Starter Discussion & Thread

[Aromatic Mist]

I kind of hope that Popplio remains pure Water since it would have the less amount of weakness of the three starters.

Least Weaknesses =/= Best Typing though, it matters what those weaknesses are, and the lack of a second STAB is sorely missed.

Also, 3/7 Grass starters (Rowlet is accounted for) have been pure-typed, and 1/7 (Litten not accounted for) Fire starters are pure. If Popplio remains pure, it'll mean that more Water types are pure than dual-type (4/7), which isn't really fair for Water fans because they've had to have the same typing 4 times.

 

[Alexander18]

Least Weaknesses =/= Best Typing though, it matters what those weaknesses are, and the lack of a second STAB is sorely missed.

Also, 3/7 Grass starters (Rowlet is accounted for) have been pure-typed, and 1/7 (Litten not accounted for) Fire starters are pure. If Popplio remains pure, it'll mean that more Water types are pure than dual-type (4/7), which isn't really fair for Water fans because they've had to have the same typing 4 times.

Maybe if it was Water/Ground, Water/Electric or Water/Flying then that be fine.

 

[Nahiri]

Maybe if it was Water/Ground, Water/Electric or Water/Flying then that be fine.

Except none of those would really make sense?

Water/Flying would hurt the most, considering we have at leaat 2 fairly easy-to-obtain lines with the typing... And it's a 4x weakness to Electric, which seems to be pretty common in Alola.

 

[Alexander18]

Except none of those would really make sense?

Water/Flying would hurt the most, considering we have at leaat 2 fairly easy-to-obtain lines with the typing... And it's a 4x weakness to Electric, which seems to be pretty common in Alola.

Swampert is 4x weak to Grass so I don't see the point about worrying about 4x weaknesses.

 

[Aromatic Mist]

Maybe if it was Water/Ground, Water/Electric or Water/Flying then that be fine.

From a 'you want it' standpoint or a 'this is the best type' standpoint? Because if it's the latter, I'd add Water/Fairy to that list as it only has 3 weaknesses, retains all the resistances/immunities of a Fairy and a Water-Type minus Steel, which becomes neutral, gives it an amazing STAB combo, and generally both types fit Popplio stats-wise due to it seeming like a slow, bulky special attacker.

Although I really can't see Popplio become Water/Electric or Water/Flying, and Water/Ground just doesn't seem to fit it either, but more than the first two.

 

[Disaster_Lord]

I stand by my original prediction.

Grass flying, fire rock, water fighting.

Water fire grass.

Fighting rock flying.

Not saying it's a norm, just saying it fits the species both from myths and species abilities, also the types are perfectly balanced for offensive and defensive points of views, well fire rock is an oddball defensively as resistance to flying and fairy spam are good competitively they aren't really great ingame, water fighting is godlike in competitive and ingame judging from poliwrath and Keldeo, without pulling an azumarrill on switch in opportunities.

 

[Alexander18]

Popplio doesn't really have the design to become a Water/Fighting duo. I could see it being Water/Ice due but I prefer a pure Water type. However, Water/Fairy seems to be a thing speculated here.

 

[Aromatic Mist]

I'm sorry, but Popplio is seemingly a specially orientated 'mon and seens to be based off of the performing sea lion trope over an irl, realistic sea lion, so I feel like Water/Fighting isn't happening. Although it's Evos can turn that around\('w')/

 

[Nahiri]

Swampert is 4x weak to Grass so I don't see the point about worrying about 4x weaknesses.

See here's the thing though - the only other water/ground combo we had was Quagsire, Whiscash, Gastrodon, and Seismitoad. Water/flying has Gyarados, Swanna, Pelipper, and Mantine lines. If you wanna say before 4th gen, that still leaves 2 water/ground vs 3 water/flying.

Throw in the 4x weaknesses - grass and electric - and it becomes a whole different ballgame. Before gen 4, we had Pikachu, Plusle/Minun, Electrike, Magnemite, Voltorb, and Chinchou vs Treecko, Seedot, Lotad, Shroomish, Cacne, Oddish, Lileep, Tropius, and Roselia.

Taking into account which Pokemon are more common with trainers than others - Plusle/Minun, Seedot, etc vs Treecko, Pikachu, and Tropius - and how many of the STAB moves each can learn or usually has - Seedot not getting very many until it becomes a late-level Nuzleaf/Shiftry and Electrike only really getting Spark and Shock Wave - it's pretty safe to say Swampert had a slight advantage over Pelipper or Gyarados.

Plus we didn't have a grass-specialist as far as gyms/elite go.

I don't think we'll be getting a water/flying starter for a little while.

 

[clbgolden12]

Popplio doesn't really have the design to become a Water/Fighting duo. I could see it being Water/Ice due but I prefer a pure Water type. However, Water/Fairy seems to be a thing speculated here.

Torchic, Chespin, and Tepig didn't look like they'd turn Fighting-type either. Sometimes base forms aren't really a good way to tell the final typing.

As for the types on the site, I'm kind of indifferent to them. On one hand, the types didn't really apply to any other new Pokémon that were revealed close to when they surfaced (we JUST got a Fighting and Ground type, unless you count Zygarde but even then he wasn't put on the site until this month). But on the other hand, already putting the starter final types up seems very weird given we probably won't get them until near release. I honestly wouldn't mind either of the typings (unless the Fighting is meant for Litten), but we'll have to wait and see if they're true.

I'm sorry, but Popplio is seemingly a specially orientated 'mon and seens to be based off of the performing sea lion trope over an irl, realistic sea lion, so I feel like Water/Fighting isn't happening. Although it's Evos can turn that around\('w')/

He could turn into some type of performing fighter to still kind of keep the trope.

 

[Aromatic Mist]

A 'performing fighter' still wouldn't explain why it's special orientated, though. And to a lesser degree, why it's slow.


TBH, I feel like its human-like movements are a reference to the selkie, a mythological fey-like creature who cast their seal skin upon land to resemble humans. Seeing as Popplio is mentioned to be a good swimmer, but a bit clumsy/slow on land (sorry if that's wrong, I haven't read the Popplio section in a while), it may be referencing the selkie, and it may become more adapt to land life as it evolves. This is why I feel that Water/Fairy is a strong option for Popplio.

 

[clbgolden12]

A 'performing fighter' still wouldn't explain why it's special orientated, though. And to a lesser degree, why it's slow.

Not all Fighting-types have to be physical oriented, tho.

 

[Aromatic Mist]

Not all Fighting-types have to be physical oriented, tho.

Nearly all of them are though, the only noticeable ones that aren't are Lucario, based off of aura and is mixed rather than special, and Keldo, who is a Sword of Justice, which has a member for each offensive and defensive stat anyway.

Also, it's also how it is themed, you can't just have a fighter themed Pokémon as in a 'hit with this body part' fighter and then give it a special-based stat spread.

 

[knightwolf09]

Not all Fighting-types have to be physical oriented, tho.

They all kind of are, cause there's only one special oriented fighter and even then he's only a mixed attacker. Plus there are very little special fighting moves and, I doubt they'll create a bunch of new ones just for one pokemon.

 

[Aromatic Mist]

They all kind of are, cause there's only one special oriented fighter and even then he's only a mixed attacker. Plus there are very little special fighting moves and, I doubt they'll create a bunch of new ones just for one pokemon.

If know I'm arguing against fighting Popplio, but:

1) Lucario and Keldeo are both specially orientated, Infernape is mixed, and Toxicroak is also seen going mixed, although the last two are probably due to their primary types.

2) They could, even just Aura Sphere/Focus Blast + 1 New special Fighting Move would be enough for a Water/Fighting's movepool.

 

[2dtyplosion]

If know I'm arguing against fighting Popplio, but:

1) Lucario and Keldeo are both specially orientated, Infernape is mixed, and Toxicroak is also seen going mixed, although the last two are probably due to their primary types.

2) They could, even just Aura Sphere/Focus Blast + 1 New special Fighting Move would be enough for a Water/Fighting's movepool.

I agree. They seem to be adding a ton of new abilities for all these new pokemon. I don't see how they wouldn't at least add a few new moves.

 

[Disaster_Lord]

I'm sorry, but Popplio is seemingly a specially orientated 'mon and seens to be based off of the performing sea lion trope over an irl, realistic sea lion, so I feel like Water/Fighting isn't happening. Although it's Evos can turn that around\('w')/

Sea lions have been proven to die fighting on their first fight, they gave no order, they fight till they bleed out and crush pups along the way, they have no technique is just the bigger one that bites more and isn't bitten the most wins. I agree seals don't fit the fighting archetype... They are pretty much dark type with that.

Also the sea lion family line is confirmed to rape penguins independently of their feeding needs, it's a learned behavior some males of a sea lion line has been developing for 10 years, Mount penguins to use as masturbation tools, often killing the penguin in the progress after massive damage dealt to the penguin from the forced penetration and mounting even if the sea lion didn't eat the penguin, also sea lions learned to not kill the penguin before mounting it...The implications of that are grim at best.

Seal on the other side are known to gain experience in battle and use different fighting styles against different sized opponents after several mating seasons, seals also have ritualistic behavior both before and after battling, something very rare in nature.

There are fighting type moves, and special sound based moves given that hooded seals, Elephant seals and even the musically gifted Leopard seals are known for their loud vocalizations, to the point elephant seals are as loud as a chainsaw or a Leopard seal song can be heard from a mile away.

They can make special fighting types with flippers dude XD, watch elephant seals fight and tell me that isn't close combat XD or that aura sphere isn't a ball like move to be flung.

 

[Erron Black]

Sea lions have been proven to die fighting on their first fight, they gave no order, they fight till they bleed out and crush pups along the way, they have no technique is just the bigger one that bites more and isn't bitten the most wins. I agree seals don't fit the fighting archetype... They are pretty much dark type with that.

Also the sea lion family line is confirmed to rape penguins independently of their feeding needs, it's a learned behavior some males of a sea lion line has been developing for 10 years, Mount penguins to use as masturbation tools, often killing the penguin in the progress after massive damage dealt to the penguin from the forced penetration and mounting even if the sea lion didn't eat the penguin, also sea lions learned to not kill the penguin before mounting it...The implications of that are grim at best.

Seal on the other side are known to gain experience in battle and use different fighting styles against different sized opponents after several mating seasons, seals also have ritualistic behavior both before and after battling, something very rare in nature.

There are fighting type moves, and special sound based moves given that hooded seals, Elephant seals and even the musically gifted Leopard seals are known for their loud vocalizations, to the point elephant seals are as loud as a chainsaw or a Leopard seal song can be heard from a mile away.

They can make special fighting types with flippers dude XD, watch elephant seals fight and tell me that isn't close combat XD or that aura sphere isn't a ball like move to be flung.

I highly doubt they'd use those two themes in Pokemon...

Plus it seems Popplio only cares about entertaining via bubbles and singing, neither of which seem to imply a fighting type. Plus they'd have to pull a Feebas into Milotic for that to make sense at this point.

 

[Nahiri]

/snip

So by this logic, lions breathe fire and there are balloons that take you away to Hell.... Also, was the r**e section REALLY necessary? thanks for the anxiety.

 

[Aromatic Mist]

Sea lions have been proven to die fighting on their first fight, they gave no order, they fight till they bleed out and crush pups along the way, they have no technique is just the bigger one that bites more and isn't bitten the most wins. I agree seals don't fit the fighting archetype... They are pretty much dark type with that.

Also the sea lion family line is confirmed to rape penguins independently of their feeding needs, it's a learned behavior some males of a sea lion line has been developing for 10 years, Mount penguins to use as masturbation tools, often killing the penguin in the progress after massive damage dealt to the penguin from the forced penetration and mounting even if the sea lion didn't eat the penguin, also sea lions learned to not kill the penguin before mounting it...The implications of that are grim at best.

Seal on the other side are known to gain experience in battle and use different fighting styles against different sized opponents after several mating seasons, seals also have ritualistic behavior both before and after battling, something very rare in nature.

There are fighting type moves, and special sound based moves given that hooded seals, Elephant seals and even the musically gifted Leopard seals are known for their loud vocalizations, to the point elephant seals are as loud as a chainsaw or a Leopard seal song can be heard from a mile away.

They can make special fighting types with flippers dude XD, watch elephant seals fight and tell me that isn't close combat XD or that aura sphere isn't a ball like move to be flung.

Combat is done physically though, when Popplio's stats suggest otherwise. You're completely missing my point. You're saying that Popplio will most likely be fighting because of the behaviour of its IRL counterpart, whereas I'm saying that if it did reflect that, it'd at least have something resembling a decent Attack stat , which we've seen it doesn't. And whilst It may be due to natures/IVs, they have a much smaller impact at the lower levels, to the point that they only cause 1-3ish fluctuations.

There's also the fact that Popplio is based off of a performing sea lion, and not a wild one. And while that may change, I'm purely predicting off of Popplio itself.

There's plenty of ball moves Popplio could use besides Aura Sphere, though, so it's mediocre evidence at best.