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Starter Discussion & Thread

What is you favorite Sun & Moon starter?

  • Rowlet

    Votes: 467 43.2%
  • Litten

    Votes: 343 31.8%
  • Popplio

    Votes: 270 25.0%

  • Total voters
    1,080
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I be alright if it was Grass/Flying, Fire/Dark and Water/Fighting. After all, Kalos had Grass/Fighting, Fire/Psychic and Water/Dark. Each of them both have types that don't counter their weakness to the other pokemon but has another advantage over the pokemon that is weak to them.
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
Forgive me. I thought mermaids and sirens are the same things, so I use them inter changeably.

In any case, I guess what I meant when I said "mermaid" was more akin to the "siren"

Mermaids and Sirens are completely different things. A mermaid has the torso of a woman, but has her legs replaced with a fish tail. Sirens are are half-woman, half-bird, with various depictions showing them having wings in different ways. The only thing they really have in common is that they're both part woman.
 

Disaster_Lord

Sad Bayleef is Sad.
Forgive me. I thought mermaids and sirens are the same things, so I use them inter changeably.

In any case, I guess what I meant when I said "mermaid" was more akin to the "siren"

A common mistake, in Spanish Siren and mermaid are both called by the name Sirena.

But yes, sirens are birdlike human abominations that lure men to their demise to fees on their corpses.

Mermaids are more widespread as fish tailed people, and for some fish tailed dogs as some countries refer to seals and sea lions.

I be alright if it was Grass/Flying, Fire/Dark and Water/Fighting. After all, Kalos had Grass/Fighting, Fire/Psychic and Water/Dark. Each of them both have types that don't counter their weakness to the other pokemon but has another advantage over the pokemon that is weak to them.

Actually flying fighting rock is the other triangle, as dark isn't SE vs flying.
 

.Aerodactyl.

Well-Known Member
I thought the half-birds were Harpies? Aren't Sirens water beings that sing sailors to their demise?

Now I'm EXTRA confused. I think some mythologies use these terms interchangeably.
 

Disaster_Lord

Sad Bayleef is Sad.
I thought the half-birds were Harpies? Aren't Sirens water beings that sing sailors to their demise?

Now I'm EXTRA confused. I think some mythologies use these terms interchangeably.

Harpies are other kind of abomination, they have a different upbringing. They where sent by deities to punish people, they also smell terrible and have horrible screeches, Japanese dudes are the one who made the modern harpy sing good and be cute.

Sirens live in a completely different habitat and are often depicted with atrofied wings, it depends on the myth. They where nymphs cursed by Ceres to become this kind of beasts stranded on rock formations, they had some mystical abilities.


Japanese folklore also has mermaids that give immortality if you eat them XD
 
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Actually flying fighting rock is the other triangle, as dark isn't SE vs flying.

I know that. I was talking about the Kalos starters. With Grass/Flying, Fire/Dark and Water/Fairy, the Alola starters can only use their primary to do super effective on types that they have advantage of.
 

.Aerodactyl.

Well-Known Member
Harpies are other kind of abomination, they have a different upbringing.

Sirens live in a completely different habitat and are often depicted with atrofied wings, it depends on the myth.

The wiki I just looked at I think helped clarify... I think I have the more Roman definition of a siren as they are more linked to the sea. But mermaid legends also link to sirens, and sirens to harpies and mermaids... So they are all kind of interchangesble, at least from a Pokémon lens, I think.

Anyway, I mean the siren/mermaid legends of singing beings that try and drown sailors specifically.
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
I thought the half-birds were Harpies? Aren't Sirens water beings that sing sailors to their demise?

Now I'm EXTRA confused. I think some mythologies use these terms interchangeably.

Disaster_Lord explained it for the most part already, but I thought that I would add that Sirens are indeed known for luring sailors to their demise, but they would do it from a rocky island, not the water. Harpies are another type of bird-woman entirely.
 

Julia Artemis

Well-Known Member
I wonder if they'll show the final evos on Tuesday. Guessing the chances are very remote. Maybe they'll the second stage of the starters though. Hopefully the leaks get either confirmed or debunked soon, since talking about it without any proof is kind of pointless. Though I'm hoping it's false.
 

Disaster_Lord

Sad Bayleef is Sad.
OK for all its worth a Japanese mermaid would be cool, specially since in myth they HATE humans for hunting them down.

Won't fit much with Popplio, but it's a cool concept nonetheless.
 
Just to chime in on the siren part, they've oft been chucked together with mermaids (mermaids are often given their enchanted voice) or are completely stripped of their bird-like appearance and are only defined by an affinity for water and their voices. That's what everyone's referring to when they say they want Popplio to be a siren, not the accurate, original definition of nasty bird ladies.

Wow, I think you interpreted this as an attack... Really it's just my perspective. I totally think it's fine that others see it as more likely to be fairy. Really! By no means do you have to be convinced of my logic! My opinion is subjective! If I came across as harsh, I apologize, and if I misinterpreted some of your points, I also apologize.

Agility is definitely a general Pokémon thing, or rather, a thing about fighting in general, but I think it also pairs well with the fighting type and is seen in a lot of fighting types. You also have agility associated with a lot of flying types, but not, say, bugs. In my head, there really isn't a big stretch between a trained athletic disciplined fighter and an acrobat- especially if the circus theme grows into the strong man motif. I see acrobatics as complimentary and essential to many fighting styles like martial arts.

I really, really, really think it is strongly based on a clown. Not even saying it will stay a clown per say, but I think it will keep a circus motif. It has the big red nose, the frilled clown collar, it's snout is reminiscent of a clown hat and even the animal basis- seal- has strong circus performance associations in the exact way popplio is being presented. He's a performer, definitely, but I think he's a specifically a clown.

I know you said performer to performer, but that's too broad of a classification system in my eyes, and not typical of starter designs. In my opinion, they are more specific. Greninja started a ninja and stayed a ninja...he didn't start as a samurai, change to an assassin and then go ninja because they are all "rogues" or "fighters". Animals bases are often mixed, so I'm not arguing against it taking on another animals traits like Chespin does. I'm talking strictly design inspiration.

I also don't think that sirens, in most folk lore, are seen as "entertainers" and "performers", more so that they are seen as dangerous and predators that use their voice as a lure. They are captivating, but not for the purposes of our entertainment, not because they are fun and silly, and not because they want to perform. It's because they want to drown others. And I just don't think that fits Popplio as he's been shown.

But, I could be TOTALLY wrong,and if I am, I will be the first to admit it and voice my surprise. And again, I'm not trying to argue that fighting IS gonna happen or IS most likely, I just think this the most likely of the two. There is certainly room and reason for speculation on both sides :) I'm not even saying it can't become fairy...which I can see why that would be confusing when I say disarming voice =/= fairy. I just think it LESS likely than fighting specifically. I certainly think between ice and fairy that fairy is more likely, for example. I also think a Selkie inspiration, regardless of typing, highly unlikely as well as a mermaid inspiration (but I do LOVE mermaids and have wanted a mermaid Pokémon).

I'm going to end this here because I hate to be an arse, but it's 11 for me and I'm tired :p

But just to attend to the first part, I didn't interpret that as an attack, its just that I have an aggressive writing style. Sorry if I made you think you offended me or something :s
 
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Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
Just to chime in on the siren part, they've oft been chucked together with mermaids (mermaids are often given their enchanted voice) or are completely stripped of their bird-like appearance and are only defined by an affinity for water and their voices. That's what everyone's referring to when they say they want Popplio to be a siren, not the accurate, original definition of nasty bird ladies.

I've actually never heard of siren's being considered mermaid-like before, but then again, I don't much about modern interpretations, only the original mythological appearances.
 
I've actually never heard of siren's being considered mermaid-like before, but then again, I don't much about modern interpretations, only the original mythological appearances.

Mermaids are often given enchanted voices due to absorbing with elements of the similar siren myth, which has half-human ladies trying to kill you via outing you in. Sirens has become a synonym, basically, for mermaids.
 

Gizmoa

Well-Known Member
Mermaids are often given enchanted voices due to absorbing with elements of the similar siren myth, which has half-human ladies trying to kill you via outing you in. Sirens has become a synonym, basically, for mermaids.

Depends on the person and what stories they grew up with. For me, sirens are the original ugly mind controlling man eating monsters with beautiful voices as described in the iliad.
 
Depends on the person and what stories they grew up with. For me, sirens are the original ugly mind controlling man eating monsters with beautiful voices as described in the iliad.

If was referring to modern day, western-English media in general which seems to be content with beautifying everything, even if they keep its original deadliness. Shame fairies didn't get to keep theirs, I'd of looooooved to see Tinkerbell flay a man's skin :p


Also, I'm writing s list of level-up movepool guesses for the most theorised types (Grass/Flying, Fire/Dark, Fire/Ground, Fire/Fighting, Water/Fairy, and Water/Fighting) and it got me wondering. Did we ever get confirmation on each starter's beginning moves? We knew about Leafage/Ember/Water Gun from the start, and E3 showed Popplio has Pound and Growl, and Litten has Scratch, but do we know anything else?
 
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Nahiri

Selesnya Guild
If was referring to modern day, western-English media in general which seems to be content with beautifying everything, even if they keep its original deadliness. Shame fairies didn't get to keep theirs, I'd of looooooved to see Tinkerbell flay a man's skin :p


Also, I'm writing s list of level-up movepool guesses for the most theorised types (Grass/Flying, Fire/Dark, Fire/Ground, Fire/Fighting, Water/Fairy, and Water/Fighting) and it got me wondering. Did we ever get confirmation on each starter's beginning moves? We knew about Leafage/Ember/Water Gun from the start, and E3 showed Popplio has Tackle and Growl, and Litten has Scratch, but do we know anything else?

My best guess would be Litten with Scratch and Leer while Rowlet has Tackle and Growl like Popplio (even though Scratch is also super plausible)
 

clbgolden12

Alolan (and soon to be Galarian) trainer
If was referring to modern day, western-English media in general which seems to be content with beautifying everything, even if they keep its original deadliness. Shame fairies didn't get to keep theirs, I'd of looooooved to see Tinkerbell flay a man's skin :p


Also, I'm writing s list of level-up movepool guesses for the most theorised types (Grass/Flying, Fire/Dark, Fire/Ground, Fire/Fighting, Water/Fairy, and Water/Fighting) and it got me wondering. Did we ever get confirmation on each starter's beginning moves? We knew about Leafage/Ember/Water Gun from the start, and E3 showed Popplio has Pound and Growl, and Litten has Scratch, but do we know anything else?
After that Japanese trailer we can presume that Rowlet can learn Razor Leaf (and I think Peck was mentioned on the Japan site?) and Litten Fire Fang, but that's about it.

My best guess would be Litten with Scratch and Leer while Rowlet has Tackle and Growl like Popplio (even though Scratch is also super plausible)
What about Pound and Tail Whip? Pound could work for Rowlet, as Tail Whip for Litten.
 

Robotnikthedrap

Well-Known Member
Here ya go, SPOILER WARNING for those that don't wish to see (can't get the tag to work):
SPOILERS ABOUND

To pontificate upon said putative evolutions, I'm beginning to ponder if the succeeding evolutions to Rowlet, Litten, and Poplio will progress more naturally between the aforementioned, or their destined final evolutions. Such an example is Braixen's stronger resemblance to Delphox rather than Fennekin; in reference, of course, to design similarity.

One such practical application to this train of thought is in consideration to Litten. Alleged concept's legitimacy aside (and, despite the sweet sensitivity of Litten's fan base, the very real possibility still exists for it to make the transition to bipedal), if it were to continue as a quadruped upon evolving once, what then is the probability that it may stand upright? Alternatively, if Litten were to rise to it's hind legs during it's initial transformation, does anyone muse at the thought of it returning to all fours when it was to reach it's pinnacle? Purely in terms of design and concept, such a thing would be feasible, albeit difficult to imagine.

Hmm... I do not believe that either situation is very commonplace among starter designs; so typically: 2 leg>2 leg>2 leg; 4 leg>4 leg>4 leg; 4 leg>2 leg>2 leg. The only examples to the contrary, it would seem, are Typhlosion and Samurott, if I've not made an erroneous error in memory.

Although both seem to have a reputation (in description, as it were) to alternate how they stand situationally, Typhlosion, in most official depictions, stands on two legs following purely quadrupedal creatures, while Samurott comfortably rests on four legs, despite of course, evolving from bipedal figures. I suppose that makes them out of the ordinary exceptions... perhaps one could even say that regression in stature may conflict with the underlying principles of evolution, what an odd concept. Does anyone else think thoroughly of this thesis?
 
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I made guesses for what moves I think will be in the starter's level up movepools:

Rowlet (Presuming a Grass/Flying Final Evo)

Tackle
Growl or Leer
Leafage (Confirmed)
Razor Leaf (Confirmed)
Magical Leaf
Leaf Blade
Leaf Storm
Peck (Confirmed)
Wing Attack
Air Cutter
Air Slash
Brave Bird
Feather Dance
Double Kick

Litten (Presuming a Fire/Dark Evo)

Scratch (Confirmed)
Tail Whip or Leer
Ember (Confirmed)
Fire Fang (Confirmed)
Flame Charge
Flamethrower
Flare Blitz
Incinerate
Fire Spin
Bite
Pursuit
Crunch
Sucker Punch (Especially if Heel-Based)
Feint Attack (Especially if Heel-Based)
Nasty Plot
Fury Swipes

If The Leak Is True:

Circle Throw
Seismic Toss
Storm Throw
Heat Crash

Popplio (Presuming a Water/Fairy Evo)

Pound (Confirmed)
Growl (Confirmed)
Water Gun (Confirmed)
Bubble
Bubble Beam
Whirlpool
Hydro Pump
Brine
Water Pulse
Disarming Voice (Confirmed)
Dazzling Gleam
Draining Kiss
Charm
Sweet Kiss
Acrobatics
Sing
Perish Song
Echoed Voice
Round

Popplio (Presuming a Water/Fighting Evo)

Pound (Confirmed)
Growl (Confirmed)
Water Gun (Confirmed)
Bubble
Bubble Beam
Whirlpool
Hydro Pump
Brine
Water Pulse
Aura Sphere
Focus Blast
Counter
Revenge
Disarming Voice (Confirmed)
Focus Energy
Sing
Echoed Voice
Round
 

clbgolden12

Alolan (and soon to be Galarian) trainer
I made guesses for what moves I think will be in the starter's level up movepools:

Rowlet (Presuming a Grass/Flying Final Evo)

Tackle
Growl or Leer
Leafage (Confirmed)
Razor Leaf (Confirmed)
Magical Leaf
Leaf Blade
Leaf Storm
Peck (Confirmed)
Wing Attack
Air Cutter
Air Slash
Brave Bird
Feather Dance
Double Kick

Litten (Presuming a Fire/Dark Evo)

Scratch (Confirmed)
Tail Whip or Leer
Ember (Confirmed)
Fire Fang (Confirmed)
Flame Charge
Flamethrower
Flare Blitz
Incinerate
Fire Spin
Bite
Pursuit
Crunch
Sucker Punch (Especially if Heel-Based)
Feint Attack (Especially if Heel-Based)
Nasty Plot
Fury Swipes

If The Leak Is True:

Circle Throw
Seismic Toss
Storm Throw
Heat Crash

Popplio (Presuming a Water/Fairy Evo)

Pound (Confirmed)
Growl (Confirmed)
Water Gun (Confirmed)
Bubble
Bubble Beam
Whirlpool
Hydro Pump
Brine
Water Pulse
Disarming Voice (Confirmed)
Dazzling Gleam
Draining Kiss
Charm
Sweet Kiss
Acrobatics
Sing
Perish Song
Echoed Voice
Round

Popplio (Presuming a Water/Fighting Evo)

Pound (Confirmed)
Growl (Confirmed)
Water Gun (Confirmed)
Bubble
Bubble Beam
Whirlpool
Hydro Pump
Brine
Water Pulse
Aura Sphere
Focus Blast
Counter
Revenge
Disarming Voice (Confirmed)
Focus Energy
Sing
Echoed Voice
Round
Was Scratch confirmed for Litten? I don't see it on Serebii's New Pokémon page.
 
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