.

I used both Choice Scarf, and Leftovers Tentacruel. From my stall team experiences, Tentacruel makes a great surprise / revenge killer, and once it gets predictable you can out predict and get more Toxic Spikes down. Rapid Spinners are not completely needed on a stall team as long as you have TS protection.

Even so, he still has the option of putting Rapid Spin on it.

Skarmory + Hippowdon should counter Garchomp along with Toxic Spikes and Tentacruel with Lefties and Rapid Spin should counter Infernape. He doesn't need Choice Scarf.

Rapid spinners are 100% needed in a stall team, because you can't stall if you keep on taking damage everytime you switch and get poisoned.

 

[Blue_Harvest]

You won't get poisoned because Tentacruel sucks up TS. You won't get worn down quickly because of recovery moves.

Skarmory is 2HKOed by Fire Blast, and Hippowdon is 2HKOed by Swords Danced Outrage.

Neither win one on one (Skarmory can just Whirlwind it, but thats only if it doesn't switch in on Fire Blast), and with some residual damage he could be in trouble. Also if Hippo or Skarmory dies its practically game over to a SD chomp.

There is still the somewhat rare chance of Chain Chomp.

Infernape can hit Tentacruel very hard with Thunder Punch. If a non scarf Tentacruel switches in on Fire Blast, it just gets 2HKOed by Thunder Punch. Surf will not OHKO. Tentacruel being faster with Scarf at least makes sure it gets off a hit, and makes it so Dugtrio is not simply a "free kill".

 

[Alzi]

Choice Scarf has helped me alot on shoddy to finish of weak tyranitars etc and has fooled alot of users.

I need protect on jirachi since it cannot recover itself so well. I've been testing skarm instead of forretress it's helping me alittle as it has whirlwind but it does ok when trying to kill gyara but i still have this feeling my team will be gyara weak a little. And i'm think of using a diffrent spiritomb set any suggestions?

I'll try reflect on jirachi after..

 

[Blue_Harvest]

^ Aha! ^

Alzi agrees that Scarf Tentacruel is cool!

His team is different from mine in that he has a Wish user. This might make Rapid Spin more viable on Scarf Tenta.

 

[Alzi]

Scarf Tentacruel really isn't all that great but i need it for my team.

And i need suggestions on Skarmory or Forretress?

 

[Lord of Music]

Well as great as ZCForry is, I think all Forrys on a stall team need a more reliable move, Gyro Ball being a perfect example, to really get the job done against fast, hard hitting sweepers that give your walls trouble.

 

[Blue_Harvest]

Scarf Tentacruel really isn't all that great but i need it for my team.

And i need suggestions on Skarmory or Forretress?

You won't say that when he saves you from a rampaging SD Garchomp or Thunderpunch Infernape...

 

[Alzi]

LOM i have no room for gyro ball.

Blue_Harvest yes but many teams will have better counters for them.

Also is there a better set for spiritomb or is the one i am running fine?

 

[Lord of Music]

Hypnosis on the screwed up ghostie.

 

[Loputousu]

You won't say that when he saves you from a rampaging SD Garchomp or Thunderpunch Infernape...

The only way to counter them is to either make a sacrifice or do a huge, risky prediction which, if it doesn't work will get your Tentacruel killed and let your opponent sweep your team.