Star Wars Discussion/Talk Thread

[Navin]

Leia will die like her mother; from a broken heart. It will just come off as better written. Speaking of deaths

Spoiler: Snoke spoilers

I think Snoke wanted Kylo to kill him. I get the idea that unlike Vader, Kylo is a genuine apprentice. Snoke is really old and wounded, he'd die soon anyway. From their interactions last movie, he seems genuinely interested in him. I think Snoke wanted to teach Kylo so that he would prove an effective leader of the First Order when he's dead. Either killing Rey or killing Snoke will be the final step to complete his training and make him worthy.

Why would he do that to himself?

It isn’t really divisive, in that there really isn’t a legitimate mindset that is completely opposed to the movie to the point of calling it trash or whatever. It’s more that there are people who love it, and people who liked it but have legitimate criticisms.

Tell it to this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QJRw56cOVw


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Spoiler: TLJ Spoilers

These new Episodes don't provide any context or scope. Yes, the books talk about politics, but in the films, it just feels like these two random armies fighting each other. I didn't see the purpose of Rose whatsoever. There was no need for some convoluted codebreaking, tracker plot - just make it so that the cruiser tech got compromised due to Finn attacking the dreadnought, and the ship can't go to lightspeed so it's visibly fleeing the FO while still burning fuel. Meanwhile, instead of this dumb casino plot, Leia could send Finn and Poe to go on some diplomatic mission to try and get help but fail there instead. Perhaps go to some planet where there is a makeshift Senate in the wake of the New Republic being destroyed; there, Finn and Poe could see some systems joining the FO, while others are losing hope --> That hope gets reignited after Luke single-handedly stops the FO.

Last Jedi fixated on the themes of failure and letting things go, and it went all-in on those things. To that degree it did succeed, since everyone fails, and there certainly was character development. Obviously not a fan of how they took Luke, or at the very least, there was no reason to just kill him off in this movie.

 

[BCVM22]

Tell it to this guy:

Absolutely not. Giving clicks to people who rant on YouTube about how much they hate stuff is a violation of most major human rights conventions.

I don't know what do you guys and gals think?

I think nothing at this point, largely because Episode IX will again have a different director and writer from the preceding film. Rian Johnson clearly had designs on subverting as many franchise tropes as possible, to good effect; J.J. Abrams does not necessarily share those designs. The drastic shift between the two makes it difficult to discern where they'll take the characters and their arcs.

 

[1rkhachatryan]

I honestly don't get the intense hatred for Rose that's popped up. Seriously I like her as a character, she wants to stop the empire and was willing to do her part to help, I'm not seeing the big issue. So what if she likes Finn, a girls not allowed to have a crush anymore?? Finn was like a hero to her and it's not like Finn and Rey ever did anything.

 

[Manchee]

I think nothing at this point, largely because Episode IX will again have a different director and writer from the preceding film. Rian Johnson clearly had designs on subverting as many franchise tropes as possible, to good effect; J.J. Abrams does not necessarily share those designs. The drastic shift between the two makes it difficult to discern where they'll take the characters and their arcs.

I'm with you on this one. Any series where they change directors and writers between films is always so hard to know what to expect.

I honestly don't get the intense hatred for Rose that's popped up. Seriously I like her as a character, she wants to stop the empire and was willing to do her part to help, I'm not seeing the big issue. So what if she likes Finn, a girls not allowed to have a crush anymore?? Finn was like a hero to her and it's not like Finn and Rey ever did anything.

Her crush on Finn is what made me not like her as much because, like you said, she is a woman who is willing to stop the empire and willing to do her part - her crushing on Finn felt too forced and unnecessary. Up until that point, she is strong-willed and tries her hardest to help in whatever way she can to take down the empire. She was furious at Finn for trying to leave, so why would she have a crush on him by the end of the film? Sure, he "redeemed" himself, I guess, but he doesn't have those qualities in himself that make him viable enough to catch her eye, in my opinion.

also, I think we all know why so many people dislike Rose and her crush on Finn :x

 

[1rkhachatryan]

I'm with you on this one. Any series where they change directors and writers between films is always so hard to know what to expect.



Her crush on Finn is what made me not like her as much because, like you said, she is a woman who is willing to stop the empire and willing to do her part - her crushing on Finn felt too forced and unnecessary. Up until that point, she is strong-willed and tries her hardest to help in whatever way she can to take down the empire. She was furious at Finn for trying to leave, so why would she have a crush on him by the end of the film? Sure, he "redeemed" himself, I guess, but he doesn't have those qualities in himself that make him viable enough to catch her eye, in my opinion.

also, I think we all know why so many people dislike Rose and her crush on Finn :x

She was mad cuz he thought he was deserting the alliance when he was just trying to help Rey. By the end, she ended up liking him, it happens when people spend time together lol. It's hard to explain or understand what makes someone like another person, they could be totally awful but your heart can want them so no reason why she can't like Finn for being brave trying to save his friends.

 

[Manchee]

I can't remember if she knew he was trying to help his friend or not, but it still stands that he was trying to leave in a time when they needed all the help they could get. And yeah, I know he was going to go get help, but Rose still saw him as a traitor, is how I understood it.

I get the reasoning that "they spent time together = she has a crush on him," but my opinion still stands that it feels forced. From a writing perspective, it is way too overused for a male and female character to "like each other" like that just after spending some time together. We don't see them really getting to know each other to the point where she would be comfortable to just kiss him under no pretense that he might reciprocate (which I did enjoy his reaction, it seemed genuinely like, "Uhhh wtf?")

 

[Navin]

I honestly don't get the intense hatred for Rose that's popped up. Seriously I like her as a character, she wants to stop the empire and was willing to do her part to help, I'm not seeing the big issue. So what if she likes Finn, a girls not allowed to have a crush anymore?? Finn was like a hero to her and it's not like Finn and Rey ever did anything.

The actress wasn't bad, but it felt she was trying too hard. It didn't come off naturally as say Adam Driver's Kylo.

Her character wasn't necessary. It could have been Poe and Finn going on the adventure. Also,

Spoiler: Rose

Rose plowing her speeder into Finn's was so stupid. She could have gotten both of them easily killed. Finn sacrificing himself was a great character moment because it showed he was no longer being selfish and was willing to give his life for a cause. If they didn't want him to die, at least make it so some AT shoots him down before he can reach the cannon. Her line about fighting not for what you hate, but for what you love, was also puzzling since Finn was sacrificing himself for all those he cared about (Rey, Poe, Resistance, common man), and not taking out the cannon potentially doomed the Resistance if not for Luke. I mean, isn't that what her sister does at the start of the movie anyway when she sacrifices herself to complete the bombing mission?

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She was mad cuz he thought he was deserting the alliance when he was just trying to help Rey. By the end, she ended up liking him, it happens when people spend time together lol. It's hard to explain or understand what makes someone like another person, they could be totally awful but your heart can want them so no reason why she can't like Finn for being brave trying to save his friends.

It's different when it's a crush versus being depicted as if she was in love with him after only a day. Han and Leia at least knew each other for several years in between ANH and ESB for the romance to happen.

 

[1rkhachatryan]

The actress wasn't bad, but it felt she was trying too hard. It didn't come off naturally as say Adam Driver's Kylo.

Her character wasn't necessary. It could have been Poe and Finn going on the adventure. Also,

Spoiler: Rose

Rose plowing her speeder into Finn's was so stupid. She could have gotten both of them easily killed. Finn sacrificing himself was a great character moment because it showed he was no longer being selfish and was willing to give his life for a cause. If they didn't want him to die, at least make it so some AT shoots him down before he can reach the cannon. Her line about fighting not for what you hate, but for what you love, was also puzzling since Finn was sacrificing himself for all those he cared about (Rey, Poe, Resistance, common man), and not taking out the cannon potentially doomed the Resistance if not for Luke. I mean, isn't that what her sister does at the start of the movie anyway when she sacrifices herself to complete the bombing mission?

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It's different when it's a crush versus being depicted as if she was in love with him after only a day. Han and Leia at least knew each other for several years in between ANH and ESB for the romance to happen.

Kylo the whiny *** brat comes off s natural!?! What ??

Really, a kiss equals love now?? For all she knew, she was about to die, may as well get a kiss in beforehand.

 

[Grey Wind]

Also, Rose plowing her speeder into Finn's was so stupid.

If anything Poe should've been the one saving Finn, given his arc about being impulsive/playing the hero.

 

[Navin]

Kylo the whiny *** brat comes off s natural!?! What ??

Really, a kiss equals love now?? For all she knew, she was about to die, may as well get a kiss in beforehand.

Kylo is the most compelling character in this new trilogy, and Driver pulls off the conflicted personality so well. Driver and Hamill were easily the best two actors in this movie.

C'mon, the film tries to pass it off as her starting to fall in love, even though it's been a day since she's known him, and her first in-person impression of him is that of a deserter who already seems committed to someone.

If anything Poe should've been the one saving Finn, given his arc about being impulsive/playing the hero.

No, because the whole point of Poe pulling back was him finally thinking straight and not being impulsive. Similarly, it's why he chooses to later retreat as well.

 

[1rkhachatryan]

Kylo is the most compelling character in this new trilogy, and Driver pulls off the conflicted personality so well. Driver and Hamill were easily the best two actors in this movie.

C'mon, the film tries to pass it off as her starting to fall in love, even though it's been a day since she's known him, and her first in-person impression of him is that of a deserter who already seems committed to someone.



No, because the whole point of Poe pulling back was him finally thinking straight and not being impulsive. Similarly, it's why he chooses to later retreat as well.

Meh, maybe if they redeem his emo *** but right now he's just a two bit villain throwing temper tantrums every two seconds.

Again, people start getting feelings for people all the time over a short period of time, and they've been through all this traumatic **** and grown closer to each other really quickly. It's not the first or last time it's happened in a movie.

 

[Manchee]

Kylo is the most compelling character in this new trilogy, and Driver pulls off the conflicted personality so well. Driver and Hamill were easily the best two actors in this movie.

Meh, maybe if they redeem his emo *** but right now he's just a two bit villain throwing temper tantrums every two seconds.

I'm going to have to agree with Ryan here. I am not a huge Star Wars fan by any means and mostly see the movies out of a "everyone sees them" mentality, but I try not to take them too seriously. Overall I don't find the storylines that interesting, and a lot of the characters feel one-note. This is true for Kylo Ren as well, and to me he doesn't come across as a big scary villain at all. He's a whiny brat that can't keep his emotions when he doesn't get his way. I'm all about someone letting off steam when they get mad, but when I see him punching walls and breaking things it comes off less as conflicted and more temper tantrum.

Again, people start getting feelings for people all the time over a short period of time, and they've been through all this traumatic **** and grown closer to each other really quickly. It's not the first or last time it's happened in a movie.

I think "in a movie" is the key phrase here. I don't doubt it happens in real life either, but it's too overused as an excuse in movies. Writers and directors need to start thinking of new material and stop giving audiences reasons and storylines that don't make the characters richer. There are so many other possible ways to go with romance! Have Rose start to see Finn's actions and make us want them to grow closer as friends first! Have Finn realize that he should think of other people, and maybe one of those other people are Rose, and then he starts to feel for her! Instead of going a whole movie where the two of them are just working together and then she kisses him at the end "because she almost died and they've been through something traumatic together."

Like, come on. She started as a strong character (crying, yes, but over her sister's death and then promptly tasered Finn's *ss when she thought he was leaving) and progressed in a way that let us see how much she hates the bad guys and everything they're doing in the universe. Her kiss at the end is just desperate, and not needed at the end of that movie. It's like the final matryoshka doll in a set that represents ways the story could have gone romantically - it's disappointing, and there are bigger, better characters arcs that could have been explored.

 

[Klizcool]

I'm going to have to agree with Ryan here. I am not a huge Star Wars fan by any means and mostly see the movies out of a "everyone sees them" mentality, but I try not to take them too seriously. Overall I don't find the storylines that interesting, and a lot of the characters feel one-note. This is true for Kylo Ren as well, and to me he doesn't come across as a big scary villain at all. He's a whiny brat that can't keep his emotions when he doesn't get his way. I'm all about someone letting off steam when they get mad, but when I see him punching walls and breaking things it comes off less as conflicted and more temper tantrum.

I think they want you to see Kylo as a whiny brat because that's the point of his character. In TFA it was annoying but now it just kind of made sense. Kylo Ren was put into a position of leadership by his boss and has no real experience leading snowball down a hill, much less a f*cking army as big as the First Order. Hell, Snoke even outright says that Kylo was supposed to be Darth Vader but instead is a whiny little kid. Vader, and most of the Imperial Command, were experienced, well trained, officers that many even fought in the Clone Wars. Hux basically inherited his position from his father and Kylo was plucked from Luke's academy, before even graduating, and told "you in charge boi." Hux at least has some training and experience behind him, but is still very much like Draco "My father will hear about this" Malfoy but with laser guns. The conflict between Hux being a military leader and Kylo being some ******* told he's in charge is super interesting and will no doubt be major point of interest in IX (Did everyone miss how Hux was about to blast Kylo while he unconscious in Snokes chamber?)
Kylo is a whiny brat because he was given a position he had to earn. This attitude will no doubt fracture the First Order, as we can certainly see how Hux has had enough of Kylo's sh*t already.
And did everyone forget that line about how Rose looked up Finn? Girl sounded like she'd have a poster up in her room with him all over it. Her love for him is probably like how teenage girls love rock stars. He's her hero and she got to meet him, gaze his ***, chill on a casino, almost get executed, and save his life. My guess her adoration love turned into real love as they got to know each other, especially since her character is just some mechanic that doesn't do much.

 

[MugoUrth]

Say, I don't know if this is the right topic to ask this, but is there a website that contains every Star Wars reference ever made in any sort of media? If so, does anyone have a link?

 

[RedJirachi]

Wookiepedia, maybe?

 

[Klizcool]

Say, I don't know if this is the right topic to ask this, but is there a website that contains every Star Wars reference ever made in any sort of media? If so, does anyone have a link?

That's nearly impossible considering how long it's been around

 

[Evanibble]

Say, I don't know if this is the right topic to ask this, but is there a website that contains every Star Wars reference ever made in any sort of media? If so, does anyone have a link?

Yeah, Wookiepedia seems to be the best candidate for this. I've only casually perused it and found myself easily lost in how much detail they provide for some characters, going as far as to create a timeline to help determine the ages of each characters. For a casual viewer of the site, I found it impressive.

Anyways, I really enjoyed TLJ. It was different, engaging, and I honestly didn't know when it was going to end. I appreciated the direction they took Luke's character--it was unexpected, and came off as more natural than the "legendary hero" figure we all thought he'd be portrayed as. Kylo and Rey were well-written, you can sense the conflict in both of them, and how Rey in particular is really trying to "find her place in all of this" and, I think, discover the balance in the force that Anakin or Luke seemed unable to do.

My only major criticism was Rose. Don't get me wrong, Kelly Marie Tran did a superb job in acting out Rose. I think the issue was how she was written--she seemed almost useless to me. Why did she need to be included? I felt like she could have done more as a character, but i'm not sure exactly what that would look like. I hope she plays a bigger role in IX.

 

[Manchee]

I think they want you to see Kylo as a whiny brat because that's the point of his character. In TFA it was annoying but now it just kind of made sense. Kylo Ren was put into a position of leadership by his boss and has no real experience leading snowball down a hill, much less a f*cking army as big as the First Order. Hell, Snoke even outright says that Kylo was supposed to be Darth Vader but instead is a whiny little kid. Vader, and most of the Imperial Command, were experienced, well trained, officers that many even fought in the Clone Wars. Hux basically inherited his position from his father and Kylo was plucked from Luke's academy, before even graduating, and told "you in charge boi." Hux at least has some training and experience behind him, but is still very much like Draco "My father will hear about this" Malfoy but with laser guns. The conflict between Hux being a military leader and Kylo being some ******* told he's in charge is super interesting and will no doubt be major point of interest in IX (Did everyone miss how Hux was about to blast Kylo while he unconscious in Snokes chamber?)

Kylo is a whiny brat because he was given a position he had to earn. This attitude will no doubt fracture the First Order, as we can certainly see how Hux has had enough of Kylo's sh*t already.

I see how his position being handed to him when he doesn't deserve it and being expected to be as great as Vader would make him so a little crazy trying to live up to the expectation, but he seems like a brat regardless of his position, lol. He kind of reminds me of Han in a way, but if Han didn't understand how to interact with other humans and expected everything to be handed to him. There's a bit of an arrogance to them both that I wish was more apparent to make them seem more like father and son, even though their relationship was never the best.

And did everyone forget that line about how Rose looked up Finn? Girl sounded like she'd have a poster up in her room with him all over it. Her love for him is probably like how teenage girls love rock stars. He's her hero and she got to meet him, gaze his ***, chill on a casino, almost get executed, and save his life. My guess her adoration love turned into real love as they got to know each other, especially since her character is just some mechanic that doesn't do much.

I honestly did forget about that- thanks for the reminder. Honestly to me, if that's really the reason she fell so hardcore in love with him that quickly, I wish they would have at least made it more obvious. I don't feel like they built up her character in that way enough for it to really show through the whole film.

 

[Klizcool]

I see how his position being handed to him when he doesn't deserve it and being expected to be as great as Vader would make him so a little crazy trying to live up to the expectation, but he seems like a brat regardless of his position, lol. He kind of reminds me of Han in a way, but if Han didn't understand how to interact with other humans and expected everything to be handed to him. There's a bit of an arrogance to them both that I wish was more apparent to make them seem more like father and son, even though their relationship was never the best.

I completely didn't notice but you're right. Kylo is very much like Han back in IV, but with the Force and a Lightsaber. Maybe it's a combination of genetics (two super rebellious parents) and Snoke stroking his ego even more with "you can totally be like your grandfather was." Until IX, or a Kylo Ren book, I can only speculate on Kylo's whiny attitude of course, but I will say that Adam Driver is doing a damn good job acting as Kylo. Any issue I really have with Kylo is his character, not the actor. I honestly hope they don't redeem him and Rey is forced to choose wether she kill Kylo, the only force sensitive that really gets her, or let him live to lead the First Order.

I honestly did forget about that- thanks for the reminder. Honestly to me, if that's really the reason she fell so hardcore in love with him that quickly, I wish they would have at least made it more obvious. I don't feel like they built up her character in that way enough for it to really show through the whole film.

Her sister, and also the only family she had since she was a slave, did just die in a bombing run less than 24 hours ago, and now she's most likely going to die. I'd call her characters mental state into question, making just about all of her choices questionable.

 

[RedJirachi]

Who do you think Snoke is?