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Starter Discussion & Thread

Discussion in 'Pokémon - Generation VII Discussion' started by CrusherTheFeraligatr, Feb 26, 2016.


What is you favorite Sun & Moon starter?

  1. Rowlet

    467 vote(s)
  2. Litten

    343 vote(s)
  3. Popplio

    270 vote(s)
Thread Status:
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  1. Disaster_Lord

    Disaster_Lord Sad Bayleef is Sad.

    Hyenas are actually cats, they are part of the feliformia family not the canine.

    So yes, hyenas aren't canines.
  2. Lucian947

    Lucian947 Gym Leader

    I also agree that a Dragon type on a starter, outside of Mega evolution, would throw any sort of balance between any starters and for an early gameplay as well;

    That being said the Fairy type doesn't have that problem because when viewed outside of it's relationship with Dragons it isn't that overpowering, with Fighting being the other big type that it has an edge over;

    Of course if a type is overpowering or not depends solely on the games, mainly how easy it is to find Pokemon of the particular type and how good are each of them, or if Pokemon of the types it is weak against are more common than the ones it is strong against;
    People seem to forget that this is a new region with new Pokemon, but most importantly a new way that the Pokemon are spread and found in the region; we may find few Fighting types in the begining with the better ones found only much later in the game as are usualy Dragons and at the same time more Poison and Steel types may be encountered sooner rather than later; a Poison and Steel type gym may prove difficult for a Fairy type especially when taking in consideration the very limited number of strong Fairy type Pokemon currently known
    (and we also don't know how many or how good the new Fairy type Pokemon will be);

    My point is that no matter the type , Fairy or Dragon or any other how stong or how weak it is, or how easy or difficult it makes the game it is mainly decided by how the games are designed;
    What types of Gyms you encounter, in what order, what type of Pokemon are available in a certain area, how easy it is to catch them, what moves do you have acces to (TMs and Level up ones) and the list goes on; I remember that the fact that I could catch a Riolu so soon in Black 2 didn't really help me that much in the begining of the game with other Pokemon being much more useful than it;

    I think most people seem to confuse some of the Pokemon that are already Fairy type(their stats and movepool) with the Fairy type in general;

    I can see Popplio gaining Fairy as secondary type and if Litten gains the Poison type it could act as sort of counter balance between the 2;

    And let's not forget the theory that Rowlett may get Steel as a secondary type making it immune to Poison and strong against Fairy or
    the theory that it may get Gound which would make it strong againt both Fire and Poison; it doesn't have to be a perfect triangle between the starters or any triangle for that matter; there was no triangle in gen 5 were only 1 starter got a secondary type;
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2016
  3. Nunn

    Nunn Pokermanz Meister!

    Hyenas are not cats. Feliforma are "cat-like" animals. Just related to cats. That's like saying a mongoose is a cat.
  4. Disaster_Lord

    Disaster_Lord Sad Bayleef is Sad.

    Fairy also resist dark, and let me tell you that dark is one of the most widespread types on Pokémon coverage moves in the entire franchise to a point that unless a Pokemon is rock, psychic or a non conventional body steel type the moves might be present on their level up set.

    Simply put fairy set of resistances in dark, fighting and dragon immunity can throw off the sense of balance down the curve.

    Look at whimsicott and azumarrill for stella switch in opportunities in singles, those types stapled on a starter can really bring down the difficulty curve.

    I know people want a Pokemon to be overly special, but fairy as a base type is a big stretch ingame balance wise for the stats of a 3 stage starter mon.
  5. clbgolden12

    clbgolden12 Alolan (and soon to be Galarian) trainer

    I doubt GameFreak really cares about all that stuff when deciding typings for a starter.
  6. Disaster_Lord

    Disaster_Lord Sad Bayleef is Sad.

    They first care about the design then the type, distribution as evidence by BW comes with balance vs habitats on a region.
  7. knightwolf09

    knightwolf09 Well-Known Member

    Fairy types are only called power cause of most of the commonly used megas that have Fairy typings. All of the commonly used fairies are only strong cause of their abilities. In fact most of them have abilities that either boost their moves or attack stats. Not to mention they're mostly a defensive type, so of course they can tank hits. You give that typing to a starter that can't have those abilities unless they're hidden, and all it'd have to rely on is the very few offensive moves to play off of. It has resistances to some types, so what? That doesn't mean it makes the games easier.
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2016
  8. clbgolden12

    clbgolden12 Alolan (and soon to be Galarian) trainer

    We don't even know much about the Pokemon distribution of this region. For all we know, it could be nearly bare of Dark, Dragon, and Fairy types.
  9. AlchemistAzure

    AlchemistAzure Well-Known Member

    true but many people still remember the Tyrany of Dragons. 5 Gens of Dragon Pokemon being nigh on unstoppable, save but by other Dragons...thus the irony
  10. Bariokie

    Bariokie rock dog

    If litten turned out to be fighting that'd make popplio rock, right?
  11. Bamboosle

    Bamboosle Well-Known Member

    Why? Because of the "type triangle"? Yeah no because they did that like once doesn't mean they have to go that way. And ice would work in that way too.

  12. Umbilical Noose

    Umbilical Noose Bonzo Nut

    Actually Fire is the last part of the triangle not Steel. Its Dragon-Fairy-Fire as Steel has advantage over both Dragon and Fairy types.

    Well technically in this case on Litten's final evo would have the unique typing. We already have a Water/Fairy Pokemon.

    Contentious. When we first encounter these non-rodent early route mons they are not much different to let's say Bidoof. And when these Pokemon get stronger on further routes there are better Pokemon around to catch most of the times.

    They're definitely not Canines though as the original poster said.
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2016
  13. BlahBlahJr.

    BlahBlahJr. Pokemon Scholar

    For all we know they could change up the typings a bit. In my own fan made game I balanced Fairy a bit.
    Fairy being weak to Ice type, which can give Ice type a bit more usage. We need more attention Ice type Pokémon. Fairy type also no long resisted Bug type, instead Bug type resisted Fairy. I never got that anyway, especially knowing a lot of fairy tales and legends. I also made it so that the moves Acid and Acid Spray affect Steel types and was super effective, thus making Fairy/Steel types horribly weak to it.

    But I digress, my point is that no matter what types they have for the starters final evolutions I am certain that it'll be good. I'd really like to see an early route Fairy type as well as Litten gain Poison type. I simply want the starters to have something either unique or rarely used. Water/Fairy or Water/Fighting are both rarely used typings, so Popplio could benefit from it. And many fans will be happy about it.

    I said "almost" unique typing.

    Grass/Flying is distributed among Hoppip, Skiploom, Jumpluff, Tropius and Shaymin(Sky). Which makes Rowlet a very rare and desirable typing.
    Fire/Poison has yet to be done before. It also gives the user immunity to Burn and Poison. Give Litten Limber or Vital Spirit as its hidden ability, then it would be immune to three special conditions.
    Water/Fairy, while it isn't unique it can still feel that way. Both Marill and Azumarill were given the typing only during 6th generation (granted Fairy type was introduced then), but with only one other Pokémon family having the typing, it would still feel very fresh to a lot of players.

    Then there is the speculation of Popplio becoming Water/Fighting. If that's true, that would also feel very unique. Poliwrath has been around since gen 1, but didn't even have Fighting type moves in the original game. And, Keldeo is a legendary, which makes it rarely an in-game Pokémon.

    These typings are exciting to me. If for whatever reason they go the route and make Litten Fire/Dark, that would also be pretty cool.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2016
  14. AlchemistAzure

    AlchemistAzure Well-Known Member

    Um, you may want to double check that. Steel only has a normal effectiveness against Dragon. This doesn't include <Primary Type/Dragon> or <Dragon/Secondary Type> to alter the balancing on type advantages/disadvantages.
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2016
  15. Erron Black

    Erron Black The Outlaw

    Steel is strong against Fairy and resists Dragon. Therefore, having an advantage over both Fairy and Dragon.
  16. Umbilical Noose

    Umbilical Noose Bonzo Nut

    Agreed. They tried to make Poison type worth using but it is still quite terrible. We need more for Poison and Bug types.

    But only Houndoom line has that typing so far and I want them to stay unique that way. Fire/Poison is better either way.

    By advantage I didn't mean Super Effective damage on Dragon type I was talking about the fact that Steel type Pokemon resist Dragon Type moves. While in the Fire-Fairy-Dragon triangle, Fire resist Fairy type moves while Dragon resists Fire type move. Its not as great say Grass-Fire-Water but still something worth noting.

    Edit: Greninja'd
  17. Erron Black

    Erron Black The Outlaw

    They'd still be unique either way? It'll literally only be 3-4 Pokemon with that typing. I don't see how that won't make Houndoom no longer have a unique typing.
  18. Umbilical Noose

    Umbilical Noose Bonzo Nut

    No not really. Unique typings are unique to a Pokemon or sometimes evolutionary line. Like Empoleon has a unique typing but Lucario doesn't cause it shares the typing with Cobalion.
  19. Erron Black

    Erron Black The Outlaw

    So because literally only 2 Pokemon have the same typing it makes it no longer unique?

    So Reshiram no longer has a unique typing because it shares it's typing with M-Zard X?

    They're still unique, maybe not AS unique as they used to be, but when there's only a couple Pokemon with a certain typing, I'd certainly say they are unique.
  20. Pokemon Fan

    Pokemon Fan Knuckle Trainer

    That wouldn't work though, it would just give another reason for non-Ice types to carry a Ice type move. Ice has always been great offensively but having only a single resistance (and to itself at that) and four weaknesses is what keeps actual ice types from getting much usage (compared to having a non-Ice type simply carry an Ice move for coverage). Aside from STAB most pokemon gain little from being an Ice type.

    I would say if one wants to fix the Ice type they either need to remove one of its weaknesses or add a resistance.
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